broken alternator wire. why did it fail?

Anyone want to share a link to an appropriate crimper? I have a cheap smasher, and a few ratcheting for various special purposes like molex connectors. I would like a proper general purpose one.

(I'm a tool and flashlight whore).
 
Back when we switched to using ratcheting crimpers, I found on the 'net somewhere, the MIL specs for the crimp sizes. I made three test gauges for the yellow, blue and red sizes. Machined them out of steel, and each had a stub with two diameters on it. With the crimper fully closed, the smaller diameter should go into the dies, the larger should not. A go-no go gauge. Some people will use small lengths of lead, crimping them and measuring the result. Lead has no springback, so works well for that.

Cheap ratcheting crimpers could be just about anywhere on the accuracy scale.
 
It looks like it was crimped with a cheap crimper, not a ratcheting crimper that will get the correct crush on it and will also crimp the insulator end. The cheap crimpers are no longer acceptable. Been like that for 12 years or more. Refer to AC 43.13-1B for info on that.

I agree with this. The crimping tool used was probably a $3.99 AutoZone crusher with cut steel crimping surfaces.

A properly calibrated mechanical ratchet crimper with dies sized and shaped for the particular size of wire and connector provides the proper tension on the connector/wire interface, and also contributes mechanical strength by crimping the connector insulation onto the wire insulation.

I prefer to use connectors that have an extended insulation sleeve made with heat shrinkable material and a hot melt adhesive inside the sleeve. When the connector is properly crimped and a heat source applied, the reduced sleeve diameter and the adhesive make a joint that provides strain support and is sealed against intrusion of moisture and oils.
 
Anyone want to share a link to an appropriate crimper? I have a cheap smasher, and a few ratcheting for various special purposes like molex connectors. I would like a proper general purpose one.

(I'm a tool and flashlight whore).

The Greenlee 45500:

IDW_IMAGE_310878aefcbe470a2e2cf40018437ad5d834096dd42a65a9ea7b51bbcb01a737_HR.jpeg
 
I haven't used these heat shrink connectors, but wondered if they were beneficial as opposed to regular heat shrink.
As with most everything I'm sure it's a matter of quality, but the idea seems pretty good...especially for corrosion prevention.
One downside might be having to cut more wire off if you need to repair/replace

Here's a link, but there are a bunch of different ones on Amazon.
Anyone tried them?


upload_2022-2-18_10-9-13.png
 
The "official" MIL crimpers for the AMP PIDG crimp terminals are the AMP 59250 (for the red 22-16 and blue 16-14 sizes) and 59239-4 (for the 12-10 sizes). Those are quite pricey new, but can be picked up used for a lot less. They have some nice features like wire stops to position the wire in the right place. The catalog lists the tooling (https://www.te.com/commerce/Documen...lishENG_DS_1773464-1_QRG_PIDG_1901.pdf35151)
 
One other thing: stripping the insulation off the wire can be tricky. If that stripper is cheap, or the wrong strip size is used, you nick the copper wires and they will soon break. Copper work-hardens rapidly as it flexes, and a nick will bring on failure a lot sooner. One the nicked wires fail, the rest get flexed more (and have to carry all the current) and they will soon fail as well.

I use a stripper similar to this. Anything else is inadequate. The cheaper "automatic" strippers just bite opposite sides of the insulation, not the circumference, and they make a mess and can nick or scratch the wire. I have them, too.

upload_2022-2-18_10-55-3.jpeg
 
I haven't used these heat shrink connectors, but wondered if they were beneficial as opposed to regular heat shrink.
As with most everything I'm sure it's a matter of quality, but the idea seems pretty good...especially for corrosion prevention.
One downside might be having to cut more wire off if you need to repair/replace

Here's a link, but there are a bunch of different ones on Amazon.
Anyone tried them?


View attachment 104736

I use connectors made by Ancor.
 
Second that having a good quality crimping tool is critical. The next thing to me would be a quality brand terminal, sourced from someplace that you can trust. I'd take a plain vanilla 3m, amp, etc., over a no-name or possible clone with heat shrink or other features.
 
It didn't break right at the point where the insulation was stripped, so less likely that the wire was nicked.
It did break right at the edge of the crimp, and the insulation wasn't crimped. This suggests that the wire was supported only by the copper and you had a stress concentration. So, a different connector, different crimp tool, whatever would not have made a difference if you don't actually crimp the connector over the insulation to make for a more gradual stress transition.

My (homebuilt) ride has a crap ton of (I assume) dirt cheap crimped connections (original builder did a lousy job on the electric). The only wires that have actually failed were part of the factory built engine harness.
 
One downside might be having to cut more wire off if you need to repair/replace
FYI: Another downside I've seen is offbrand connectors tend to fail more in unprotected areas like engine compartments due to mfg type. There are name brand equivalents to these types which usually are mfg to SAE or something similar and work just fine. There are also solder splices that are used regularly that perform the connection and shrink all in one step. But even there the knock-off ones use lead-free solder which requires a higher heat value to melt and sometimes cause collateral damage.
 
One other thing: stripping the insulation off the wire can be tricky. If that stripper is cheap, or the wrong strip size is used, you nick the copper wires and they will soon break. Copper work-hardens rapidly as it flexes, and a nick will bring on failure a lot sooner. One the nicked wires fail, the rest get flexed more (and have to carry all the current) and they will soon fail as well.

I use a stripper similar to this. Anything else is inadequate. The cheaper "automatic" strippers just bite opposite sides of the insulation, not the circumference, and they make a mess and can nick or scratch the wire. I have them, too.

View attachment 104739
once you use these you will never go back - they are that good, ease of use, speed and quality.
 
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It was crimped with one of these. I think you can get them for less than four bucks.

P3-Wire-crimper.jpg

Aside from using a proper crimper you also must use the correct size terminal (both ring and barrel) Otherwise well, you see what happens.
 
It was crimped with one of these. I think you can get them for less than four bucks.

View attachment 104861

There was a time when those were actually not bad. I have a pair, American-made, from the 1970s. They did a decent job, for what they were. Most all of them now are cheap imports that have no consistency in either stripping or crimping, and they don't even cut screws neatly. One would be better off flattening the crimp with a hammer on an anvil.
 
Apparently good crimp on my 2003 SR22 wasn’t enough to prevent this:

11515518676_df07101e67_o.jpg


Seemed like pretty poor quality for something as important on an “all electric” plane.

My field repair included a larger washer and a tywrap closer to the terminal for better support.

33307199651_fcfb48568c_z.jpg
 
Apparently good crimp on my 2003 SR22 wasn’t enough to prevent this:

11515518676_df07101e67_o.jpg


Seemed like pretty poor quality for something as important on an “all electric” plane.
That comes from not anchoring the wire to something secure nearby. Something that moves with the alternator as it vibrates. I've seen busted stuff like that where the wire was tied to something that didn't move with the terminal, such as the engine mount. That engine, especially a Lycoming on a Dynafocal mount, moves a huge amount during start and shutdown, never mind the usual vibration and propeller torque reaction twisting the engine. And those terminals, like I said, are made of tinned copper, and copper has a bad habit of work-hardening when it's flexed. You have to make sure it's protected against flexing. They last a long time if they're set up right. 1960s airplanes are full of them, still working unless oxidation has ruined their conductivity.

Watch a Lyc start someday when the cowl is off.
 
Is the greenlee better than my ratcheting klein?
Those and others in that quality level are all good. Top shelf gets into STA-KON, DMC, and Pressmaster out of Sweden who OEMs a bunch for other name brands. I lucked out and have several mil surplus STA-KONs. I also keep a HF rachet model in my truck tool bag which works rather well but doesn't seem to hold a depth adjustment as well as others.
 
Those and others in that quality level are all good. Top shelf gets into STA-KON, DMC, and Pressmaster out of Sweden who OEMs a bunch for other name brands. I lucked out and have several mil surplus STA-KONs. I also keep a HF rachet model in my truck tool bag which works rather well but doesn't seem to hold a depth adjustment as well as others.

Woot. Yeah I suck at crimping and love the kleins, the idea that there could be something even better out there is mind-blowing :D

Luckily I only do a few hundred of these a year so I don't think I need the magnum pro-grade, just something better than HF edition.
 
Ive been working in automotive and telecom electronics for over 20 years. I don't fck around when it comes to deployment of components and connections. We support cell sites and other products for a large wireless carrier.Lives depend on our work.When done properly, there should only be strong reliable connections, that mitigate failure, w that being said,

Irwin/Vise grip has a blue/yellow handled auto stripper that works really really well for stripping stranded wire. Second, lots of crimpers around for small stranded wire, Ill recommend a crimper from a co called Facom, that mfgs top quality crimpers and more. They're made in France, aren't cheap but have the best anvil on the planet for crimping stranded wire. It crimps at 2 points on the connector and forces proper closure of the leaves that wrap around the stranded wire, once inside of the connector. Every crimp comes out as perfect as can be, and the handles are easy on your hands. Snap On cant touch Facom wire management tools,Ive seen some really bad crimps on aircraft wiring. HArd to believe someone actually charged for doing it. but the one in the pic, looks like someone used a ****ty flat entry level flat crimper that exerts minimal force on the connection, leaving wiring to just pull out and cause damage.Spending 5 minutes on a connection isn't much compared to the result of a failed connection.Glad you found the issue.Never fun chasing a "gremlin"...HTH
 
What a good crimp from a good crimper looks like.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/CrimpTools/crimptools.html

Anatomy of a good terminal crimp.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/terminal.pdf

I have used the Amp Procrimper for years. Great for one handed operation while upside down under the instrument panel.

Cheap terminals + cheap crimper = failure looking to happen.
Best article Ive seen on practical connections, glad they addressed how solder today is... a joke? LOL agreed except for some older uhf and vhf antenna coax ( big stuff) thanks for sharing that!
 
Recently posted a YouTube video about this on a 172S. Alternator power wire broken in the same place. People over crimp terminals and it stresses the wire at the crimp making it brittle. Also on stuff inside the cowl we always crimp, solder the end and run heat shrink over it for extra support.
 
Recently posted a YouTube video about this on a 172S. Alternator power wire broken in the same place. People over crimp terminals and it stresses the wire at the crimp making it brittle. Also on stuff inside the cowl we always crimp, solder the end and run heat shrink over it for extra support.
Soldering can produce a short stiff spot at the end of the solder joint, making breakage under vibration or flex more likely.
 
Curious. If the terminal is crimped properly, what do you gain by soldering the tip of the wire?
Ev
Curious. If the terminal is crimped properly, what do you gain by soldering the tip of the wire?
even when properly crimped, you still stress the exterior of the wire bundle. Heat, vibration, and time can exacerbate that process, leading to the outside of the bundle fraying and breaking. I’ve seen the center of a 2 gauge wire pull out of a well crimped terminal, but the center wire that was left exposed looked more like 4-6 gauge wire. If everything after the crimp is soldered it makes it more difficult for the remaining wire to pull free. Hopefully the fraying is caught before the solder is needed, but it’s very little effort for added security. The solder also helps to seal the end of the wire to keep out corrosion inside the crimp.
 
even when properly crimped, you still stress the exterior of the wire bundle.
I’ve seen the center of a 2 gauge wire pull out of a well crimped terminal,
makes it more difficult for the remaining wire to pull free.
I guess I still don’t follow. If you have wire pulling out of proper crimps or wire failure that is more indicative of an installation problem than a crimp issue. For example, insufficient strain relief or harness support issues would lead to those type issues. There are a number of guides that detail methods to prevent that. Most of the failures I ran/run across were installation related with improper crimps a close second. A proper crimp should be close to the stretch limits of the wire crimped on with some exceptions. Now if you want to go top-shelf follow EWIS guidance as it was specifically designed to prevent the failures you mention but at the transport level.
 
I guess I still don’t follow. If you have wire pulling out of proper crimps or wire failure that is more indicative of an installation problem than a crimp issue. For example, insufficient strain relief or harness support issues would lead to those type issues. There are a number of guides that detail methods to prevent that. Most of the failures I ran/run across were installation related with improper crimps a close second. A proper crimp should be close to the stretch limits of the wire crimped on with some exceptions. Now if you want to go top-shelf follow EWIS guidance as it was specifically designed to prevent the failures you mention but at the transport level.
Don’t care if you follow, it’s my logbook entry and my A&P number. That’s like saying you shouldn’t use a lock washer with a locknut lol.
 
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