Buy it. Buy it. Buy it. . .

I’d buy it, but that’s speaking from someone who plans to own and fly no matter what. I’m gonna fly regardless of all sorts of things, economy, insurance, age, etc. If I’m in good health, guess what? I’m going to fly my happy arse off!

I bought one just over 18 mo ago. 1981 A36. The airplane market was high, but I found a sweetheart. It’s actually gone up considerably in value since the purchase. Crazy, I didn’t expect that!
Bought one in 2000. 1975 C172. It was excessive because we had young kids then. Now it’s worth 4 times what I paid. Yes, I still have it.
Bought in 1988. 1964 C150. I couldn’t afford it out right. The seller let me pay half down and make monthly installments. All based on a handshake. He ended up being one of my best friends and I miss him now. Made a 30% profit on that one when I sold it 5 years later.
Bought in 1986. 1947 Stinson 108-1. (See my pic on the top left) There’s no way I could afford it. I was in A&P school. Bought it out of a salvage yard with a small bank loan. Couldn’t even fly it until I got my A&P license and signed it off in 1987. Should have kept it but someone made me a great offer after only putting a dozen or so hours on it.

None of these decisions wold have received a financial planner’s approval. Good thing I didn’t care. Each of them brought joy to my life. Yes, I studied my decisions to purchase, but I never micro analyzed the market or my balance sheet. I’m gonna fly and work on my airplanes until I can’t do it anymore. Period! Too many people pass on the stuff they love and regret it later.
 
kaiser said:
I think with 401ks/investments, it's like losing an engine at night. "Landing light on, if you don't like what you see... landing light off"
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Why worry about retirement when if you’re under 40 you’ll probably never get to enjoy it anyways. Might as well buy the plane!
 
somorris said:
My input is it depends a lot on your wife as well. If she is retired and enjoys flying and travelling, go fo it. We sold our airplane back in July after owning it for 16 years. We owned another airplane for 4 years before that. We could not afford either at the time, it did not make good financial sense, but I don't regret either one. We are still here and haven't missed even a single meal! I don't even want to think about what my life would have been like up to this point if I had not gone down that road.
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Widowed now, unfortunately. 41 good years. But she would have told me to not waffle and go for it.
 
Economy only matters if you depend on it for future income. 401k balance only matters if you plan to withdraw it to pay for the plane.
 
Sundancer said:
I've heard! I think that's why I looked hard at EAB for a while - the "acquisition and sustainment" costs are more tolerable. Only. . . I'm handy, but nothing like A&P skilled. I can definitly handle the avionics side but I'd still be paying a pro to maintain the moving parts. My wanderings are focused on Grummans now - joined their pilots association, doing my due diligence.
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Grummans…. Did someone say Grummans? I’ve owned a Cheetah or Tiger since 1999, let me know if you have questions.
 
Sundancer said:
Widowed now, unfortunately. 41 good years. But she would have told me to not waffle and go for it.
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So why did you come here and ask? She said "buy the plane".
 
Rcmutz said:
Grummans…. Did someone say Grummans? I’ve owned a Cheetah or Tiger since 1999, let me know if you have questions.
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LOVE the Tiger. Did my PP in Tigers.

I looked at them when I was looking to buy, but not many on the market then.
 
Pinecone said:
LOVE the Tiger. Did my PP in Tigers.

I looked at them when I was looking to buy, but not many on the market then.
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I spent time shopping for a Traveler before buying my Beech. @SixPapaCharlie gave me a ride in his and I really liked the plane. Unfortunately it was hard to find a good one for sale. A Cheetah or Tiger would have been even better, but the ones I found were quite pricey. It's a great family of planes, though, and I love the sliding canopy.
 
All you peeps saying "my plane" need to make a concerted effort to say "our plane" if the situation warrants. I have done such recently, and it pays dividends, trust me. :happydance:
 
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Half Fast said:
Unfortunately it was hard to find a good one for sale. A Cheetah or Tiger would have been even better, but the ones I found were quite pricey. It's a great family of planes, though, and I love the sliding canopy.
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Just looked online and there are a few Tigers. But the panels are 1980s. No HSI, sometimes no GPS. And a couple without ADSB.

And at "interesting" prices.
 
texasclouds said:
Did Op splash the cash yet???
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Nope. Still sitting on the money. . .connecting with more guys locally (I'm kinda new to the area); will hit the EAA chapter nearby this Saturday. Goodly number of Cheetahs and Tigers are on the market in my budget range, most with with older avionics - seeing a lot of GX55's and I'm figuring $7K - $10K to replace one of those with a modern box. I don't mind the older Century APs.
 
172andyou said:
There are only two reasons to buy a plane:

1) Availability
2) To get a plane that you can't find in a club

Sounds like you have availability already and are shopping for a "normal" plane. So, keep using the club.
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3. If you are going to travel, I doubt club membership would be happy if you took a plane for a couple of weeks.
 
Rcmutz said:
Grummans…. Did someone say Grummans? I’ve owned a Cheetah or Tiger since 1999, let me know if you have questions.
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Cheetah - coming up short on TBO because engine cooling is inadequate? Some reading blames it on crappy baffling plus the too-tight cowl. Glazing, etc.? Your experience?
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
3. If you are going to travel, I doubt club membership would be happy if you took a plane for a couple of weeks.
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Yup. That's what #1 is about. :)

The club I was in let me take a 172 for two weeks multiple times, so availability wasn't a concern. There are plenty like that, BTW.
 
Sundancer said:
Cheetah - coming up short on TBO because engine cooling is inadequate? Some reading blames it on crappy baffling plus the too-tight cowl. Glazing, etc.? Your experience?
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I haven’t had any issues. Good baffling and proper breakin is the key. I replaced cylinders on my Cheetah to get the HC STC. Breakin went fine. No issues when boroscope over the first 200 hrs before I sold her to buy my current Tiger.
 
Just missed - the airplane looks real good, but the seller has gone radio silent after I asked for scans of the airworthiness and logs last week. Maybe he's just busy, or hasn't scanned them yet. It's still advertised - factory built LSA,but I need to know the mods have LOAs. I may heave put him off mentioning that. Oh well.
 
If there is any hesitation on the logs being provided then my advice is 100% pass on the specific aircraft without a second thought.
As for the finances, if you will consider the aircraft an asset then also pass on it.
The economy is bad and likely to be bad all next year. Cash is great to have and significantly underrated.
If you can spend the cash on an aircraft and consider that an expense and be happy considering the aircraft to be a toy with no resale value then go for it.
 
Good solid well taken care of old planes will get rarer to come by as each year passes. Keep your plane well maintained and it can be an investment
 
Sundancer said:
Just missed - the airplane looks real good, but the seller has gone radio silent after I asked for scans of the airworthiness and logs last week. Maybe he's just busy, or hasn't scanned them yet. It's still advertised - factory built LSA,but I need to know the mods have LOAs. I may heave put him off mentioning that. Oh well.
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Is it an S-LSA or an E-LSA?
 
S-LSA. If it was E-LSA it would not be a problem. I'd be OK with moving it to E-LSA, but a DAR has to confirm it has not been modified, or that mods had been approved by the manufacturer, before it can be moved to E-LSA. And the manufacturer is out of business - I reached out to one of the former execs and he's willing to look at panel pics, the airworthiness, and the logs and let me know. I guess it's possible the airplane is "legal" - someone has been doing the annual condition inspections and signing them off. Maybe the owner is a LSRM and has been taking care of it. Or someone else has been doing the annual and and might not know the rules. But absent the airworthiness and logs, it's a non-starter for me.
 
Sundancer said:
Just missed - the airplane looks real good, but the seller has gone radio silent after I asked for scans of the airworthiness and logs last week. Maybe he's just busy, or hasn't scanned them yet. It's still advertised - factory built LSA,but I need to know the mods have LOAs. I may heave put him off mentioning that. Oh well.
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Sounds like maybe he doesn't want to deal with someone who looks at logs - for some reason. Sounds like you shouldn't want to deal with him.
 
Sundancer said:
S-LSA. If it was E-LSA it would not be a problem. I'd be OK with moving it to E-LSA, but a DAR has to confirm it has not been modified, or that mods had been approved by the manufacturer, before it can be moved to E-LSA. And the manufacturer is out of business - I reached out to one of the former execs and he's willing to look at panel pics, the airworthiness, and the logs and let me know. I guess it's possible the airplane is "legal" - someone has been doing the annual condition inspections and signing them off. Maybe the owner is a LSRM and has been taking care of it. Or someone else has been doing the annual and and might not know the rules. But absent the airworthiness and logs, it's a non-starter for me.
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In my opinion, all the S-LSAs will eventually end up being E-LSAs for reasons such as no support or companies going out of business. Your concerns are valid but I’d probably only worry about it long enough to get it converted. Perhaps a discussion with a DAR that you’d hire to do the conversion would help move the purchase along if it is something you’re still interested in.
 
WDD said:
Get an opinion from these guys.

https://sportpilottalk.com/
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Yep, I'm familiar and a member - I tracked down one of the execs who worked for the manufacturer and he's willing to take a look and render an opinion; but absent logs there isn't anything for him to review. The ad is still up - our initial emails were cordial, then silence - I'd think any potential buyer would ask to see the airworthiness cert and logs, but I could be wrong about that - it has a recent condition inspection per the ad - maybe that plus a pre-buy is good enough for some buyers? My intent would be to take it it E-LSA but with mods without LOAs a DAR won't approve it. And if the condition inspection ignored the mods it might not even be S-LSA legal. Oh well. . .
 
WDD said:
Sounds like maybe he doesn't want to deal with someone who looks at logs - for some reason. Sounds like you shouldn't want to deal with him.
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I dunno; our email exchanges were fine and he was informative. Could be the LOA issue was news to him and he's taking stock. But yeah, time to move on. . .
 
Sundancer said:
I dunno; our email exchanges were fine and he was informative. Could be the LOA issue was news to him and he's taking stock. But yeah, time to move on. . .
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Late to the thread, but…

I was a member of a flying club three decades ago. Great idea for those that can’t afford it…

About 25-30 years ago I picked up a 172 with a partner reluctantly since I had chosen to hang up flying. Half the loan on that 172 was mice nuts. She flew it 30 hours the first year, and reluctant me flew it 300…

So off I went to upgrade. I wanted a 4 cylinder speedy mooney. Alas none were to be found then. A broker kept pushing a probate estate Turbo 6 cylinder. I ended up buying it for 1/2 the list price. I never sold the 172.

With a couple of airplanes in tow, I needed to paint them recently. People asking nearly $20k for paint each felt like sexual battery. Off I went to a community college to learn how to paint cars. Today, I’m probably sitting on 50 galllns if top of the line Imron. $20k my rump.

The story repeats itself with radios. I ended up with some spare radios after upgrades. Wait - how many thousands to install a radio? Yeah- not hundreds but thousands? I see. An AFM8 crimper, a pair of magnified glasses, a bit of patience and I installed my first HSI in my plane. Then an MX20, garmin 430, transponder, ADSB, indicators, blah blah blah. IA supervision is a wonderful thing.

There are plenty of airplanes in the market sadly from pilots that have lost their medical or passed, and have been left in less than ideal conditions. Bought a twin this way. Bought a fast commuter this way. It’s no different with grummans, pipers, beech’s or Cessnas. Keep an eye out, get the most out of your aviation dollar and fly your own bird…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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