Buying and logs...

[James331]

Not everyone is the OP.

A few days after receiving the logs and FAA CD on my plane I made a deposit, shortly there after I made trip over to see it, within a week a prebuy was done and the seller had a wad of cash transferred into his bank account.

If the seller would have given me static on my simple request for logs, I probably would have needed the price to be knocked down further for it to be worth my time to head over, I also would have kept looking while I was waiting.

YMMV

 

[dtuuri]

A few days after receiving the logs and FAA CD on my plane I made a deposit, shortly there after I made trip over to see it, within a week a prebuy was done and the seller had a wad of cash transferred into his bank account.

You could have made a deposit anyway. I doubt you ponied up a deposit based on what you saw in the logs, more based on what you saw in the ad, right? If it was a retractable, how would you know there was no prior damage (gear up) if there was no log entry? Or the prop got bent while the engine was running? As a buyer, I'd be more interested in whether the logs are complete, via phone, and then review them when I get there to inspect the plane. Nice looking logs don't tell me the owner installed automotive wire connectors when he re-did the instrument panel by himself. On the other hand, poor penmanship and spelling errors on the log pages don't necessarily indicate an unairworthy airplane.

I'm suspecting here, could it be that the persons most disinterested in seeing copies of every log page before putting down a deposit are the ones with an A&P license and therefore most qualified to interpret what's in them?

dtuuri

 

[James331]

You could have made a deposit anyway. I doubt you ponied up a deposit based on what you saw in the logs, more based on what you saw in the ad, right? If it was a retractable, how would you know there was no prior damage (gear up) if there was no log entry? Or the prop got bent while the engine was running? As a buyer, I'd be more interested in whether the logs are complete, via phone, and then review them when I get there to inspect the plane. Nice looking logs don't tell me the owner installed automotive wire connectors when he re-did the instrument panel by himself. On the other hand, poor penmanship and spelling errors on the log pages don't necessarily indicate an unairworthy airplane.

I'm suspecting here, could it be that the persons most disinterested in seeing copies of every log page before putting down a deposit are the ones with an A&P license and therefore most qualified to interpret what's in them?

dtuuri

The add it like 20%

Talking to the seller is great, but it like things in writing.

I'm not going to give a deposit unless I'm 90% sure I'm buying and have done all the due diligence I can, I REALLY don't want to have to take some bum to court or something to get my money back when it turns out his cream puff is a turd.

Having good logs that go back a ways is important.

Matching the stuff in the logs to what the FAA CD says is important.

Matching the above two to anything a NTSB search brings up is important.

Matching the logs and FAA CD to the visible mods and seller described mods, making sure there are 337s and STCs in there also important.

It just helps weed out some people, and keeps me from burning cash and time just to go down there, look at the paperwork and go home, and I can do all the above for the cost of the FAA CD and some of my time from the comfort of my home.

Also it's a sign of how honest the buyer is, if you give me static over sending logs, or having my APIA do a prebuy, that's screams red flag all day and me and my cash are happy just walk over to the next guy who actually wants to sell his plane.

The plane I bought was a RG, however I want too concerned about a gear up on the runway, more like a gear down on water

 

[fiveoboy01]

The OP collects logs like seashells and hasn't bought yet.

dtuuri

This is a large cash outlay. Cost of the airplane, insurance, hangar rent, prebuy, costs to travel and bring the airplane home... It's all a significant financial commitment as I'm sure you know. I could do something else with the cash, like invest it, buy a cool sports car, take a half dozen real exotic vacations... etc ad nauseum. Draining a good chunk of my bank account in one fell swoop isn't something I'm taking lightly.

So, excuse me if I'm going to approach my purchase in the manner which I see fit, rather than the way a faceless internet poster thinks I should do it. I'm not "collecting logs for the fun of it".

 

[EdFred]

So basically, I'm getting the mom answer of "because I said so."

But if seeing the first 5 years of logs saying oil change, annual, oil change, annual, oil change annual, oil change annual that happened 50+ years ago is such a sticking point, you are probably going to ****, whine, and moan about a paint chip on the vert stab and want a $15k discount for a paint job - and it's probably best if you don't waste my time.

"Oh, there was a low cylinder compression in 1963, you need to take $5000 off the price."
"Uh, those cylinders aren't even in the plane anymore."
"So!?!? I want my discount, I'm important!"

FYI: I actually flew my plane to the buyer's A&P of choice for inspection.

 

[fiveoboy01]

Have whatever opinion you want, even if it's incorrect

 

[EdFred]

Have whatever opinion you want, even if it's incorrect

How many planes have you actually bought?

 

[fiveoboy01]

Human-carrying airplanes, none yet

 

[OkieAviator]

So, excuse me if I'm going to approach my purchase in the manner which I see fit, rather than the way a faceless internet poster thinks I should do it.

I don't think this post went the way you thought it was going to. You probably expected everyone to jump on the bandwagon ready to tar and feather the two sellers you referred to. Seems you got fairly abrasive when people challenged your initial perception.

Here's my faceless internet opinion. Who cares?.. As the buyer it's ultimately your decision on what you want, and if you don't get the information you're seeking then move on. Be aware that the other parties (and faceless internet posters) are going to have a different viewpoint from you and arguing about it on the internet isn't going to change that.

When I was looking for a plane I never asked to see the logs, because they're not overly important to me. My process was ask about airframe and engine time, avionics and interior, outside condition and if there was any damage or known problems. I would then ask about asking price and any other questions that may have come up. You can narrow it down to a few choices at that point, the review the logs during prebuy but that would still be fairly low on my assessment, corrosion and overall condition take the lead. If they were lying or hiding anything it's up to you to find that during prebuy. After all that is done I'll negotiate on price.

 

[fiveoboy01]

I don't think this post went the way you thought it was going to. You probably expected everyone to jump on the bandwagon ready to tar and feather the two sellers you referred to. Seems you got fairly abrasive when people challenged your initial perception.

Well, I actually didn't expect it go to any certain way and I definitely wasn't looking for an "attaboy" bash session on the sellers. It was an honest observation as I really did not know people had any issue with a buyer wanting to see the logs first thing. It's a message board, and they are known to have opinionated people throughout. I'm just fine with posters whom disagree... it happens. If people want to make assumptions about me and what type of buyer/person I am from a few postings here, that's their right, but I won't get upset about it. If I took it too seriously, I'd be insane by now. This board is just one of MANY I frequent

Here's my faceless internet opinion. Who cares?.. As the buyer it's ultimately your decision on what you want, and if you don't get the information you're seeking then move on. Be aware that the other parties (and faceless internet posters) are going to have a different viewpoint from you and arguing about it on the internet isn't going to change that.

Good way to look at it and pretty much my opinion.

In time, when I own something, what will this thread mean looking back? Nothing at all

 

[Clark1961]

So basically, I'm getting the mom answer of "because I said so."

But if seeing the first 5 years of logs saying oil change, annual, oil change, annual, oil change annual, oil change annual that happened 50+ years ago is such a sticking point, you are probably going to ****, whine, and moan about a paint chip on the vert stab and want a $15k discount for a paint job - and it's probably best if you don't waste my time.

"Oh, there was a low cylinder compression in 1963, you need to take $5000 off the price."
"Uh, those cylinders aren't even in the plane anymore."
"So!?!? I want my discount, I'm important!"

FYI: I actually flew my plane to the buyer's A&P of choice for inspection.

Hey Ed, I'll give you full price if you'll discount it 100% and pay me to deliver it to myself. That's the deal I want and I'm not giving an inch! And it'd better pass the pre-buy or you'll have to pay me to return it to you.

 

[James331]

So basically, I'm getting the mom answer of "because I said so."

But if seeing the first 5 years of logs saying oil change, annual, oil change, annual, oil change annual, oil change annual that happened 50+ years ago is such a sticking point, you are probably going to ****, whine, and moan about a paint chip on the vert stab and want a $15k discount for a paint job - and it's probably best if you don't waste my time.

"Oh, there was a low cylinder compression in 1963, you need to take $5000 off the price."
"Uh, those cylinders aren't even in the plane anymore."
"So!?!? I want my discount, I'm important!"

FYI: I actually flew my plane to the buyer's A&P of choice for inspection.

Yeah I do want to see that, I also want to match things up (like I said earlier).

The oil changes and how many hours it flew a year are important to me too, especially the hours and calendar time between oil changes.

As for the silliness you mentioned about paint chips and compression, come on man.

FWIW I bought 2 planes so far, one as a PPL looking to build hours to my CPL, I kept that plane for quite some time, second plane I bought as a working ATP with a little more experience under my belt. Both turned out well, and both owners were able to send logs without having to ask them twice.

Another thing I did when buying my planes was to run the old owner in the airmans database, I've found working level pilots tend to take better care of their planes than a hobby pilot, not always, but it is something I keep in the back of my mind when I go to look at a plane, a guy who make his living flying is less likley to risk a ding on his record from flying a un airworthy aircraft.

 

[EdFred]

Yeah I do want to see that, I also want to match things up (like I said earlier).

The oil changes and how many hours it flew a year are important to me too, especially the hours and calendar time between oil changes.

As for the silliness you mentioned about paint chips and compression, come on man.

FWIW I bought 2 planes so far, one as a PPL looking to build hours to my CPL, I kept that plane for quite some time, second plane I bought as a working ATP with a little more experience under my belt. Both turned out well, and both owners were able to send logs without having to ask them twice.

Another thing I did when buying my planes was to run the old owner in the airmans database, I've found working level pilots tend to take better care of their planes than a hobby pilot, not always, but it is something I keep in the back of my mind when I go to look at a plane, a guy who make his living flying is less likley to risk a ding on his record from flying a un airworthy aircraft.

Frequency of flight 2+ overhauls, an engine tear down inspection, and 50 annuals ago would impact on your decision how? The last 10-15 years, sure. 50 years ago? Come on.

As far as the silliness. Not joking. I ran into idiots like that with both planes I've sold/am selling.

 

[James331]

Frequency of flight 2+ overhauls, an engine tear down inspection, and 50 annuals ago would impact on your decision how? The last 10-15 years, sure. 50 years ago? Come on.

As far as the silliness. Not joking. I ran into idiots like that with both planes I've sold/am selling.

And if you like to be selling instead of having it sold, keep on giving potential buyers a hard time over simple requests


I guess I could of explained it better.

The older stuff is to compare to FAA, NTSB, help match up STCs etc.

Time since the last overhaul is where I'm looking to see how long the plane sat, how long between oil changes, should I expect the plane has a la brea tar pits under the oil cap? How often was the guy replacing stuff, if he's been going through jugs like socks, chances are he doesn't know how to run a engine, now I'm really going to go over the current jugs with a fine tooth comb, that kind of thing.

 

[Stewartb]

Two camps. No reason to argue. If I refuse to provide logs to a guy sitting on his computer 3000 miles away he may think I'm being obstinate and eliminating any chance that he'll consider my plane. To me I've eliminated a very low percentage potential buyer who was perfectly willing to waste my time while they were attempting to blindly judge my airplane by their review of logbooks. It's a win-win.

Case in history, when I rebuilt my own PA-12 and it was returned to service I tossed the entire set of logbooks from prior to that date. They were meaningless. It had no adverse impact on the sale a couple of years later. Nada.

 

[kmead]

I probably do at least one pre-buy a week. I do all that I can to get copies of all logs to do my research before I leave. Many times the movement stops do to what I find in the research. It kills a lot of my time researching the logs when I can focus my time on the aircraft. I always look through the real logs once I'm there. That's paid off for me.

It does worry me when the seller is hesitant to send me complete log copies on a $500,000 PA46. I got out to a Mirage once that the seller said it was crashed only once. He left out the other two crashes in the ad and the few copies of the logs that he sent. It was a piece of junk. Many owners claim that all SBs, SLs, and chapter 5 items are done. I looked at a Meridian once that had nothing done since new in 2001. I received my log copies when I was an hour away. The wings were wrinkled too. The buyer passed on that one.

There are certain items that I expect to be in the books. If they aren't there it's pretty easy to know what I will find once I'm there.

 

[EdFred]

And if you like to be selling instead of having it sold, keep on giving potential buyers a hard time over simple requests


I guess I could of explained it better.

The older stuff is to compare to FAA, NTSB, help match up STCs etc.

Time since the last overhaul is where I'm looking to see how long the plane sat, how long between oil changes, should I expect the plane has a la brea tar pits under the oil cap? How often was the guy replacing stuff, if he's been going through jugs like socks, chances are he doesn't know how to run a engine, now I'm really going to go over the current jugs with a fine tooth comb, that kind of thing.

That last part I completely get. For my plane, all the STCs and everything you would find in the FAA database would be in that time frame since the last overhaul. When I bought it, it was interesting to see where it had been prior to the last OH, but the information prior to the OH is completely worthless - other than 2-3 ADs that show up on the AD compliance sheet which indicated the date complied with, and it much easier to read than the chicken scratch in the falling apart airframe log dated 1958.

 

[Tom-D]

I was invited to a Sunday pancake breakfast at AFS at AWO, When I got there a friend who is their IA tells me there is a 170 in the back corner that needs my attention.

I go look, there sets a 48 C-170 with a cylinder removed, interior removed, tattered old head liner, and old enamel paint, The windows are opaque to the point I can't see thru them, and it is covered in a 1/4" of dust. and the wings were old cotton and would not pass the punch test. I ask to see the logs, and find the old owner can't find them.

What I notice that interested me the most was the lack of damage on the old bird. there were no dents, or hangar rash any where.

I thought what a nice old 170. I ask is it for sale, and was told yes. I made an offer, My friend made a phone call, the offer was excepted. I wrote a check.

The whole process took less than 15 minutes.

Rule #1, know what you want.
Rule #2, Know what it's worth.
Rule #3, Know a good deal when you see it.

Simply remember, no aircraft is perfect. It's simply what you can buy it for and how much work you are willing to do to it.

 

[Tom-D]

I don't get why so many are concerned about maintenance records, most buyers don't understand what's written in them. or what it means.

All AD's complied with. Doesn't mean anything to a new buyer, until they have been verified that the AD has been verified actually complied with on the aircraft.

Aircraft TT, in most cases isn't correct.

Engine TT, Unless the log is a brand new, for a brand new engine with only the factory entry, probably does not contain all the work completed.

What is written in a log book doesn't have any effect on what will happen tomorrow.

 

[OkieAviator]

I don't get why so many are concerned about maintenance records, most buyers don't understand what's written in them. or what it means.

It's mostly we can't read what's written on the back of newspaper ad, stapled to the logbook from 1978.

 

[JoseCuervo]

So basically, I'm getting the mom answer of "because I said so."

But if seeing the first 5 years of logs saying oil change, annual, oil change, annual, oil change annual, oil change annual that happened 50+ years ago is such a sticking point, you are probably going to ****, whine, and moan about a paint chip on the vert stab and want a $15k discount for a paint job - and it's probably best if you don't waste my time.

"Oh, there was a low cylinder compression in 1963, you need to take $5000 off the price."
"Uh, those cylinders aren't even in the plane anymore."
"So!?!? I want my discount, I'm important!"

FYI: I actually flew my plane to the buyer's A&P of choice for inspection.

Would you happily send all logs since Major Overhaul, air Frame since 1995, and any pages with major repairs and damage history prior to 1995?


Nobody cares about oil change in 1963, but, at the same time, what harm is letting somebody know the oil was changed in 1963?

I sell large equipment all the time. I try to do whatever I can to help the Buyer decide my item is the one they want.

Withholding information that will be revealed later is a HUGE waste of MY time. If the Buyer is going to be spooked by something in the logs, let's get them spooked early, for The Seller's benefit.

 

[EdFred]

Would you happily send all logs since Major Overhaul, air Frame since 1995, and any pages with major repairs and damage history prior to 1995?


Nobody cares about oil change in 1963, but, at the same time, what harm is letting somebody know the oil was changed in 1963?

I sell large equipment all the time. I try to do whatever I can to help the Buyer decide my item is the one they want.

Withholding information that will be revealed later is a HUGE waste of MY time. If the Buyer is going to be spooked by something in the logs, let's get them spooked early, for The Seller's benefit.

Yep. That's not unreasonable at all.
Complete logs on a 20 year aircraft vs complete logs on a 60 year aircraft where a lot of the stuff doesn't even exist anymore is a bit different.

 

[James331]

I don't get why so many are concerned about maintenance records, most buyers don't understand what's written in them. or what it means.

All AD's complied with. Doesn't mean anything to a new buyer, until they have been verified that the AD has been verified actually complied with on the aircraft.

Aircraft TT, in most cases isn't correct.

Engine TT, Unless the log is a brand new, for a brand new engine with only the factory entry, probably does not contain all the work completed.

What is written in a log book doesn't have any effect on what will happen tomorrow.

Do you understand what's in mx logs?

Following your logic why bother with logs at all, might as well toss them

 

[bflynn]

Well as noted you seem to be putting too much emphasis on previewing the logs. "Moving on" might mean you just passed the best deal on a wonderful airplane. There's really no need to assume that whatever is in the logbooks is going to be a deal breaker. The only true measure is actual physical inspection of the aircraft.

It's not the ONLY true measure, it could be a beautiful looking and well maintained aircraft, but if it's missing a major AD then moving on.

I think all "Moving on" means is that he believes it's reasonable to be able to see the logs electronically and to check that the airplane is legally compliant. Without being able to review the logs, he is unwilling to put several hundred dollars to check the physical condition AND the logs.

From a seller's perspective, if you have a nice set of logs then it's great to share them. It's cheap and doesn't cost anything to mail a PDF but you might be getting the buyer to already start thinking of it as their airplane. That emotional investment that comes the buyer from having put time into the buying process is valuable to you.

From the buyer's perspective, you are likely to wind up paying more because you're artificially limiting your supply of available aircraft. Lower supply = higher prices.

 

[Kristin]

I've been asking for electronic scans of logbooks. I'm not making an offer nor am I going to travel across the country to look at an airplane if I can't at least see the maintenance history first and at LEAST make sure the aircraft is currently up to snuff legally if not otherwise.

Two replies today:

"The logs aren't scanned, I don't have time to do that, whoever does the prebuy can go through them"

Ok then. Next!

Next scenario:

Me - "Good morning, are the logs available in scanned format, and if so, could you please email them to me? Thank you!"

Seller - "Nope, aircraft sold yesterday to a hands-on buyer, no cell phone culture sales here".

LOL, ok sir. Dollars to doughnuts the guy is pretty old with that comment...

I do logbook reviews for clients and pre-purchase inspections. I ask for the airframe logs back to the beginning. The engine log(s) back to the last overhaul, inclusive, plus any ancillary paperwork to go with the overhaul, like 8130's, etc. Same with the prop log(s). I want to see the 337's and the AD compliance sheet. Even on the 50+ year old airplane, I can photo all that in 20 minutes with a digital camera. Two pages at a time. If a seller can't be bothered, I recommend the buyer not bother with that airplane either.

 

[eetrojan]

I've yet to buy an airplane, but if I was looking I might politely ask if I could see an electronic copy of the logs. Does that mean that I'm naive, or a tire kicker? I don't know.

However, I would be a LOT more motivated to further consider a particular plane if the seller didn't berate me for asking, but rather said something nice, and mutually cooperative, something like, "I don't have them in that format, and that's a big undertaking for me, but I'd be happy to send you some photos of the last five or six pages since the last annual," or at least something like that. Meet me part way.

Then, if things progressed, I'd hire Kristin!

 

[dtuuri]

If a seller can't be bothered, I recommend the buyer not bother with that airplane either.

Maybe the seller could be bothered after you've placed a nice deposit in escrow?

dtuuri

 

[Tom-D]

Do you understand what's in mx logs?

Following your logic why bother with logs at all, might as well toss them

They are only required to be kept 2 years any way.

 

[danhagan]

Owner maintenance that's done IAW the rules and properly logged should not require an A&P signoff. There is no need to get a signoff for, say, a light bulb replacement or battery replacement, provided the logging is properly done. That shows care of the airplane and compliance with the rules.

Off the top of my head, the tach was replaced and didn't match the logs. The DG was also replaced (no entries). He indicated he worked on the gear himself (Piper Arrow) and changed all the sumps. There was other avionics work done not recorded.

As a buyer, I'd be more interested in whether the logs are complete, via phone, and then review them when I get there to inspect the plane. dtuuri

I tried that on three aircraft, and only found the problems AFTER traveling (sellers lied) ... all were asked specifically if logs were complete and if there was ANY known damage. One in Arizona indicated, "You wouldn't have come if I told you about that damage ..."

 

[Tom-D]

Off the top of my head, the tach was replaced and didn't match the logs. The DG was also replaced (no entries). He indicated he worked on the gear himself (Piper Arrow) and changed all the sumps. There was other avionics work done not recorded.



I tried that on three aircraft, and only found the problems AFTER traveling (sellers lied) ... all were asked specifically if logs were complete and if there was ANY known damage. One in Arizona indicated, "You wouldn't have come if I told you about that damage ..."

Don't you really care what the material condition of the aircraft is? Who cares who made it that way?
The paper is the easiest thing about the aircraft to retrofit.

 

[petrolero]

It's fine, if you don't want to scan the logs, cool, that's the seller's choice.. I simply will move on to the next airplane. But there's no need to be rude about it. I replied to the second guy and said thanks for the reply, and that I didn't think it was a "cell phone culture" thing, and that I just wanted to be able to see the logs prior to making an offer.

And he blew up at me with his reply. So, I guess I didn't want to deal with that guy anyways

Old people can be cranky.

During my search, I or my broker asked for copies of pertinent log pages for the previous three annuals and any major work and got that every single time. It's a matter of course. Not sure why anyone would find that odd - unless you did indeed expect them to send scans of ALL logs.

It just so happens that 99.99% of people transmit 'copies' as scanned PDFs since a long time ago. Even faxes come in as PDF docs.

 

[fiveoboy01]

I honestly don't recall and the email is deleted but I don't think I specifically said "send me every single logbook page you have in PDF format".

 

[fiveoboy01]

Ok, just for fun, here's the copied and pasted exchange(email was in the trash)....

If I'm being unreasonable here, rip me apart

Me:

Good morning,

Are the logs available electronically? If so could you please email them
to me?

Thanks!

His reply:

Nope. Sold to a hands on Buyer yesterday, No Cell phone culture sales here.

My reply:

LOL, ok sir.

It's not a cell phone culture, e-logs is a pretty normal thing these days even if some sellers don't wish to provide them that way.

Thanks for the reply, congrats on selling the bird

Him:

Do you have any idea how much trouble it is to copy the complete logs of a 38 year old aircraft.. a Piper to boot? Buyers come to see and buy; that's been my 40 year history of aircraft sales. Where in the world did you assume it's "a normal thing" for an aircraft dealer to put up with such demand? Now there are those that have never owned, flown or sold an aircraft today that will copy logs to get a listing. Avoid these sucker fish ; they will tell you anything for a commission.
From an honest ad like mine, with photo representation, the NEXT step is "Personal Contact " Not impersonal log reading. I could have shared all of my experience and knowledge to assist you in making a commitment to physically inspect, fly and confirm what the ad represented, a real bargain, restored Piper.
If you want one like it, don't waste time reading logs. Anybody can put anything in them. Go online and order for $10.from the FAA the complete owner history for lien free purchase and FAA required 337's for any repairs.
Use a 40 year experienced dealer like me to insure condition and value. It's Not like buying a used car.

My final reply and where the conversation ended:

"It wasn't a demand, (name of guy). Have a great day

Flame away!!

 

[jesse]

Ok, just for fun, here's the copied and pasted exchange(email was in the trash)....

If I'm being unreasonable here, rip me apart

Me:

Good morning,

Are the logs available electronically? If so could you please email them
to me?

Thanks!

His reply:

Nope. Sold to a hands on Buyer yesterday, No Cell phone culture sales here.

My reply:

LOL, ok sir.

It's not a cell phone culture, e-logs is a pretty normal thing these days even if some sellers don't wish to provide them that way.

Thanks for the reply, congrats on selling the bird

Him:

Do you have any idea how much trouble it is to copy the complete logs of a 38 year old aircraft.. a Piper to boot? Buyers come to see and buy; that's been my 40 year history of aircraft sales. Where in the world did you assume it's "a normal thing" for an aircraft dealer to put up with such demand? Now there are those that have never owned, flown or sold an aircraft today that will copy logs to get a listing. Avoid these sucker fish ; they will tell you anything for a commission.
From an honest ad like mine, with photo representation, the NEXT step is "Personal Contact " Not impersonal log reading. I could have shared all of my experience and knowledge to assist you in making a commitment to physically inspect, fly and confirm what the ad represented, a real bargain, restored Piper.
If you want one like it, don't waste time reading logs. Anybody can put anything in them. Go online and order for $10.from the FAA the complete owner history for lien free purchase and FAA required 337's for any repairs.
Use a 40 year experienced dealer like me to insure condition and value. It's Not like buying a used car.

My final reply and where the conversation ended:

"It wasn't a demand, (name of guy). Have a great day

Flame away!!

The last time I wanted to make logs available on an aircraft older than that, it took me about 10 minutes. Take a picture of each page, dump the folder in dropbox, share it....

If you don't want to go through less than 10 minutes of effort that only takes you once per airplane and many buyers want to see I don't want to buy an airplane from you.

I can understand a private seller that might not know anything about technology at all. But a broker? No thanks...

 

[fiveoboy01]

I don't know if he's a broker or not. His reply indicates that he may be. Ad said "for sale by owner"...

The ad is still up, too.

 

[RichNY]

I've owned 4 planes. I ask for photos of areas of the plane I'm concerned about. I'll ask the owner certain questions when he has the logbooks in front of him. If things look and sound OK, I'll send for the records from the FAA. If things still look good, I'll schedule a visit to see it.
If you're clueless about planes, hire a mechanic or broker you know and trust. Otherwise you'll waste the seller's time and possibly get burnt yourself.

Always start with planes closest to you and work out from there.

 

[James331]

They are only required to be kept 2 years any way.

I bet that makes for a great sales pitch for a aircraft buyer.

 

[Tom-D]

I bet that makes for a great sales pitch for a aircraft buyer.

Apparently that's all the FAA feels is important.

Tell me what could be in a maintenance record that is over 2 years old that would show current material condition?
Don't tell me AD compliance because we know that is a Fantasy.

 

[James331]

You're living on a diffrent planet Tom.

 

[Tom-D]

You're living on a diffrent planet Tom.

IOWs you can't answer the question.

Cya.