Busted Checkride write up

You now have everything you need. Let's take my ride in a 152 for example that I fly at 90 kts and 6 gph, so I know that it's going to take me 20 minutes and 2 gallons of fuel per finger span. So we navigate along a VOR radial and the DPE says, "Oh, it's solid IMC ahead we're going to have to divert, take me to KXYZ, it's clear on the other side of the hills." So I pull out the chart, find KXYZ, turn in that General direction by reference to a mountain peak I pointed out I was using, then I set my finger gauge, walked it up the chrt in 3 seconds, 2 gallons at a time and told him, "I can't get there, We don't have the fuel, but I can get to this airport a bit further north." He asked, "How did you figure it that fast?" and I explained it to him. He nodded and went into teching mode. When a DPE goes into teaching mode they have passed you in their mind, it is now yours to lose. Be ready to drink from the firehose though, because if you have a good DPE, when they go into instructor mode, they fill in a lot of info fast.

That's pretty much exactly how it happened in my checkride. Obviously I already knew the rough distance and gas usage... but I still went through the process in about 20 seconds.
 
My examiner on my private ride was screaming the entire time at the end. He screamed because I turned my head to look at him when I talked. He screamed at everything. I passed, but I will never fly with him again.

Funny enough, I saw him a few months ago in a terminal at ATL in a regional airline uniform. Doesn't surprise me at all.

Sorry to hear about your story, OP. Get it finished up.
 
Ouch! Sound like you'd have done better going straight to the FAA for your checkride. Sounds like this guy is either 1) miserable, or 2) been doing it too long. There seem to be multiple departures from the DPE's methods and the what the PTS specifies. I'm shocked you kept go9ing back to him.
 
I've been an infantry officer for years.

The DPE must have been a real ogre, then. I got desensitized to being yelled at on the first day of basic training. The TI (training instructor) had told us to mark our bunks with masking tape and our last name, first name and middle initial. Being a bit of a perfectionist, I also put a comma after my last name and a period after my middle initial. On inspection, he ripped it off the bunk and plastered it to my forehead and made me wear it all day long. I said I was sorry, he screamed, "You're sorriest thing I've ever seen!" :redface: Yelling hasn't bothered me much ever since.

dtuuri
 
sleeping while marching can and does happen.

As far as yelling, I've passed the point in my life where I'm willing to deal with it and "suck it up" as they say. I've paid my dues and will be given at least common courtesy. I'm slowly passing the point in life where I used to match the bad attitude 1 for 1. Now I just keep quiet, keep notes, and when the line is crossed I let pen and paper do the talking. Despite the screwed up grammar on here, I used to prepare and edit reports to congress. In that assignment I learned that being a hot head is really good at getting a little progress. After that, it's all numbers, facts and the proper articulation of them, preferably with direct citation of law or regulation.
 
It was just recently a forum regular told us while he was in basic training he didn't allow his drill Sargent to yell or use vulgar language towards him.

You mean that doesn't work??
 
Geef. What a bad deal. Condolences to the OP on his late check ride. Yeah, getting yelled at by the DPE for anything not involving flight safety (as in "hard starboard before you hit that airplane!") is enormously inappropriate. For half an AMU the bastard could be civil.

For the record I doubt I could have done a fix with one VOR when I got my ticket. Just wasn't that slick yet. If anyone asked me how to find my position on a VOR I'd have said the same thing, plugged in a frequency and followed it to something familiar. You were after the PPL, not an IFR rating. Heck, my airplane doesn't even have a VOR.
 
it seems you had several chances to bail from that dpe with the letters of discontinuance. your biggest fail was to keep flying with him.
 
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Just took a trainee to this DPE for an instrument rating ride today. I sat through the oral, which was, I thought, conducted professionally, properly, and politely. My trainee said the examiner was quiet, supportive, and a calming influence during the flight portion. And he passed.

This is consistent with the half dozen or so other experiences I have had personally with this DPE. As I said before, YMMV. I realize the OP seems to have had a very bad experience, but beyond that, I would suggest not relying on any second-hand reports about DPE's, i.e., "somebody told me that..." As opposed to "I was there..."

And this one remains on my "use again" list.
 
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Just took a trainee to this DPE for an instrument rating ride today. I sat through the oral, which was, I thought, conducted professionally, properly, and politely. My trainee said the examiner was quiet, supportive, and a calming influence during the flight portion. And he passed.

This is consistent with the half dozen or so other experiences I have had personally with this DPE. As I said before, YMMV. I realize the OP seems to have had a very bad experience, but beyond that, I would suggest not relying on any second-hand reports about DPE's, i.e., "somebody told me that..." As opposed to "I was there..."

And this one remains on my "use again" list.

Do you think your personal observation of every check ride may have an influence on his behavior?
 
Do you think your personal observation of every check ride may have an influence on his behavior?

Let's assume both stories are true, and the DPE's behavior does, in fact, vary widely. That's something that lends credence to Henning's theories about mental illness.

I've had the misfortune to watch one branch of my family tree (my aunt and two of her three children) die in their 30s and 40s due to early onset Alzheimers, and can attest to the amazing differences in observed behavior from day-to-day then hour-to-hour and finally minute-to-minute.

If I'd ever had a bizarre checkride experience, I'd let the FSDO know, not necessarily as a complaint, but just as an FYI comment. I wouldn't go back to the DPE again if I'd been the OP.
 
I must have missed the post where the DPE was named!!!!! How do you know who this is Ron?
 
Let's assume both stories are true, and the DPE's behavior does, in fact, vary widely. That's something that lends credence to Henning's theories about mental illness.
Henning has one person's personal observation of one experience and you're ready to accept Henning's unqualified second-hand diagnosis of mental illness? :sigh:
 
Let's assume both stories are true, and the DPE's behavior does, in fact, vary widely. That's something that lends credence to Henning's theories about mental illness.
One "story" by one applicant who failed and you're ready to throw this guy in the looney bin? I give up. But I'll use him again next time I need an examiner in that area.
 
Henning has one person's personal observation of one experience and you're ready to accept Henning's unqualified second-hand diagnosis of mental illness? :sigh:

Not diagnosis, concern, and it's not one person, there are more reports. I suspect this guy is your friend, if so, seriously, do him a favor and talk to him about it. There are medication regimes now that show good results at significantly retarding the advance of the symptoms of Alzheimer's and extend mental function until something else kills you. I'm not trying to be mean, I'm watching my dad, it's not a particularly kind existence.
 
Not diagnosis, concern, and it's not one person, there are more reports. I suspect this guy is your friend, if so, seriously, do him a favor and talk to him about it. There are medication regimes now that show good results at significantly retarding the advance of the symptoms. I'm not trying to be mean.
You obviously don't know him, and you obviously have never had any professional contact with him. You would be well advised to stop making such derogatory statements when you have no factual basis or professional qualifications on which to make them.
 
You obviously don't know him, and you obviously have never had any professional contact with him. You would be well advised to stop making such derogatory statements when you have no factual basis or professional qualifications on which to make them.

There is nothing derogatory about anything I have said, and nothing you say carries an ounce more weight than the OPs experience in this matter.

My position stands, the OP should go to the FSDO, relate his checkride story, and voice a concern over Alzheimer's.
 
Henning has one person's personal observation of one experience and you're ready to accept Henning's unqualified second-hand diagnosis of mental illness? :sigh:

You did see the word ASSUME, right, indicating a hyptothetical? If the OP tells the truth and you tell the truth, and you both were using the same AME, then there's something wrong with the guy. Not saying it's Alzheimers, but something is not right. Nobody who's a calm professional on one day should be screaming at students the other day.

I have no opinion other than expressed in the hypothetical.. the OP may be overstating. I'd not post a real opinion about the guy until I'd observed him personally.
 
I'm not taking either side in this discussion (whether the DPE does, or does not have Alzheimers), but I do find it inappropriate to attempt to form some sort of medical diagnosis of a person from second-hand account(s). Quite honestly, the number of stories you hear makes no difference. If everyone said that he was very fidgety, could you then conclude that he may be ailed by hemorrhoids as well? Or if he was coughing severely that he had ebola?

You ask 100 people on this site about buying an airplane, and each one of those people will tell you not to take the owners word for it, and have it checked out by an appropriate mechanic. I find that diagnosing someones mental faculties via anecdotal stories online is quite ironic given the advice in EVERY "should I buy this plane" thread.

Could the guy be seeing the onset of Alzheimer's? Absolutely. Is it also just as likely that he's just an angry man? Definitely. Is it also possible that those with negative stories and experiences with this guy need to unbunch their panties? Equally as likely.

But if we are throwing medical diagnoses out there, then I'm just gonna go ahead and say he's bipolar!....which, by the way, is just as likely....or did I mean to write constipated? Sexually frustrated? Devastated because his pet goldfish died?
 
My position stands, the OP should go to the FSDO, relate his checkride story, and voice a concern over Alzheimer's.
Definitely go to the FSDO, but I wouldn't say a word about Alzheimer's if I were the OP, even if that was a personal suspicion of mine and not something someone brought up on the Internet. ;)

Better to let professionals do the diagnosing. All he can do by bringing up a possible brain condition at the FSDO is get questions about his qualifications to make a medical observation -- and possibly detract from his own credibility.
 
Definitely go to the FSDO, but I wouldn't say a word about Alzheimer's if I were the OP, even if that was a personal suspicion of mine and not something someone brought up on the Internet. ;)

Better to let professionals do the diagnosing. All he can do by bringing up a possible brain condition at the FSDO is get questions about his qualifications to make a medical observation -- and possibly detract from his own credibility.

:yeahthat:
 
Better yet. Get your certificate go fly and don't give him another thought.
 
Maybe the DPE has a list of CFIs he's had bad experiences with, like students that aren't ready, and is extra hard on them?
 
Maybe the DPE has a list of CFIs he's had bad experiences with, like students that aren't ready, and is extra hard on them?

Maybe.... and that's also unprofessional. If a candidate isn't ready, bust them, and calmly explain why.
 
Maybe the DPE has a list of CFIs he's had bad experiences with, like students that aren't ready, and is extra hard on them?

I cant say if this is the case with mine or not. My CFI was the DPE at one time and the rolls have now reversed. When my CFI was the DPE he was offered another opportunity as a professional pilot and was the one who made the recommendation that this DPE (a CFI back then) be the one to replace him. They since have had a close relationship, but he admittedly avoided using him for a DPE for private pilot students.

I do believe my experience would have been different if my CFI had sat in with me because we did a pre-meeting with the DPE and he was completely different.

I can only comment on my experience and what has been relayed to me by my CFI, a handful of other DPEs in the area and students. I wont mention names regarding this either.

My intent was to relay the fact that I had busted, and to check that my experience wasnt "normal". It has been confirmed, as I suspected, as not the usual.

The largest amount of things that were of concern happened during/immediately after the oral. I left so frustrated that I talked with several others (two DPE, a three CFIs I know) in the area in a much less detailed manner, without names, and in broad general terms. A couple of them guessed who it was what I described (not location).

It was evident to me that something had gotten back to him and I knew I would have busted regardless of performance. There are others on here who have contacted me privately who have had similar experiences, other who had decent experiences.

I can personally say that I will have no further business with the individual of any kind, personal or professional, and I when I meet other students I will advise them of the same. The more I read about what should have happened vs what did, the more I see how far off it was regardless of my own performance. It was also entirely inconsistent with how he said it would go.

The positive to this is that two not-so-local examiners have reached out to me and offered to do a check ride for me, for virtually next to no cost. I just arrived in Colorado and have an appointment locally to meet with someone about potentially doing some refresher training, altitude flying, and a check ride here. Otherwise there are a few who are quite happy to fly with me when I get home.

All that being said, I encourage everyone to get their own experience. If you want my opinion, I'm happy to share it (and have here), but I encourage anyone to take a broad sample. If someone was in my area and considering it, I would suggest making your own calls to CFIs in the area, calling other students and pilots, etc. I have a hunch what the the general view will be based on my calls alone. But when you walk in from your checkride with your CFI and 3 or 4 other pilots waiting, you start to explain and they all talk about how he "went hyper" on me, because that side is well known, it's a sign.

EDIT: cut some sarcastic remarks about the actual post-check ride "advice"
 
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Maybe.... and that's also unprofessional. If a candidate isn't ready, bust them, and calmly explain why.

Yeah. Just trying to figure out how different CFIs/students can get totally opposite behaviors out of the DPE without jumping to Alzheimer's.
 
Just curious Gitmo, how old are you? Not particularly relevant, just wondering if the DPE thought he could get away with yelling at you due to a large age difference.

I flew as a kid, quit and am taking it back up again. Should be going for my own checkride in a couple weeks. At my age and after being a cop for 26 years, Ill be damned if some guy is going to yell at me on my checkride!
 
+1, take a deep breath and move on.

I don't agree. If the OP's story is relatively accurate, and I have no reason to suspect it's not, then others and the FSDO need to be warned about this guy.

Why should someone stay quiet and let this guy waste/take other students' $500 and give them nothing in return except heartburn? The guy sounds like a real jerk and, worse yet if you trust Levy's tales, a Jekyll/Hyde jerk.
 
I've had the misfortune to watch one branch of my family tree (my aunt and two of her three children) die in their 30s and 40s due to early onset Alzheimers, and can attest to the amazing differences in observed behavior from day-to-day then hour-to-hour and finally minute-to-minute.

You have a beta amyloid or presenillin allele loose in your family. They act as autosomal dominants (you get the allele, you get the disease). You are very, very lucky it's in another branch and not yours.

I watched my old man go from it, and it isn't a pretty sight. He was actively and obviously symptomatic when he was eight years older than I am right now.
 
There are medication regimes now that show good results at significantly retarding the advance of the symptoms of Alzheimer's and extend mental function until something else kills you.

The results of these "medication regimes" are horrifically oversold, I suspect by the drug companies that manufacture them. You get Alzheimers you get to grow stupid and die. And no, it isn't pretty. Sorry its happening to your old man. Don't expect it to get any better.
 
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