Best six place twin for short strip?

[petrolero]

PA-34 Seneca can be had for around $100k and can handle short fields. Saw a couple that didn't have run out engines on TAP but didn't look much more closely. Some of these have counterrotating engines.

Cessna 310 for a bit better cruise performance, but these tend to have run-out engines at the $100k point.

 

[Henning]

PA-34 Seneca can be had for around $100k and can handle short fields. Saw a couple that didn't have run out engines on TAP but didn't look much more closely. Some of these have counterrotating engines.

Cessna 310 for a bit better cruise performance, but these tend to have run-out engines at the $100k point.

Mine had 150/380 100hrS/NEW props and a glass panel for $70k

 

[Bill]

Skymaster!



:: ducks ::

I'd rather fly the duck.

 

[petrolero]

Mine had 150/380 100hrS/NEW props and a glass panel for $70k

Which type?

I just took a glance at TAP. If that's the case then it's an even better option per OP specs.

 

[Jeff K]

Here is an aztec going off a 1800' grass strip:

http://youtu.be/jvV7kRGAMiw

Also the bush guys like the Aztec:

http://www.bush-planes.com/PiperAztec.html

And another 4 year old thread here in which Bruce Chin was cautioning using the Seneca on grass strips:

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34885

 

[Kristin]

I am not in love with the Seneca for unpaved strips. Too low slung and its carrying capacity, or lack thereof, means you will not be light often. Also the landing gear is not as rugged as the Aztec, IMO.

If you not need the hauling capacity of an Aztruck, there is the 180hp Geronimo conversion of the Apache. That is a pretty good performer as well, and cheaper to buy and operate.

The Twin Comanche is decent on short and unpaved strips. I have had mine in and out in less than 2000', but not at full gross on a hot day. It will do a 3200' grass strip at gross on a hot day with room to spare. I have done that at Winsted, MN. I have two caveats there. The prop tip clearance is adequate, but I wouldn't take it into a strip that wasn't well maintained. The other is make sure that you have the landing gear blessed by a recognized expert in the Comanche landing gear system. A poorly maintained system can collapse on a rough strip. A well maintained one is no issue.

I don't know about early, read lighter, C-310's, but the R models I used to fly wouldn't be my first choice for getting in and out of a grass strip.

 

[paflyer]

I have had a Navajo in and out of pretty short strips, including some grass strips. I wouldn't hesitate basing a Navajo at that strip. I am not sure that I would go out on a hot day at full gross weight, but then I might never need to do that.

However, for your budget, the Aztec will do the job. The E model is the best of the bunch, IMO. With its carrying capacity, you probably won't be at gross often.

The Commander may work too, but I don't have any experience with them.

Thanks-
I don't think a Navajo can be had for anything close to 100K. Do like airstairs, though...

 

[Henning]

Thanks-
I don't think a Navajo can be had for anything close to 100K. Do like airstairs, though...

You can find one for less, how long you manage to fly it before you hit the $100k mark in purchase and repairs though is another question...

A good few of the T-Bones (Twin Bonanzas)have an air stair, some factory, some conversion. I forget which model started factory installation.

 

[Ted]

My vote is for the Aztec. Great short field airplane. Any of the 400 series Twin Cessnas can do it, but not as easily or as forgiving, and a $100k 400 series will be a real money pit.

The 310 can do it, but the Aztec is, without a doubt, more comfortable for short strips. Navajo can do it as well if you stay light.

Kristin is right on about E vs F and turbo vs non. I flew my non-turbo D (another good option and worth considering) all over the eastern 2/3 of the country, and never found myself wanting for turbos. The only time I wanted turbos was out in Denver or points west of there.

I got about 21 gph combined on my de-iced Aztec for 155 KTAS.

Sometimes I do miss that plane.

 

[paflyer]

Hmmm, Navajo. Cabin class, airstair... have to find one with less than 13000 hours TT.

The Commander is one I never thought of.

BTW, the runway is just short (paved), not rough. But there's turf overrun both ends, maybe another 600 ft total.

 

[paflyer]

I've always just loved how those look. They have various other shortcomings besides the geared engines, for sure, but for looks, they're just sexy.

Such as? I think ingress/egress is only through pilot seat door?

 

[Kristin]

Hmmm, Navajo. Cabin class, airstair... have to find one with less than 13000 hours TT.

The Commander is one I never thought of.

BTW, the runway is just short (paved), not rough. But there's turf overrun both ends, maybe another 600 ft total.

I am not sure what the life limit is on a Navajo. I understand that there are Navajos out there with 20K on the airframe. I would likely wait to get a lower time one than 13,000, but it is more from remarketing considerations rather than from an airworthiness consideration.

 

[Jimmy cooper]

You want to take six people out of 2200 feet in a 50-60 year old airplane? On a continual basis? Why?

 

[paflyer]

You want to take six people out of 2200 feet in a 50-60 year old airplane? On a continual basis? Why?

Why? To fly "Dreamers" and "political refugees" to their new homes in the Democratic People's Republic of Maryland, of course.

 

[Henning]

You realize the entire US is supposed to be a Democratic Republic, by, of, and for the People, right?

Have you bought an Aztec yet?

 

[Jeff K]

I got about 21 gph combined on my de-iced Aztec for 155 KTAS.

To second that data point, that's what I tend to see on my de-iced C model...perhaps a few gph less (I have flap gap seal, the plane is rigged and Metco tips).

http://youtu.be/0ebfi--3ToQ (prior to the metcos/flap gap seals)

 

[Jeff K]

BTW, the runway is just short (paved), not rough. But there's turf overrun both ends, maybe another 600 ft total.

Well that pretty much changes the equation if you are willing to treat the twin as a single with regards to takeoff and use that turf in your accelerated stop distance. 310, baron 58 maybe even the 400 series. Alot of this really depends on your mission also.... most of my flights are less then 300 miles so the that extra 10 or 20mph out of the 310 or Baron 58 meant little to me. My prime interest was safety and the Aztec seemed like one of the safest twins out there (I went by insurance requirements and quotes to make that judgement) as well as the fact I never even get near gross when flying it. And don't forget your yearly reoccuring training as well.

 

[flyingron]

They have a rock guard behind the wheel IIRC.

I don't think rocks are too common. I see a lot of MUD thrown up against the Navion flaps but no indication of rock dings. Still, you'd want some fender or guard to keep that out of the props as well.

 

[flyingron]

We have had B55's and B58's on our 2900' grass strip. We've also had the Pilatypus PC-12 visit a couple of times.