Busted checkride and impact on job opportunities

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airheadpenguin

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airheadpenguin
I'm wondering, does having busted a checkride and successfully completed the certificate have an outlandishly negative impact on job prospects.

The kinds of opportunities I'm thinking of would be, ferry pilot, CFI, that sorta thing not necessarily the regional/mainline carrier gigs.
 
If it was your first check ride, I doubt there is an impact.

If it was your Commercial or ATP ride, maybe.

If you are looking for low level flying jobs, most likely not an issue.
 
Just my IR, plenty more rides to show proficiency on.

The plan down the road is more to pick up side work and keep the day job anyway since its a lot more profitable.
 
I've asked that quite a bit, since I failed my PVT. That was because I was doing it for fun and wasn't too serious. A bit after the failure, I became much more serious, and even decided to major as a pro pilot in college. Everybody I've talked to, up-to-and-including high-level managers at major airlines, have all said that wouldn't be an issue. When asked if an added initial CFI failure would affect much, the answer was almost completely the same, being that statistics show that ride has a very large failure rate.
 
Shouldn't be a problem-just be ready to explain why you busted and be honest with both yourself and the person conducting the interview.
 
My boyfriend failed his CFI the first time mainly because the DPE thought he was too young to be an instructor, but he's had no problems at getting a job as a CFI and airline pilot.
 
One bust along the way probably wouldn't get much attention. More than one bust might bring some attention that isn't wanted. Or would it be lack of attention/interview?
 
I'd be very surprised if it had any impact at all. They're going to be much more interested in what you've done with you ticket since obtaining it than how you did on the ride. They'll be making their own assessment of your skills as they exist at the time you're being considered.
 
My understanding is that post Buffalo, some airlines have a maximum bust limit. I know that it will be discussed, if you get to an interview. Is it right or even fair? No, but neither is life.
 
One failure is not likely going to effect your chances. Just be ready to talk about it. I have heard they like to ask about it. Now if you have had to do all of your rides a second time, you might have some issues.
 
How do they even know if a certificate ride is failed? The only entry is likely to be the pre-retest remedial instruction given by your instructor. The checkride itself isn't necessarily logged (certainly the examiner has no reason to sign the log book one way or the other).

The bigger issue is the guys who managed to get into the left seat of the subsidy-kings like Colgan after failing numerous airline checks that are the bigger issue. Of course, that's the same airline that routinely in the 70's had fuel exhaustion crashes because they refused to allow the pilots to carry a lot of fuel for economy reasons.
 
flyingron said:
How do they even know if a certificate ride is failed? The only entry is likely to be the pre-retest remedial instruction given by your instructor. The checkride itself isn't necessarily logged (certainly the examiner has no reason to sign the log book one way or the other).

The bigger issue is the guys who managed to get into the left seat of the subsidy-kings like Colgan after failing numerous airline checks that are the bigger issue. Of course, that's the same airline that routinely in the 70's had fuel exhaustion crashes because they refused to allow the pilots to carry a lot of fuel for economy reasons.
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Through the Pilot Records Improvement Act (PRIA) The employer can request your records from the FAA.
 
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In one of the flying magazines I read, someone asked the same question(it was in the last few months), and the answer was basically what has already said. One bust is probably not an issue, many busts will limit your job opportunities, but no set in stone rules.
 
douglas393 said:
In one of the flying magazines I read, someone asked the same question(it was in the last few months), and the answer was basically what has already said. One bust is probably not an issue, many busts will limit your job opportunities, but no set in stone rules.
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Depends upon the company. Remember hiring is done by HR types who generally don't have a clue.
 
flyingron said:
How do they even know if a certificate ride is failed? The only entry is likely to be the pre-retest remedial instruction given by your instructor. The checkride itself isn't necessarily logged (certainly the examiner has no reason to sign the log book one way or the other).

The bigger issue is the guys who managed to get into the left seat of the subsidy-kings like Colgan after failing numerous airline checks that are the bigger issue. Of course, that's the same airline that routinely in the 70's had fuel exhaustion crashes because they refused to allow the pilots to carry a lot of fuel for economy reasons.
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Many applications ask if you have ever failed a checkride. I guess you could not tell them, but we know how well that works out when they find out.
 
jonnyjetprop said:
My understanding is that post Buffalo, some airlines have a maximum bust limit. I know that it will be discussed, if you get to an interview. Is it right or even fair? No, but neither is life.
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I don't think it is unfair to exclude applicants showing a pattern of failed rides, shows you were not only striving for the minimum standard, but missed.

A couple? Meh everyone has a bad day and check rides tend to be among the most stressful flights taken, especially at the lower training levels.
 
I was discussing this recently with a friend who is a professional pilot. He mentioned that he flew with a guy when timebuilding that had 3-4 busted checkrides. He said the fella would be perfectly fine under the hood but if they got in IMC, then he would have all sorts of trouble. He had lots of hours and a COMM rating.

Anyway we figured that one or two busted checkrides would probably get overlooked but 3+ would raise some eyebrows. Just given that you don't get any do-overs on the ride and any one thing could fail you. Heck I almost failed my private because I didn't hold the brakes long enough on the short field takeoff..

Another friend who flies 121 said that he figured one or two failed initial checkrides (private, instrument, comm, multi) would not be a big deal, but if after you become a pro pilot, you fail the company administered recurrent training - that would be a problem. Apparently you have to really really screw up to fail one of those.
 
I saw this discussed in one of the magazines recently. The answer was that a single bust, particularly the initial private or the initial CFI, wasn't an issue. Busts on multiple rides or 135/121 check flights were a problem.
 
Hello folks,

I'm John from New Jersey and I have just registered myself to this site today. I'm currently training at ATP flight schools for my certificates and working on getting my last one right now, the CFII.

Well it looks like i'm the one on the really bad fix now as I have three checkride failures. Failed the Oral exam on the CFI Initial (MEI), than failed the steep turns on the Commercial single engine (went 200 ft below instead of PTS minimums of plus or minus 100ft during roll out from the turn), and sadly the third failure was the oral exam for the CFII this past 7/1/13. Going to definitely regroup and try again but it looks like this is possibly the end for me with my options for my opportunity in the Regionals. Was aiming for ExpressJet or American Eagle. :( Think they all offer waivers for these kind of busts?? Atleast i'm told that I can fly perfectly well. I'm just struggling to get my knowledge on teaching straightened up.
 
flyingron said:
How do they even know if a certificate ride is failed?
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They can ask you in the interview.

Biggest thing is to be honest and regarldless of the reason, treat it like it was a learning experience. As others have said, one bust is a non-issue as long as you are open/honest about it. Multiple busts get people concerned...especially after Colgan 3407.
 
One ride not a big deal 2 even is not a show stopper...but be damn honest about it because it will come back on your FOIA report. I've seen many pulled from class on week 2 or 3 of indoc who thought the employer wouldn't find out...then you get to add fired for lying on your PRIA, which will follow you forever._


3 is usually the cut off for the airlines

Per above a line check or type ride is what can really leave a black eye because your supposed to be a developed professional at that point..
 
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Aviatrix said:
My boyfriend failed his CFI the first time mainly because the DPE thought he was too young to be an instructor, but he's had no problems at getting a job as a CFI and airline pilot.
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That's a candyass reason to bust someone...I was 20 when I got my CFI. Was I too young?
 
dell30rb said:
...
Another friend who flies 121 said that he figured one or two failed initial checkrides (private, instrument, comm, multi) would not be a big deal, but if after you become a pro pilot, you fail the company administered recurrent training - that would be a problem. Apparently you have to really really screw up to fail one of those.
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+1

Failing a initial ride ain't that big of a deal, too many factors, first off this is a NEW skill to you, second your CFI plays a major role.

Failing a 135 or 121 ride, yea that's not going to be good, these are skills you should ALREADY KNOW, skills you should be performing (more or less) everyday at work.
 
GCA319 said:
That's a candyass reason to bust someone...I was 20 when I got my CFI. Was I too young?
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Remember with posts like that, we're only hearing one side of the story.
 
Skylane81E said:
I don't think it is unfair to exclude applicants showing a pattern of failed rides, shows you were not only striving for the minimum standard, but missed.

A couple? Meh everyone has a bad day and check rides tend to be among the most stressful flights taken, especially at the lower training levels.
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I heard Cessna will not hire an A&P who failed one of his tests. Seems fair but there are other places to work for those who fail one of their tests.
 
With the amount of money you have invested, the only thing you need worry about is getting finished. There are jobs that will hire you. As far as going directly to regional s its all a matter of timing sometimes they are crying for new guys other times they are pickier than hell. In the last ten years we have seen both helter skelter. So don't worry about what you cannot control. As Nike says "Just do it."

If you have to take a stint flying Beech 18's or Aztrucks on check runs to build time so be it. You can always go to some far flung reaches that is desperate for pilots such as Alaska, India or China and do a 24 month gig.

Do not sweat the small **** and its all small ****.




JDavison said:
Hello folks,

I'm John from New Jersey and I have just registered myself to this site today. I'm currently training at ATP flight schools for my certificates and working on getting my last one right now, the CFII.

Well it looks like i'm the one on the really bad fix now as I have three checkride failures. Failed the Oral exam on the CFI Initial (MEI), than failed the steep turns on the Commercial single engine (went 200 ft below instead of PTS minimums of plus or minus 100ft during roll out from the turn), and sadly the third failure was the oral exam for the CFII this past 7/1/13. Going to definitely regroup and try again but it looks like this is possibly the end for me with my options for my opportunity in the Regionals. Was aiming for ExpressJet or American Eagle. :( Think they all offer waivers for these kind of busts?? Atleast i'm told that I can fly perfectly well. I'm just struggling to get my knowledge on teaching straightened up.
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It is very situational. When I interview pilots, some have better ways of talking about previous checkride failures than others. Good interview prep can significantly help. If the applicant answers honestly and describes how he/she learned from the event, it is usually a non-issue.
 
Tony_Scarpelli said:
...

If you have to take a stint flying Beech 18's or Aztrucks on check runs to build time so be it. You can always go to some far flung reaches that is desperate for pilots such as Alaska, India or China and do a 24 month gig.
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Dude... Flying beech 18s in far away places IS THE RESAON I am a career pilot.

Id even do a stint flying come cracker jack airliner for a sweet D18 job!

If you know of any of these horrible jobs PLEASE PM THEM TO ME :)
 
Aviatrix said:
My boyfriend failed his CFI the first time mainly because the DPE thought he was too young to be an instructor, but he's had no problems at getting a job as a CFI and airline pilot.
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You say mainly because of age, what were other factors of failure?
 
NineThreeKilo said:
Dude... Flying beech 18s in far away places IS THE RESAON I am a career pilot.

Id even do a stint flying come cracker jack airliner for a sweet D18 job!

If you know of any of these horrible jobs PLEASE PM THEM TO ME :)
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I'm with you on that! I'd love a flying job in AK in the "low and slow" planes. Beech 18, C208B, C206, Twin Otter, Beaver; give me any of em'...
 
Greetings I'm new to the forum and recently began pursuing my Commercial SEL after getting my private and instrument some years ago. My issue is that I've busted the checkride twice in the last three weeks. First time was for missing the radio call in the pattern on base and final (in the midst of the obligatory gear "failure"). Radio became an issue when the DPE told me to call up approach and get traffic advisories whereas in my training we went out to the practice area and all radio calls were in the pattern or on the local practice area frequency or our home base Class D tower (now add on a chatty approach and well.... Ok took it in stride.....The second time I was down to my shortfield landing when in the flare the DPE took control and landed. Well I felt the plane settling the last few feet and as I've always done in that situation I added power to control the touchdown and that's when the DPE said I've got it and put it down the last 5 feet or so. According to the DPE I was going to land hard and possibly side load the gear. Obviously the REF called me for a penalty and in that case the decision is final........backing up a little... one thing that I think makes the shortfield a crapshoot is the 50 ft obstacle. That is subjective as its a notional obstacle at a random distance from the threshold. We have to simulate with an altimeter reading whereas a real obstacle is right out the window to fly over. Thing is I don't see the 50ft obstacle requirement in the PTS. On what basis is that enforced by the DPE on the landing?.......I know a lot to read before the actual question...lol
 
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