BSA Aviation Merit Badge Counseling

[iamtheari]

I was asked to be a merit badge counselor for the boys in one of the local Boy Scout troops who want to get their Aviation merit badge. They have a much more experienced local pilot (ATP, MEI, etc.) to give a classroom presentation but asked me to show them around the airport and planes and take those with parental consent up for a short flight. I am looking for some guidance from those who have done something similar, including Young Eagles flights.

My plan is to meet the scouts in the public parking lot and show them the gate and explain the basic rules of security, safety, and courtesy at small airports like ours. We can check out the under-construction terminal, maybe the maintenance hangar full of interesting half-apart planes, any planes parked on the ramp, and then the J-3 and Arrow that I fly. We can talk about how to identify high vs. low wing, tricycle vs. taildragger, single vs. twin, turboprop vs. piston, and jet vs. propeller. Maybe the weather mod crew will be here by then and we can look at the special equipment they have. Same with the spray planes if any are parked outside that day.

Then I can put two of them at a time in the front seats of the Arrow and explain the basic flight instruments. That's on the merit badge syllabus so I want to show them in person what they look like. Our plane has a standard six-pack so it's a good one to use for that demonstration.

What else should I tell them or show them on the ground? We don't have a control tower or I would arrange a tour of that. But I'm all ears for other ideas.

If any of them go flying, I'd also like to set up a routine so they all get the same ride and can compare notes later. I'm torn on whether to demonstrate stalls, but after azpilot's thread about "engine stalls" I will definitely try to explain very clearly that "power off stall" does not mean that the engine has stalled. What is a good routine for introductory flights to kids who are interested in aviation but not necessarily experienced with it? Here's what I have in mind right now (the first two and last one can be done as a group just once, before the first group goes up and after the last group comes down respectively).

1. Passenger briefing including flight plan review of the route we will fly, discussing landmarks on the sectional that we can try to identify from above as well as what they can help me out with in the plane, mostly looking for other airplanes and keeping a sterile cockpit during critical phases of flight
2. Preflight inspection
3. Engine start
4. Taxi
5. Runup
6. Normal takeoff
7. Demonstrate how the airplane climbs, levels off, and turns
8. Fly over a couple of local landmarks in a way that all three passengers get a view of them
9. Demonstrate a power-off glide to show that the plane can fly without engine power as long as we manage our airspeed and head directly for a safe landing site, maybe give a prize for which passenger identifies the best emergency landing site
10. Return and enter traffic pattern
11. Forward slip to show how the plane descends more rapidly at the same forward speed when we increase drag
12. Normal landing, taxi back, engine shutdown
13. Debrief

As with the ground stuff, I'd be happy to hear suggestions for how to get the most bang for our buck with a short but positive and informative introductory flight for scouting-age children. I'm adding a poll about power-off stalls. If I demonstrate one of those, I'll be sure to learn from @azpilot's recent thread and try very hard beforehand to make clear that "power off stall" does not mean that the engine has stalled and is no longer capable of providing power.

 

[Zeldman]

For kids interested to sit in a plane and take a short flight, keep it a sight seeing trip. Make that the memorable part. Throwing in a stall and all they will remember is that they almost crashed, no matter how much information you give them before the flight.

 

[jordane93]

For kids interested to sit in a plane and take a short flight, keep it a sight seeing trip. Make that the memorable part. Throwing in a stall and all they will remember is that they almost crashed, no matter how much information you give them before the flight.

+1

 

[AggieMike88]

For kids interested to sit in a plane and take a short flight, keep it a sight seeing trip. Make that the memorable part. Throwing in a stall and all they will remember is that they almost crashed, no matter how much information you give them before the flight.

+ 2, 3 and 4

And since my C182 has altitude hold, I'll engage that to provide them resistance against pushing and pulling the yoke, but still allow them to "steer" the aircraft per my "see that landmark out to the right or left? Steer the airplane to line up and fly toward that" instructions.

And kid depending, I'll also coach them on how to ask for take off clearance and let them do that if they want. If needed, I have an index card with the words written on it they can use.

 

[MAKG1]

This problem has been solved before.

Young Eagles does first flights, and so does CAP. You can read the CAP syllabus online. https://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/P052_007_9F576CAE3B358.pdf . Remember, you are only doing ONE flight, so powered #1 (syllabus 6) is appropriate.

If you just stick to basic airplane parts and controls, airport ops, safety, checklists, and a short hop, you are still going to blast the kids with far more information than they can handle. There is no time for maneuvers at all, let alone stalls and steep turns.

Typically, I'll take pairs of kids between a towered and nontowered airport on their first flights. I'll put one in the front seat and let him "fly" (with direction) to the vicinity of the destination airport, always above 1000 AGL. I level out and trim the plane on the first flight.

I don't use the autopilot at all, and put the MFD in "reversionary" mode to cut down on the video game effect (if I can get my hands on a steam gauge airplane, so much the better). The only instruments I introduce them to are the altimeter and ASI. Everything else is using the horizon.

 

[DutchRoller]

Why stop at stalls? Go for a spin or two. That will scare the poop out of them little boogers!

 

[frfly172]

An introductory flight should be passive,without anything that could be considered dangerous to a novice. If your doing an introductory flight to show off ,give it up.

 

[jbarrass]

I vote no stalls.

I do recommend letting them hold the controls and make a shallow turn or two. They'll spend the next month at school telling their friends they flew the plane.

Also, BSA will require another adult with you in the plane so keep that in mind. This person should have a camera.

 

[mondtster]

Rather than get carried away with things, it might be best to buy the BSA merit badge book and see what the requirements are to earn the badge. Base your flight off of meeting those requirements.

It has been a few years since I've helped with the merit badge but I seem to recall that the badge requirements do not really parallel anything we normally do in flight training, it is more of an attempt to expose the kids to aviation and possibly get them thinking about an aviation career (one of the requirements is to research an aviation related job). Fussing over stuff that pilots would normally do or learn during their flight training on their way to a private pilot rating may not be necessary and just giving them a nice, fun intro ride might be the most beneficial.

 

[weilke]

No.

Short flight, shallow turns, no bumpy weather.

No long drawn out lectures and explanations that overwhelm them. 'Pull this here, plane goes up, push it, plane goes down, turn this thing left for left and right for right, those pedals are brake and accelerator'

No mention of 'crashing' or peoply dying. None of that.

 

[iamtheari]

An introductory flight should be passive,without anything that could be considered dangerous to a novice. If your doing an introductory flight to show off ,give it up.

Showing off is definitely not my goal. But it's a good point and probably the goal should be to actively not show off.

 

[texashikergal02]

Having done a lot of Angel Flights, the kids are more interested in sightseeing, and maybe taking the controls just to say 'they' flew the plane (I always offer, and so far, nobody has turned me down). Also, keep most of the walk-and-talk to just what they need to understand for the merit badge, plus general 'safety around airplanes' is always good. But, of course, encourage lots of questions, and you'll find the boy who is really interested in flying, as opposed to the one who is just trying to get another badge.

 

[Mason]

I wouldn't do stalls or banks over 20º

 

[Ravioli]

No stalls.. but if the air is calm I'd add letting them get a little stick time. They'll never forget that! (oops.. Kathy already said that!)

 

[Frogs97]

Did this very thing last weekend. Definitely do the pre-flight because it's part of the requirement. Taking a flight is one of the options, but there is a form that you need to submit to the local counsel if you are going to take kids up. The form highly suggests going through Young Eagles for the flights.

Also, the form requires that any pilots have 250 hrs.

Good luck.

 

[flyingron]

I did a bunch of merit badge kids. They had to do a preflight and we discussed the control surfaces, but the flying part wasn't any different than the usual YE type joy ride I do.

We pretty much told the BSA to suck eggs on their requirements over what the YE required. Never had any issues.

 

[iamtheari]

Frogs97 and flyingron: What did your joy ride flight consist of? How long did you go up with the kids? Did you just point things out for them to look at or did you make any games of it for them to find things with their own eyes?

 

[murphey]

I vote no stalls.

I do recommend letting them hold the controls and make a shallow turn or two. They'll spend the next month at school telling their friends they flew the plane.

Also, BSA will require another adult with you in the plane so keep that in mind. This person should have a camera.

Interesting....Orientation rides are the only time a second adult is not a second participant.

 

[455 Bravo Uniform]

Forget #11.
Maybe 1or 2 kids will get it.
And 1 or 2 will hate it.
And it will be just another part of the ride for the rest, just a blur, the detail of which will soon be forgotten, and just a cool memory of an awesome day remaining...so don't waste your time or breath on fwd slips.

Just go fly. Being a kid in a plane that takes off, flies, and lands is all.

 

[murphey]

Forget #11.
Maybe 1or 2 kids will get it.
And 1 or 2 will hate it.
And it will be just another part of the ride for the rest, just a blur, the detail of which will soon be forgotten, and just a cool memory of an awesome day remaining...so don't waste your time or breath on fwd slips.

Just go fly. Being a kid in a plane that takes off, flies, and lands is all.

Skip # 9 and 11. This is not a time to show off being a pilot with checkride maneuvers, it's the time to demonstrate flight to people you want to encourage to learn to fly. Talk to a Young Eagle pilot and do a flight like that.

 

[iamtheari]

Talk to a Young Eagle pilot and do a flight like that.

There are no Young Eagle pilots nearby, or I would do that. I'm asking here as a second best bet.

I think everyone's advice is spot on. I forget that very few kids are nerds who want to absorb and learn everything they possibly can from every experience. I'll plan on sight-seeing and just enough knowledge to complete their merit badge requirements. They're supposed to be able to draw the basic flight instruments so I'll show them what those look like, but mostly just show them things like their school.

 

[James331]

You want to clean up after they barf all of the food color ridden slop their parents feed them after you do a few stalls??

I'd skip the stalls and treat it like a egg basket.

 

[3393RP]

I was asked to be a merit badge counselor for the boys in one of the local Boy Scout troops who want to get their Aviation merit badge. They have a much more experienced local pilot (ATP, MEI, etc.) to give a classroom presentation but asked me to show them around the airport and planes and take those with parental consent up for a short flight. I am looking for some guidance from those who have done something similar, including Young Eagles flights.

My plan is to meet the scouts in the public parking lot and show them the gate and explain the basic rules of security, safety, and courtesy at small airports like ours. We can check out the under-construction terminal, maybe the maintenance hangar full of interesting half-apart planes, any planes parked on the ramp, and then the J-3 and Arrow that I fly. We can talk about how to identify high vs. low wing, tricycle vs. taildragger, single vs. twin, turboprop vs. piston, and jet vs. propeller. Maybe the weather mod crew will be here by then and we can look at the special equipment they have. Same with the spray planes if any are parked outside that day.

Then I can put two of them at a time in the front seats of the Arrow and explain the basic flight instruments. That's on the merit badge syllabus so I want to show them in person what they look like. Our plane has a standard six-pack so it's a good one to use for that demonstration.

What else should I tell them or show them on the ground? We don't have a control tower or I would arrange a tour of that. But I'm all ears for other ideas.

If any of them go flying, I'd also like to set up a routine so they all get the same ride and can compare notes later. I'm torn on whether to demonstrate stalls, but after azpilot's thread about "engine stalls" I will definitely try to explain very clearly that "power off stall" does not mean that the engine has stalled. What is a good routine for introductory flights to kids who are interested in aviation but not necessarily experienced with it? Here's what I have in mind right now (the first two and last one can be done as a group just once, before the first group goes up and after the last group comes down respectively).

1. Passenger briefing including flight plan review of the route we will fly, discussing landmarks on the sectional that we can try to identify from above as well as what they can help me out with in the plane, mostly looking for other airplanes and keeping a sterile cockpit during critical phases of flight
2. Preflight inspection
3. Engine start
4. Taxi
5. Runup
6. Normal takeoff
7. Demonstrate how the airplane climbs, levels off, and turns
8. Fly over a couple of local landmarks in a way that all three passengers get a view of them
9. Demonstrate a power-off glide to show that the plane can fly without engine power as long as we manage our airspeed and head directly for a safe landing site, maybe give a prize for which passenger identifies the best emergency landing site
10. Return and enter traffic pattern
11. Forward slip to show how the plane descends more rapidly at the same forward speed when we increase drag
12. Normal landing, taxi back, engine shutdown
13. Debrief

As with the ground stuff, I'd be happy to hear suggestions for how to get the most bang for our buck with a short but positive and informative introductory flight for scouting-age children. I'm adding a poll about power-off stalls. If I demonstrate one of those, I'll be sure to learn from @azpilot's recent thread and try very hard beforehand to make clear that "power off stall" does not mean that the engine has stalled and is no longer capable of providing power.

So another pilot (an ATP and MEI no less) is going to give a "classroom presentation", and you're also going to subject them to everything you have listed?

This is not good. You're making it way too complicated. Most merit badges involve two or three hours of work. Kids are gonna glaze over with all the stuff you have listed.

I think you have a lot of stuff that isn't focused on flying. Airport security and such? The badge is for learning about airplanes. Keep it simple.

When I was doing the aviation badge, I used a R/C plane to explain the basics of lift and how control surfaces steered the plane. When we went to the airport I showed them a basic preflight and the control surfaces. I let the boys sit in the plane and gave them a brief rundown on what they were seeing.

Then we went up in the tower and the controllers were very nice and showed the boys how everything worked.

I made up a review sheet with questions, the kids answered them and we were done.

As for the flying part, you need to remember you are in an environment that will have quite a bit of noise going on. Do you really think you can do all the stuff you listed in any meaningful way? Besides, what you propose is ridiculously complicated. Power off glide? Forward slip?

You aren't an instructor, you're taking kids for a ride. Explaining all that in the noisy environment of a small plane isn't a good idea. I question your decision making on this. Diverting your attention from flying the plane to that extent seems a bit much.

You are going to lose them with all the stuff you have proposed. It's too much. Way too much.

 

[flyingron]

Frogs97 and flyingron: What did your joy ride flight consist of? How long did you go up with the kids? Did you just point things out for them to look at or did you make any games of it for them to find things with their own eyes?

Neither, we talked about the controls before the flight and showed how that worked in the air. Can't say that navigation or other games were in the syllabus for the merit badge, but it's been a few years since I did this.

 

[UngaWunga]

Base the decision on stalls by seeing if the kids would be freaked out by it or not. Ask the kids if they like roller coasters. If they do, include the stalls.

 

[Acrodustertoo]

You seem like you are taking this the right way. You are very excited to be involved and are being very thorough. However, remember to just cover the basics of how an airplane works, the flight controls, how the airport runways/taxiways work and then give them a nice smooth and enjoyable flight. If they are from the same troop then they should all live in the same part of town, you could plan on flying them over their schools and homes. They like that kind of stuff.

Best of luck and thank you for doing this.

 

[bflynn]

For the youth protection program, a second adult is not required if two scouts are present. The goal is to prevent one on one contact and two scouts do that. Sometimes that isn't possible. My son did his merit badge flight in a cub, so obviously it was just the two of them. No worries there.

The merit badge requirement related to flying is "Take a flight in an aircraft, with your parent's permission. Record the date, place, type of aircraft, and duration of flight, and report on your impressions of the flight." So you don't need to do anything at all other than fly and build positive impressions.

 

[iamtheari]

If they are from the same troop then they should all live in the same part of town, you could plan on flying them over their schools and homes. They like that kind of stuff.

We have two troops covering the same geographic area, which is about twice the size of Rhode Island. Schools are easy as they're all in the same town. Homes could take longer than my fuel endurance.

Regarding what I show them on the ground, by airport security I mean just to tell them "This is the airport fence. Don't cross it unless you are accompanied by a pilot." Safety is "Don't to close to a plane with its engine running." Not an hour lecture on each topic but something for them to learn and hopefully help them not to go out drag racing on the runway when they get their licenses in a year or two.

I'm planning to keep it simple, but I still want the kids who want to learn something to have the opportunity. Hence the idea of "spot the landmark" games, so the kids in the back can participate more and to keep them all engaged and having fun.

 

[Acrodustertoo]

We have two troops covering the same geographic area, which is about twice the size of Rhode Island. Schools are easy as they're all in the same town. Homes could take longer than my fuel endurance.

Regarding what I show them on the ground, by airport security I mean just to tell them "This is the airport fence. Don't cross it unless you are accompanied by a pilot." Safety is "Don't to close to a plane with its engine running." Not an hour lecture on each topic but something for them to learn and hopefully help them not to go out drag racing on the runway when they get their licenses in a year or two.

I'm planning to keep it simple, but I still want the kids who want to learn something to have the opportunity. Hence the idea of "spot the landmark" games, so the kids in the back can participate more and to keep them all engaged and having fun.

WOW! That is a big area. Scratch that off the list then. You are taking the right approach to this. Better to be prepared. I hope all goes well for you and the troops. My wife now is running our Girl Scout organization, the previous lady is looking at some serious felony charges for all the missing money and has now put their "non profit" status in jeopardy. She has a ways to go to get it back on track but do far it is looking good for the troop.

I know the kids will enjoy it and hope you enjoy it as well. Keep us updated and take some pictures.

 

[murphey]

Two questions:
1) do you have a group of qualified people to act as ground crew - escorts, safety, etc?
2) if not, why not?
3) if you are at a towered airport, have you contacted the tower chief a few days in advance and coordinated with them as to procedures?

At our tower, each YE aircraft gets a unique transponder code during the rallye, and for the 3 hours of the rallye, no T&G or practice approaches. Annoys some of the CFIs, but as I keep reminding them, these are potential customers. Come by the classroom, introduce yourself, drop off flyers.

As a Young Eagle pilot and Ground School Instructor (2hrs the evening before the YE Rallye), here's the EAA 301 flight plan.

The YE is escorted (often with a parent) out to the airplane to meet the pilot.

NO ONE is on the ramp without an escort! This is an active airport with lots of traffic on the ramp. We have an outside area that's roped off for people who want to hang out in the sunshine. No one goes past that roped area without an escort.​

Pilot & escort get the YE settled, headset, seatbelt, etc.
Parent inevitably takes photos.

Option 1 - Escort takes parent back to the staging area
Option 2 - Parent gets in the back seat.
Note: we have both 2 set & 4 seat aircraft, luck of the draw, and the YE gets to decide if the parent comes along in the 4 seater.​

Taxi, takeoff, etc. by pilot
Once we get to pattern altitude, the YE is offered the controls.
We talk the YE thru turns, climbs, descents.

If parent in the back, I love the freakout look on the face when they realize I'm sitting there with my arms folded, not touching the controls.
If parent not in the back, and the YE is interested, I'll do a steep (30 deg) turn, otherwise everything is standard rate.​

By EAA rules, no aerobatics. Intentional stalls are in this category.
Within 5 nm of the airport, pilot takes the controls again
Land, official photo, certificate & logbook

From start to finish (YE arrives at the airplane), usually about 30 min for me. I'm in no rush and it's fun.

And it's a tax deduction, Schedule A. Fuel, oil, driving RT home to the airport. I just take the mileage and actual fuel cost.

I'll often take a parent who expresses interest after we fly all the kids.

I should point out that our Ground Crew Lead (Russ) and YE Coordinator (Rudy) were recently honored by EAA at AirVenture. We hold a rallye once a month and are booked out 18 months. Boy Scouts (Girl Scouts aren't allowed to fly but that's an offline discussion, Sea Scouts, Denver Public Schools, Aurora Public Schools, Wings over the Rockies Museum (our "southern" operation that flys out of KAPA), and a couple of non-profits.

Last week I flew 5 flights - was exhausted. We were missing 3-4 of our regular pilot/airplanes with a full house of kids. No option for the parent flights.

The level of concentration on a YE flight is upped because it's not only the regular concentration of flying, but also monitoring the kid. Pretty much like being a CFI on the first flight with a new student.

We don't stay in the pattern, and our policy is 1 YE, 1 Flight. We don't load up the airplane and count each kid as a YE flight just to go around the pattern.

If you like, I can send you the CAP O-Ride flight plan. It's longer for a number of reasons, not the least of which is the unbelievable "paperwork" (online) and checklists we have to go thru (but that's any CAP flight, not just O-Rides). More time in the air, tho.

 

[murphey]

I was asked to be a merit badge counselor for the boys in one of the local Boy Scout troops who want to get their Aviation merit badge. They have a much more experienced local pilot (ATP, MEI, etc.) to give a classroom presentation but asked me to show them around the airport and planes and take those with parental consent up for a short flight. I am looking for some guidance from those who have done something similar, including Young Eagles flights.

My plan is to meet the scouts in the public parking lot and show them the gate and explain the basic rules of security, safety, and courtesy at small airports like ours. We can check out the under-construction terminal, maybe the maintenance hangar full of interesting half-apart planes, any planes parked on the ramp, and then the J-3 and Arrow that I fly. We can talk about how to identify high vs. low wing, tricycle vs. taildragger, single vs. twin, turboprop vs. piston, and jet vs. propeller.

The classroom presentation should cover this.

Maybe the weather mod crew will be here by then and we can look at the special equipment they have. Same with the spray planes if any are parked outside that day.

What is weather mod?

Then I can put two of them at a time in the front seats of the Arrow and explain the basic flight instruments.
That's on the merit badge syllabus so I want to show them in person what they look like. Our plane has a standard six-pack so it's a good one to use for that demonstration.

The classroom presentation should cover this.

What else should I tell them or show them on the ground? We don't have a control tower or I would arrange a tour of that. But I'm all ears for other ideas.

If any of them go flying, I'd also like to set up a routine so they all get the same ride and can compare notes later.

Check my posting down the thread.

I'm torn on whether to demonstrate stalls, but after azpilot's thread about "engine stalls" I will definitely try to explain very clearly that "power off stall" does not mean that the engine has stalled.

The classroom presentation should cover how an airplane stalls.

The state Aeronautics Division (part of Dept of Transportation) is on the same field. They give me all the outdated materials and I hand the maps out to the kids at the end of the ground school. Kids love tangible stuff.

 

[iamtheari]

What is weather mod?

Short for weather modification, the guys who seed clouds. We usually have two unpressurized twins for the summer to reduce crop damage from hail storms, and I thought that showing the kids the interesting cloud seeding gear hanging from the wings would help them see how many different things we use aviation for. With our agriculture and oil economy, I think a lot of them are going to have parents whose jobs are somehow touched by aviation: pipeline patrol, weather mod, crop dusting, medevac, etc. One of the merit badge requirements is for them to write a little bit about a career in aviation.

If you like, I can send you the CAP O-Ride flight plan. It's longer for a number of reasons, not the least of which is the unbelievable "paperwork" (online) and checklists we have to go thru (but that's any CAP flight, not just O-Rides). More time in the air, tho.

I'd appreciate anything you can send. The post that I quoted this out of was very helpful already. Thanks!

 

[ARFlyer]

You'll need to fill this out and give it to the local council at least two weeks, to which I'd say a month in advanced. http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/19-672WB_fillable.pdf

You also need to see if it will pass the smell test among the local council leaders. Some are extremely risk adverse now days and will only approve it through EAA or CAP known members/pilots. Even some councils will flat out deny the request as it's to risky for the children. Good luck!

I'd stick to normal introductory flying. If most of the scouts live close by you could always show them their house.

 

[murphey]

Short for weather modification, the guys who seed clouds. We usually have two unpressurized twins for the summer to reduce crop damage from hail storms, and I thought that showing the kids the interesting cloud seeding gear hanging from the wings would help them see how many different things we use aviation for. With our agriculture and oil economy, I think a lot of them are going to have parents whose jobs are somehow touched by aviation: pipeline patrol, weather mod, crop dusting, medevac, etc. One of the merit badge requirements is for them to write a little bit about a career in aviation.


I'd appreciate anything you can send. The post that I quoted this out of was very helpful already. Thanks!

I just went thru the CAP O-ride spec - it's far more detailed than you need - or want! Go for the YE version I posted. If you need a release form (I just point out "the lawyers make me do this") then get the EAA Young Eagle form and adapt to your own use.

 

[azpilot]

I'm not voting. I'm not going through this again.

 

[iamtheari]

We had 10 kids sign up so I took 4 flights today. Everyone had a great time, despite the wind being 20G30 all day and the temperature hitting 90F, resulting in light chop of both mechanical and convective forms. Total of 3.3 hours in the logbook, 4 landings that I actually had to work for, and a whole lot of smiles. Thanks again for all the tips above to make these flights a success.

 

[oilburner]

Any pilot who is similarly motivated to introduce Boy Scouts to aviation can contact their area Scout Service Center and register as a Merit Badge Counselor for this Aviation Merit Badge.
Volunteering to introduce youth to aviation promotes it's value in a great way.

 

[JohnAJohnson]

Concur with oilburner. I was one of the first (if not the first) Boy Scout in South Louisiana (Istrouma Council) to get an Aviation merit badge. I had an interest in aviation and my friend's dad was a B-17 8th AF guy. I talked him into doing it, and he taught me basics about engines, aerodynamics, etc., and borrowed a friend's Piper and took me for a flight. I flew for a while and he told me to follow the river. We were doing maybe 60 mph, and the river was the mile wide Mississippi so it really wasn't that hard, but I felt a sense of accomplishment. A good experience! Give them something fun to do that they won't fail at.