Blimp flight rules?

WakeNCAgent

WakeNCAgent

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Dec 13, 2012
Messages
133
Location
Raleigh, NC
Display Name
Display name:
Louis
A fellow club member notified everyone that the blimp had landed in Chapel Hill airport (KIGX) for tonight's game vs Miami. That got me wondering. What type of flight rules do you suppose a blimp would follow from town to town? With their limited maneuverability I would suppose that they fly VFR with flight following. Does anyone know for sure?
 
I thought I read somewhere (though I don't at all remember where) that an IR-Airplane allows you to fly a properly equipped and certified blimp under IFR if you hold the appropriate lighter-than-air certificate...

I imagine they get some bizarre clearances though. And no doubt it's easier for them to fly VFR. But if my very hazy memory serves, IFR is possible.
 
mcmanigle said:
I thought I read somewhere (though I don't at all remember where) that an IR-Airplane allows you to fly a properly equipped and certified blimp under IFR if you hold the appropriate lighter-than-air certificate...
Click to expand...
You must be misremembering. Airship instrument privileges come only by getting a CP-LTA-Airship ticket. But once you have that, IFR in a properly equipped blimp is possible. What you may have heard is that you can fly Gliders IFR if you have Glider and Instrument-Airplane ratings.

As for what the Goodyear folks actually do when traveling town to town, I have no idea, but whatever they do, I know they do it slowly.
 
Last edited:
NoHeat said:
There is an instrument rating for airship.
Click to expand...
Negative. Only instrument ratings are for Airplane, Helicopter, and Powered Lift (V-22 or forthcoming Bell 609). Instrument priviliges are included in CP-LTA-Airship. See 61.3 and 61.5 for details.
 
Ron Levy said:
You must be misremembering. Airship instrument privileges come only by getting a CP-LTA-Airship ticket. But once you have that, IFR in a properly equipped blimp is possible.
Click to expand...

I think what he was saying was if you have the LTA-Airship ticket that you can use the IR from your Airplane ticket to operate it under instrument rules.
 
Henning said:
I think what he was saying was if you have the LTA-Airship ticket that you can use the IR from your Airplane ticket to operate it under instrument rules.
Click to expand...
If he was saying that, he was wrong. See 61.3(e). Instrument-Airplane is valid only for Airplanes and Gliders.
 
Last edited:
Texastaildragger said:
You can use instrument rating for Gliders??? How do you go Missed ??
Click to expand...
You get someone to light a rip-roaring bonfire at the departure end of the runway.

Seriously, what glider pilots primarily use that for is getting up in Class A airspace where VFR operation is prohibited. They also use it for penetrating layers. It's not used for flying gliders in 300-1.
 
Henning said:
You don't lol, kinda like the Space Shuttle.
Click to expand...
Or an F-4, for which the last step in the Single Engine/Utility Hydraulic Failure (with or without PC-1/2 Failure) after slowing to final approach speed is "Land or eject".
 
Ron Levy said:
Negative. Only instrument ratings are for Airplane, Helicopter, and Powered Lift (V-22 or forthcoming Bell 609). Instrument priviliges are included in CP-LTA-Airship. See 61.3 and 61.5 for details.
Click to expand...

I'll take your word for it, but how come there is a Practical Test Standard book entitled:

Instrument Rating for Airplane, Helicopter and Airship Practical Test Standards: #FAA-S-8081-4C

I thought that PTS corresponds one-to-one with check rides which correspond one-to-one with certificates or ratings.
 
NoHeat said:
I'll take your word for it, but how come there is a Practical Test Standard book entitled:

Instrument Rating for Airplane, Helicopter and Airship Practical Test Standards: #FAA-S-8081-4C

I thought that PTS corresponds one-to-one with check rides which correspond one-to-one with certificates or ratings.
Click to expand...
You should check the FAA PTS web site again -- no such PTS book any more. Then look at the PTS for CP-LTA, and see the section titled "Instrument Privileges — Airship" for more on how they do that.
 
Didn't realize the book was that old.

Are you saying that there once was an instrument rating for airships, but no longer?
 
Ron Levy said:
If he was saying that, he was wrong. See 61.3(e). Instrument-Airplane is valid only for Airplanes and Gliders.
Click to expand...

Yes, that's what I was saying, and I was wrong. As you suspected, I was mixing it up with the glider situation.
 
NoHeat said:
Didn't realize the book was that old.

Are you saying that there once was an instrument rating for airships, but no longer?
Click to expand...
There may have been once, but not since at least 1978, according to the FAA's Historical CFR's.
 
In my experience in real situations they fly strictly VFR without flight following. I imagine if IMC for a helo is just short of an emergency (which it tends to be) then IMC in an airship would be bad news. They tend not to ask for flight following unless being used as a camera platform I assume due to flying low and possibly below radar at times (other than inside a TFR with waiver). The other reason is they're huge. I've followed one of the Metlife blimps on final before, it was an experience. You can't miss the envelope. As brightly colored and large as they are you'd have to intentionally hit one
 
I was doing a BFR at LVK years ago and the Goodyear blimp called in over the Altamont Pass for a practice ILS. Tower asked them to offset to the left runway so other aircraft could fly the ILS. I did three landings and they were still on approach. They were trying to make SNS (~75nm) by sundown.
 
clear_prop said:
I was doing a BFR at LVK years ago and the Goodyear blimp called in over the Altamont Pass for a practice ILS. Tower asked them to offset to the left runway so other aircraft could fly the ILS. I did three landings and they were still on approach. They were trying to make SNS (~75nm) by sundown.
Click to expand...

Hard to stay current in a blimp! LOL!
 
Ron Levy said:
Or an F-4, for which the last step in the Single Engine/Utility Hydraulic Failure (with or without PC-1/2 Failure) after slowing to final approach speed is "Land or eject".
Click to expand...

Easier said than done. When I got my F-4 seat brief (for a backseat ride), it not only reminded me how old the thing was, but also that I would more than likely die if anything bad happened on takeoff or landing. 3 modes of ejection, the first being I guess "natural", the second and third involving arm and body movements to attempt a canopy jettison that would have resulted in a broken back had they worked. That thing was a death trap, kudos to you fine gents.
 
Ron Levy said:
You get someone to light a rip-roaring bonfire at the departure end of the runway.

Seriously, what glider pilots primarily use that for is getting up in Class A airspace where VFR operation is prohibited. They also use it for penetrating layers. It's not used for flying gliders in 300-1.
Click to expand...

Learn something everyday. Never thought of a glider going to FL18 or above. I guess they would have oxygen?
 
Texastaildragger said:
Learn something everyday. Never thought of a glider going to FL18 or above. I guess they would have oxygen?
Click to expand...

Yep. And they don't really need an IFR rating. In places where such flights are routinely possible, they get a waiver. ATC opens a "wave window" for them to operate VFR.
 
Approach_controller said:
In my experience in real situations they fly strictly VFR without flight following. I imagine if IMC for a helo is just short of an emergency (which it tends to be) then IMC in an airship would be bad news. They tend not to ask for flight following unless being used as a camera platform I assume due to flying low and possibly below radar at times (other than inside a TFR with waiver). The other reason is they're huge. I've followed one of the Metlife blimps on final before, it was an experience. You can't miss the envelope. As brightly colored and large as they are you'd have to intentionally hit one
Click to expand...

When the Zeppelin was flying out of NUQ giving joyrides, they clearly had flight following. I got a couple of traffic reports about them. Somehow "Skyhawk 27H traffic 3 o'clock 3 miles your altitude Zeppelin" isn't very scary.
 
Actually, while airships are not very FAST, they are extremely manouverable. Most can spin on a dime.
 
35 AoA said:
Easier said than done. When I got my F-4 seat brief (for a backseat ride), it not only reminded me how old the thing was, but also that I would more than likely die if anything bad happened on takeoff or landing. 3 modes of ejection, the first being I guess "natural", the second and third involving arm and body movements to attempt a canopy jettison that would have resulted in a broken back had they worked. That thing was a death trap, kudos to you fine gents.
Click to expand...
You sound like one of the 21st century GPS-trained magenta-line pilots talking about flying with only VOR/ADF. :rofl:
 
Approach_controller said:
In my experience in real situations they fly strictly VFR without flight following. I imagine if IMC for a helo is just short of an emergency (which it tends to be) then IMC in an airship would be bad news. They tend not to ask for flight following unless being used as a camera platform I assume due to flying low and possibly below radar at times (other than inside a TFR with waiver). The other reason is they're huge. I've followed one of the Metlife blimps on final before, it was an experience. You can't miss the envelope. As brightly colored and large as they are you'd have to intentionally hit one
Click to expand...

I had no problem flying IFR in an airship. I didn't go looking for it, but if it happened, so be it. Just make sure approach knows what you can and can't do, it's not too bad. Mostly just to get back to the airport. Did do 3 hours of enroute IFR once, and that was probably the hardest 3 hours of flying in my life.


flyingron said:
Actually, while airships are not very FAST, they are extremely manouverable. Most can spin on a dime.
Click to expand...

Sure, they're relatively maneuverable, but they also have very little directional stability, IMO.
 
Ron Levy said:
You sound like one of the 21st century GPS-trained magenta-line pilots talking about flying with only VOR/ADF. :rofl:
Click to expand...

Guilty as charged, though there was once a day when I first started when I knew how to shoot an NDB app. Actually, to be fair, I have never shot a GPS approach in my life, and we aren't certified for them nor do we ever have any of the waypoints that ATC wants to send us to. I'm more of an INS direct kind of dude, though we obviously do have GPS (mainly from a weapons capability standpoint). A G1000 makes our nav suite look like an abacus. TACAN or PAR only for life
 
MAKG1 said:
That would be FL180, and the record is in the stratosphere. You would need oxygen, a parka, food, water, and an adult diaper.
Click to expand...

Actually, wave flights for altitude gain usually are of short enough duration that the "diaper" issue isn't needed. Long duration distance flights below and above FL180 do usually utilize some form of relief system.

High altitude flights require pressure demand O2 systems and if wanting to go above FL450, helmets and pressure suits. This has been tried many times but only really successful once. Mask record was 49K, suits and helmets around 51K. Pretty amazing for a civilian aircraft with no engine!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top