Bring on the stupid...

ejensen said:
And MJ was a factor. How much we'll never know. If he was using for back pain, his tolerance may have been very high (npi). Cops are still trying to figure how to quantitatively measure driving stoned.
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That kid that Tony Stewart wrapped around his rear wheel in the Sprint Car race had MJ on board and was racing.
 
Everskyward said:
I disagree. There have been various drugs found during autopsy in pilots for years. Just because something is legal or prescribed doesn't mean you should fly while actively taking it. The same goes for alcohol. It also doesn't mean the the drug was THE cause, although it can be speculated that it might have been a contributing factor.
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Rarely , there is only one contributing factor to an airplane crash, but I'm willing to bet my house, that in this case, flying under the influence of THC is going to be a MAJOR, contributing factor.

Cheers
 
ralarcon said:
Rarely , there is only one contributing factor to an airplane crash, but I'm willing to bet my house, that in this case, flying under the influence of THC is going to be a MAJOR, contributing factor.

Cheers
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Seeing that the probable cause is already out, I would be taking advantage of you by claiming your house. :D

No contributing factors listed.

The pilot was flying the airplane with two passengers on board to search for lost cattle in mountainous terrain. Witnesses observed the airplane maneuvering at a low altitude. The airplane was reported overdue, and the wreckage was subsequently located in a sparsely wooded area. An onboard GPS unit recorded the accident flight and depicted the airplane flying several north and south legs at altitudes ranging between 300 and 500 feet above ground level before the recording ended. The airplane impacted terrain in an extreme nose-low attitude with lateral distortion of the empennage. A postaccident examination of the airframe and engine did not reveal any anomalies that would have precluded normal operation. The wreckage evidence indicated that the pilot likely failed to maintain adequate airspeed while maneuvering at a low altitude, which resulted in an inadvertent aerodynamic stall/spin and subsequent impact with terrain.
Toxicology testing revealed the presence of tetrahydrocannabinol in the lung and tetrahydrocannabinol carboxylic acid in the liver and lung, which suggested the recent use of marijuana; however, insufficient evidence existed to determine whether the pilot was impaired by its use at the time of the accident.

The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows:
The pilot’s failure to maintain adequate airspeed while maneuvering at a low altitude, which resulted in an aerodynamic stall/spin and subsequent impact with terrain.
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Everskyward said:
Seeing that the probable cause is already out, I would be taking advantage of you by claiming your house. :D

No contributing factors listed.
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You Jest ! :wink2: Pilot error not caused by mind altering drug .

Cheers
 
ollopa said:
No, no, no. It was "MH" according to the report :lol:
Lesson learned: Lay off the Mark Hamill before going on high-altitude bovine adventures.
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More like lay off the Willie Nelson!!

:rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
ejensen said:
Lesson I see is that you can be the pilot or the observer not both. More than one recon flight has ended badly when folks forget this.

And MJ was a factor. How much we'll never know. If he was using for back pain, his tolerance may have been very high (npi). Cops are still trying to figure how to quantitatively measure driving stoned.
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This is a scenario:

If the pilot had a prescription for MJ and was using it for his back pain, got into an airplane accident but he was within the legal limit of use. The pilot and passengers survived. Would they charge him with anything in Colorado?
 
ralarcon said:
You Jest ! :wink2: Pilot error not caused by mind altering drug .

Cheers
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Plenty of other similar accidents with no drugs involved. We will never know for sure if or how much it contributed.
 
FloridaPilot said:
This is a scenario:

If the pilot had a prescription for MJ and was using it for his back pain, got into an airplane accident but he was within the legal limit of use. The pilot and passengers survived. Would they charge him with anything in Colorado?
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FAA might be interested - it's not legal at the Federal level, which means his insurance company might be interested, too.

If it was prescription, he'd have to report it on his medical.
 
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Everskyward said:
Plenty of other similar accidents with no drugs involved. We will never know for sure if or how much it contributed.
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That is like saying, alcohol was found in the blood and tissues of the driver that killed the family while driving on the opposite side of traffic, in a head on collision, but we do not know why he was driving against the flow of traffic. There are similar accidents with no alcohol involved. Really ? :yikes:

Cheers
 
Had to laugh when I read this in the NTSB report...

"The autopsy noted that found in the pilot's pants pocket was a small container of a "green, leafy material suggestive of marijuana." The substance was not tested to confirm its identity."

:lol:
 
narchee said:
Had to laugh when I read this in the NTSB report...

"The autopsy noted that found in the pilot's pants pocket was a small container of a "green, leafy material suggestive of marijuana." The substance was not tested to confirm its identity."

:lol:
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:lol::rofl::lol::rofl::lol::rofl:
 
FloridaPilot said:
This is a scenario:

If the pilot had a prescription for MJ and was using it for his back pain, got into an airplane accident but he was within the legal limit of use. The pilot and passengers survived. Would they charge him with anything in Colorado?
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That's the point I was trying to make about quantitative determination of impairment from blood/urine testing. Alcohol is pretty will defined, BAC .08 or .05. AFAIK they haven't come up with a test so they rely on impairment alone. No defined, testable legal limit yet. I heard the police have been trained for different eye responses than alcohol.
 
ejensen said:
That's the point I was trying to make about quantitative determination of impairment from blood/urine testing. Alcohol is pretty will defined, BAC .08 or .05. AFAIK they haven't come up with a test so they rely on impairment alone. No defined, testable legal limit yet. I heard the police have been trained for different eye responses than alcohol.
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Well , in alcohol there is impairment well before the illegal limit is reached.

www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCIQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cdc.gov%2FMotorvehiclesafety%2Fimpaired_driving%2Fbac.html&ei=3spLVd_fFsGesQXHz4GQCA&usg=AFQjCNFKROOZQhdlRWFf0L7Q4l3PHbJOAQ&sig2=DqKHQanUgZFSBvlPheYGRw&bvm=bv.92765956,d.b2w


Cheers
 
ralarcon said:
That is like saying, alcohol was found in the blood and tissues of the driver that killed the family while driving on the opposite side of traffic, in a head on collision, but we do not know why he was driving against the flow of traffic. There are similar accidents with no alcohol involved. Really ? :yikes:

Cheers
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Huh? Are you saying that all head-on collisions are due to alcohol? Or that someone driving drunk will surely have a head-on collision?
 
ralarcon said:
And then there is this !

http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/marijuana/does-marijuana-use-affect-driving

Cheers
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ralarcon said:
Well , in alcohol there is impairment well before the illegal limit is reached.

www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCIQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cdc.gov%2FMotorvehiclesafety%2Fimpaired_driving%2Fbac.html&ei=3spLVd_fFsGesQXHz4GQCA&usg=AFQjCNFKROOZQhdlRWFf0L7Q4l3PHbJOAQ&sig2=DqKHQanUgZFSBvlPheYGRw&bvm=bv.92765956,d.b2w


Cheers
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Excellent information. No argument here. It is quantifying the effect based on a blood/breath/urine test that appears to be a problem. After the recreational use law passed Colorado LE had to write a new book.
 
ejensen said:
Excellent information. No argument here. It is quantifying the effect based on a blood/breath/urine test that appears to be a problem. After the recreational use law passed Colorado LE had to write a new book.
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The problem is... Most druggies are still alive to test, or if it is a MV accident, they are quickly in a ER or morgue

Aviation victims are usually not found for hours or days, and in alot of cases are burned beyond recognition...... No chance to perform the Colorado style test.... IMHO...
 
Matthew said:
FAA might be interested - it's not legal at the Federal level, which means his insurance company might be interested, too.
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They are probably more interested in his commercial cow-spotting operation.
 
How do you log cow spotting time in your logbook? Can you include taxi, run up and take off... Or do you limited to time specifically looking for cows?
 
OkieAviator said:
We don't need to examine it, NTSB did and my take away is; Don't fly around low in the mountains, stoned or otherwise.
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Probably good advice if you're not used to it. Plenty of folks here do it successfully, when not stoned.

It's kinda hard to land at mountain airports without going down there... :)
 
Everskyward said:
Seeing that the probable cause is already out, I would be taking advantage of you by claiming your house. :D



No contributing factors listed.
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Yeah, I noticed they had so many choices of possible cause of the accident, that they punted and just wrote up all the stuff they found and left the fun to the reader.
 
I want to get me one of those Garmin GPSmap 496's that records airspeed. (Last paragraph of the report.)
 
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