Buying a Piper Arrow Questions

[mandm]

Hope to get feedback from others on here.

Went to look at a high time airframe Piper Arrow 180hp with a mid-time engine. Went on a test flight and flies surprisingly well (tested slow flight, steep turns, loading an approach, auto-pilot, etc). The plane has a basic GPS WAAS and ADSB and is in better condition than I anticipated. The logs show the plane was located in the Northern part of the states so doesn’t seem like a Florida or coastal issue. Compressions on the annual were mid 60s which sparked some concern to me. My main concern is the wing spar on a high time airframe, even if an eddy current is performed, how often should this be checked. Also my second concern is the low compressions if a major overhaul will be needed. The logs shows it hasn’t flown much in the previous 5 years. Just a few hours each year probably to get the annual performed. The plane is located close to me and I intend to have a pre-buy done but wondering if these things mentioned above are red flags from the start.

I’m a new PPL with complex rating and about 15 hours in the Arrow, about 110 hrs total time and studying for my instrument rating. I’m looking for something to do my commercial training in and xc trips.

 

[Deelee]

these things mentioned above are red flags from the start.

yeah, they are. Compressions aren’t the only sign of an engine’s health, but mid 60s would be a red flag. Hasn’t flown much - red flag. High time af - maybe red flag. Get copies of the logs and see how many 100 hour inspections the plane has had then look up the formula for that wing spar ad. That will tell you what to expect in terms of possible eddy current inspections.

some questions - how much time on the engine smoh or since new? Time on AF? Any oil analysis data? Damage history ( that may play into the spar ad, too). Gear-ups? All logs available since born?

what’s the asking price?

We just went through this recently buying an arrow. Looked at several (ok, lots) before buying the one we did.

 

[mandm]

yeah, they are. Compressions aren’t the only sign of an engine’s health, but mid 60s would be a red flag. Hasn’t flown much - red flag. High time af - maybe red flag. Get copies of the logs and see how many 100 hour inspections the plane has had then look up the formula for that wing spar ad. That will tell you what to expect in terms of possible eddy current inspections.

some questions - how much time on the engine smoh or since new? Time on AF? Any oil analysis data? Damage history ( that may play into the spar ad, too). Gear-ups? All logs available since born?

what’s the asking price?

We just went through this recently buying an arrow. Looked at several (ok, lots) before buying the one we did.

12,000+ TTAF, 1100 SMOH, Price $37,000, didn’t see any oil analysis data, logs since late 70s (appears first 10 years is missing or wasn’t sent to me), I saw about 20 x 100hrs but very possible I missed some. The wing spar inspection will be paid for by the Seller. I didn’t see any damage history but some upper skins on one wing were replaced a long time ago.

 

[Deelee]

Upper skin maybe cause by hard landing(s) driving the strut through the wing? Not saying that’s what happened, but given all those hours it seems like this was a flight school or rental airplane. and not every student or renter was like me and greased 100% of the landings

The high AF time, mid time engine that has sat, missing logs, low compressions.... I would walk. But that’s just one opinion. Never know - she could fly beautifully to 2500 hours with no issues. Ah the fun of buying ancient aircraft.

 

[mandm]

Yeah I think it was a rental airplane but I also accept that I’m not a perfect pilot and I’m sure I’ll have some hard landings in the future. From my perspective, I rather do my practice on a cheaper airplane until I’m very good at it. I don’t feel comfortable spending 70-100k on an airplane at this stage because my landings can be iffy from time to time.

But on the other hand, I don’t want to risk my life with the wing falling off or having huge mx issues in the near future. I guess it’s a gamble. I am in process of getting my mechanics opinion but he doesn’t like high time airframes, end of story.

 

[Morgan3820]

Yeah I think it was a rental airplane but I also accept that I’m not a perfect pilot and I’m sure I’ll have some hard landings in the future. From my perspective, I rather do my practice on a cheaper airplane until I’m very good at it. I don’t feel comfortable spending 70-100k on an airplane at this stage because my landings can be iffy from time to time.

But on the other hand, I don’t want to risk my life with the wing falling off or having huge mx issues in the near future. I guess it’s a gamble. I am in process of getting my mechanics opinion but he doesn’t like high time airframes, end of story.

Then don’t buy the plane.
I have never seen a thread start with three consecutive postings from the OP before.
You win.

 

[Salty]

Then don’t buy the plane.
I have never seen a thread start with three consecutive postings from the OP before.
You win.

Apparently you have @Deelee on ignore.

 

[Morgan3820]

Apparently you have @Deelee on ignore.

Yup lol

 

[Juliet Hotel]

With 12k hours and those compressions and possibly incomplete logs, I'd be looking elsewhere. That one ain't no bargain. There are lots of Arrows out there. Keep looking.

 

[Deelee]

Apparently you have @Deelee on ignore

Just like my wife and kid. I gets no respect I tells ya... none at all!

Enjoy your new-to-you-but-really-run-out Arrow. One more piece of advice - put aside about 30k-40k for first year airworthiness issues and an engine overhaul.

Or don't. Whatever.

 

[Tommar98]

That’s a high time plane which will make selling it later on difficult. Logbooks are a 1/3 of planes value so if they are really missing logbooks that’s a problem as well when you go to sell. Ask yourself how much this plane will be worth if you have to spend $35K on an engine. It’s a low entry price but that is the least of a plane’s ownership costs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Ravioli]

Logbooks are a 1/3 of planes value

According to Airplane Rep it is 1/2 the value. I tried to sell my logbooks for 1/2 the value of my plane, but couldn't find a buyer. Some wanted the plane too! Crazy.

 

[Deelee]

I tried to sell my logbooks for 1/2 the value of my plane, but couldn't find a buyer

Our logbooks are so old, the paper alone is probably worth a fortune as an archeological relic. I think they are printed on papyrus.