Best way to buy a car these days?

[flyingcheesehead]

Subaru does not budge much on price especially with a new vehicle like the Acsent... they are behind on the demand and already pushing the 2020. I have purchased two Subies in the past five years from two different dealers.. same story they pretty much hold to their price. Now this is in Southern Ca where the Subaru is a popular car, this may be different in other parts of the country...

It seemed to me last time I was shopping that Subaru started at much more reasonable numbers, though. Like I would have had to haggle down 25% from elsewhere just to get to Subaru's list price.

 

[murphey]

I know you asked about Subaru, but I don't have any insight into that particular make. I can, however, tell you the best way for a pilot to buy a new Ford at a no-haggle price that will be about as good as you can get. 5 simple steps.

Step 1: Join EAA
Step 2: Visit the "Ford Partner Recognition Program" page on EAA's website, login and get a code.
Step 3: Go to Ford.com and order a brochure on the car or truck that interests you.
Step 4: Wait for the brochure to come in the mail, it will most likely include a "Private Cash Offer" voucher that will save you another $500 to $1500 depending on the vehicle.
Step 5: Find the car you want online at https://www.fordpartner.com, then go to the dealer and tell them you have "X-Plan". They will stop haggling, pull out the invoice and show you the X-Plan price. From that price, you still get to deduct any rebates, incentives, and the private cash offer. Doc fees are also capped.

That's it. Drive home in your new Ford. On rare occasions, the dealer may be able to offer you a better price than X-Plan. The entire tone of the car buying process changes when you have X-Plan.

Better way.....have Dad’s business card with me that shows he’s fleet mgr for Ford in Arizona. Find local Ford/lincoln dealer, pick out car, find the fleet mgr, hand them Dad’s card. Best deal around.

Personally, I don’t care about the sales rep...I buy based on the shop. I’ll never see the sales floor again, but for the first couple years, all the warranty work will be done at the dealer’s shop.

 

[timwinters]

Surprised no one has mentioned Edmund's. Best place I've found to research car buying. I've used it a lot. Get the average trade-in on your car, if trading. Get "true market value" on the new car, find out what the dealer hold-backs are, etc. Find what the averages are and make sure I get a deal that beats the averages...by a significant amount...or walk away. Always ready to walk away. They need to sell a car far worse than I need to buy one. (Subaru in CO maybe the exception)

 

[Fiveslide]

For used, the best advice I can give is to buy under 100k miles. All the used vehicles I've bought with under 100k miles have lasted me well. The ones I've bought with over 100k miles, even if it's only more in the 130-140k range, have been much bigger problems on the whole. The way vehicles are designed it seems that the first 100k miles it's pretty hard to screw things up and you're still at the very beginning of when things are starting to wear out. Sometimes you get lucky and get a fantastically maintained vehicle (like my E55), but more often that's not the case.

My first Excursion and my wife's Mercedes GL550 were/have been really solid and reliable vehicles. Bought the Excursion with 90k and the GL550 with 94k. In both cases let the first owner absorb something like 70-80% of the purchase price in depreciation and get reasonable reliability.

For about a 10 year stretch before our son was born I don't think I owned anything with less than 200k on the clock. I still have one of them, my old 88 k2500 is sitting at my mother-in-law's house so she has something to haul the garbage off.

I would spend a couple grand on fully depreciated cars or trucks and drive the crap out of them. Drive them for a few years and usually sell them for at least what I paid for them. Never had what I consider a major problem.

I started spending a day in the garage and a few hundred dollars rebuilding the the front end, new ball joints, tie rods, wheel bearings, etc... Then an alignment to be sure they're safe. I got into that habit after my second Isuzu Trooper and the substantial difference it made in the way that car drove.

Now, my truck payment is $250 more a month than our mortgage. Yes, I have a touch of buyer's remorse and I will not buy new again. The truck has a lifetime warranty on the power train, I intend to keep it for a lifetime and maintain the crap out of it.

 

[Clip4]

So your wife wants a car from a company that sells less than 700,000 cars in the US and only has 650 dealers. Do you see a problem here?

 

[RussR]

Recent reports (on clark.com among others) are that while TruCar is still a good way to buy a car, they have recently become a lead-generation site for other car dealers as well. So using them will result in a lot of spam and phone calls. However, there's a pretty easy and straightforward way to deal with this (or any time you need to provide an email or phone number.)

Create a disposable email address at gmail or similar. "Russbuysacar@gmail.com"

Create a free Google Voice phone number using the above email account.

Once you're done buying the car or are no longer interested, never check the two again (or delete them).

 

[Ted]

For about a 10 year stretch before our son was born I don't think I owned anything with less than 200k on the clock. I still have one of them, my old 88 k2500 is sitting at my mother-in-law's house so she has something to haul the garbage off.

I would spend a couple grand on fully depreciated cars or trucks and drive the crap out of them. Drive them for a few years and usually sell them for at least what I paid for them. Never had what I consider a major problem.

I started spending a day in the garage and a few hundred dollars rebuilding the the front end, new ball joints, tie rods, wheel bearings, etc... Then an alignment to be sure they're safe. I got into that habit after my second Isuzu Trooper and the substantial difference it made in the way that car drove.

Now, my truck payment is $250 more a month than our mortgage. Yes, I have a touch of buyer's remorse and I will not buy new again. The truck has a lifetime warranty on the power train, I intend to keep it for a lifetime and maintain the crap out of it.

I've had luck like that on rare occasion, such as with my E55. That thing has been essentially bulletproof and in 40k miles of driving we've done not much to it. However on the whole, I've not had that luck at all. Part of it is also that I tend to not want to live with a lot of "It's old, oh well" kind of things and I want the vehicle to be reliable and not leave me stranded. These days that's less of an issue really since I don't drive as far as I used to, but back before flying I drove all over. Then "While I'm there" things happen. How many of those were unnecessary? Good question, probably a good number. But I think for most people and most vehicles, the buying <100k miles results in a better condition vehicle that will last longer with fewer issues on average than the ~200k mile vehicle.

 

[MauleSkinner]

My FiL is retired from Ford, so we get to buy on the Z plan, which is basically the A plan but for retirees. Confused yet? The A/Z plan is better than the X plan, being that A/Z is true invoice minus the holdbacks. So it's basically the same price the dealer really pays for the car. About as good as you can get and zero haggling.

Same here...

If you want to know what the A/Z plan price is, one of the Ford dealers in the Detroit area posts them on their website. Might give you an idea for price negotiation.

Keep in mind that transportation costs will make the price a little higher elsewhere.

 

[Fiveslide]

I've had luck like that on rare occasion, such as with my E55. That thing has been essentially bulletproof and in 40k miles of driving we've done not much to it. However on the whole, I've not had that luck at all. Part of it is also that I tend to not want to live with a lot of "It's old, oh well" kind of things and I want the vehicle to be reliable and not leave me stranded. These days that's less of an issue really since I don't drive as far as I used to, but back before flying I drove all over. Then "While I'm there" things happen. How many of those were unnecessary? Good question, probably a good number. But I think for most people and most vehicles, the buying <100k miles results in a better condition vehicle that will last longer with fewer issues on average than the ~200k mile vehicle.

I get it. I've had a tremendous amount of luck, the only things that put my cars out of commission, absolutely couldn't drive them before repair, was a thermostat on the k2500 and a spun rod bearing in my 93 Nissan pickup at 235k miles. Really, with the Nissan, I spun that bearing in a mudhole and it ran another 10k miles before it really broke, dropped a $250 pick-n-pull motor in it and it is still running long after I sold it.

I can make old cars look good, too. I just pulled all the interior out of my wife's Honda Element and detailed the crap out of it. It's got over 160k miles and could easily pass for something with a quarter of that.

 

[Ventucky Red]

It seemed to me last time I was shopping that Subaru started at much more reasonable numbers, though. Like I would have had to haggle down 25% from elsewhere just to get to Subaru's list price.

Yes you are getting a pretty nice, solid, and dependable car for the money... Kind of like what Volvo was back in the later 80's early 90's....

 

[ElPaso Pilot]

So your wife wants a car from a company that sells less than 700,000 cars in the US and only has 650 dealers. Do you see a problem here?

Sheesh.

Next thing you know she’ll be looking for a Viking.

 

[Ventucky Red]

Sheesh.

Next thing you know she’ll be looking for a Viking.

Told the wife she can get her Viking as long as I can get mine.... I think something got lost in the translation... and that darn shoulder still hurts

 

[ElPaso Pilot]

So your wife wants a car from a company that sells less than 700,000 cars in the US and only has 650 dealers. Do you see a problem here?

So, what’s the problem here?

Hyundai, Ram, Kia, GMC, Dodge, Volkswagen, Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Mazda, Lexus, Audi, Buick, Tesla, Chrysler, Acura, Cadillac, Infiniti, Mitsubishi, Lincoln, Volvo, Land Rover, Porsche, Mini, Jaguar, Alfa Romeo, Fiat, Genesis, and Smart all sell less in the US than Subaru.

 

[Gary]

Interesting discussion with the local Chevy dealer. He was a good person to deal with (although I didn't buy there), pretty open, knew his product better than anybody else and did really try to learn about the customer. He's been selling cars for 40 years. In his opinion, better than half the independent dealerships will be gone in 5-10 years. They will be replaced by regional sales locations owned and operated by the manufacturers. Basically the Tesla model. According to him, the profit margin on new cars (for the dealer) has gotten so low that the dealership relies on the service and used car departments to provide the overall profit. In the future, each brand will have it's own checklist of what you want, how much it costs, then order on line and they will call you when its ready.

I'd be interested in the opinion of anyone in the business as to whether his forecast has any truth to it. Personally, I think he is right.

 

[Sac Arrow]

I buy a lot of cars for the company. Trucks usually, and sometimes SUV's and sedans. White, stripped down models that are posted as loss leaders in the ads.

The key here, is that stripped down loss leaders are not very different than top of the line models in terms of equipment. At some point extra stuff is useless bling. The last personal vehicle I bought, was a new Sentra at something like $15K, and it had everything. Power everything, AC, oh... no backup camera. Heh, I don't need a backup camera, and don't even use it on vehicles so equipped.

 

[Clip4]

Sheesh.

Next thing you know she’ll be looking for a Viking.

Low demand and low prices, he is set.

 

[tspear]

I'd be interested in the opinion of anyone in the business as to whether his forecast has any truth to it. Personally, I think he is right.

I bought a used full size truck this summer. When talking to the manager of the dealer; he said most car dealerships have about ten years left. They are closing left and right. His dealership sells cars mostly to find customers for the service work.

Tim

 

[SoonerAviator]

I buy a lot of cars for the company. Trucks usually, and sometimes SUV's and sedans. White, stripped down models that are posted as loss leaders in the ads.

The key here, is that stripped down loss leaders are not very different than top of the line models in terms of equipment. At some point extra stuff is useless bling. The last personal vehicle I bought, was a new Sentra at something like $15K, and it had everything. Power everything, AC, oh... no backup camera. Heh, I don't need a backup camera, and don't even use it on vehicles so equipped.

Backup cameras are now required by law in the US. So you won’t get a choice in whether it’s an option, lol. That said, I didn’t care about it much when I bought my truck in ‘08, but it has proven to be fantastic, just takes a while to “trust” it. Being able to back up to my various trailers and be spot-on every time is fantastic, as is backing into a parking space and knowing exactly how much space there is between my hitch and the bumper of the car behind me.

 

[SoonerAviator]

I bought a used full size truck this summer. When talking to the manager of the dealer; he said most car dealerships have about ten years left. They are closing left and right. His dealership sells cars mostly to find customers for the service work.

Tim

I don’t think it’s quite that dramatic (closing left and right), but the days of the small dealership are increasingly numbered. There are still plenty of state regulations that prevent direct to consumer car sales, and many people don’t want to wait on a car to be ordered/built to spec. People often decide they want a new car, go to a dealership or two, and make a purchase from what is on the lot. The biggest shift I’ve seen is really in the optioning/pricing of new vehicles. You have an entry level model (XLT in Ford parlance), and well-optioned trim (Limited), and a trim with basically all options included (Platinum). Many vehicles only have one engine option per trim level, so the auto manufacturers have cut costs by limiting the amount of customization that can be done. New car dealerships have long made their money on the high-end models (eg GM: Corvettes, Yukon Denalis/Escalades, Etc) and service, with used car sales as a bonus. If everyone was buying the low-optioned cars/small suvs, they’d go out of business quick. With the eventual shift to EVs, the service revenue will probably fall off, so that may squeeze the dealership market.

 

[Ted]

I buy a lot of cars for the company. Trucks usually, and sometimes SUV's and sedans. White, stripped down models that are posted as loss leaders in the ads.

The key here, is that stripped down loss leaders are not very different than top of the line models in terms of equipment. At some point extra stuff is useless bling. The last personal vehicle I bought, was a new Sentra at something like $15K, and it had everything. Power everything, AC, oh... no backup camera. Heh, I don't need a backup camera, and don't even use it on vehicles so equipped.

I largely agree on the features. When you look at the "luxury features" that my '82 Jaguar had, they're pretty much the same as a base model Kia, if not less. Power windows, power locks, air conditioning. The Kia would have a better radio, but of course no leather. But it depends on what extras you want. I did want leather in my Ram when I bought it, along with heated and air conditioned seats and the air conditioned steering wheel, which pushed me to the Laramie. That also got m the big touch screen built-in Nav setup, which I wish I had when I was hauling cars around with my first Ram.

The backup camera I never cared for, until I got the one in my Ram. I didn't like it at first, but now that I have the hang of it, I love the thing. Makes it really easy to make sure I'm not backing up over anything or anyone (with small kids that's a concern), and makes it easy to hook up to the trailer perfectly the first time, every time. So I suppose I'm a convert.

Then again I'm even something of a convert of all the emissions equipment on the truck, given the lack of smells it provides when sitting an idling, even though I love the smell of a diesel exhaust. This is more something I think about in traffic (which I spend more time in than I would like to) since I would rather be courteous to others there. Maybe I should find something with an old 2-stroke Detroit that I can drive on the highway to work that'll give me that proper diesel smell.