Being based at an airport that doesn’t sell fuel?

[tspear]

Really? Where? Must be tough on float planes....

Well, I ran into it in MD, VA and TN. All three locations it was illegal to use 100LL in anything but a plane. In all three places, when I had an ATV and boat, really did not seem to care if you put 100LL in a small motor like a lawn mower or the ATV. But all three did care if you tried to put 100LL in a boat.
Outside, of being able to allow or disallow landing/takeoff of a body of water, seaplanes are effectively managed by the FAA. They are not controlled by the state EPA.

Tim

 

[ETres]

Maybe it's already been mentioned (I didn't read the entire thread), but try basing at an airport with barely any maintenance. I'd take no fuel over that any day.

 

[dbahn]

Really? Where? Must be tough on float planes....

Really tough in New Jersey. They don't allow them in public waters.

Good thing it's a small state and you can just fly over it. (I found a nice little lake in Delaware, landed there and took fuel from the floats and siphoned it into the wings, then flew over New Jersey to Vermont on my way back from Florida.)

 

[jonnyjetprop]

The FBO at our local airport went out of business and there went the fuel. For me, it wasn’t a safety of flight issues. In was more annoying to have to make a pit stop for fuel prior to continuing. For others in my flying club, it was a bigger concern. The local airport authority has started selling fuel, so everyone is happy.

To me, not having maintenance on the airport is a bigger concern unless there’s someone willing to travel.

 

[Half Fast]

Well, I ran into it in MD, VA and TN. All three locations it was illegal to use 100LL in anything but a plane. In all three places, when I had an ATV and boat, really did not seem to care if you put 100LL in a small motor like a lawn mower or the ATV. But all three did care if you tried to put 100LL in a boat.
Outside, of being able to allow or disallow landing/takeoff of a body of water, seaplanes are effectively managed by the FAA. They are not controlled by the state EPA.

Tim

I guess no one uses airboats in those states.

I've seen the opposite locally. Here in FL many gas stations near boat ramps sell 100LL with a sign that it's not for use in airplanes.

 

[ateamer]

There’s a country market a couple miles from us that sells 100LL to the airboat guys, along with standard auto fuel and diesel. Plus groceries, barbecue, catering for special events, guns and ammo, work boots, fishing tackle, oil and hydraulic fluid, and fruit harvesting equipment and supplies. Not many stores like that left anymore.

 

[tspear]

@Half Fast

That EPA endangerment finding will be interesting to watch than. Boats have even less legal footing to stand on than airplanes.

Tim

 

[Half Fast]

There’s a country market a couple miles from us that sells 100LL to the airboat guys, along with standard auto fuel and diesel. Plus groceries, barbecue, catering for special events, guns and ammo, work boots, fishing tackle, oil and hydraulic fluid, and fruit harvesting equipment and supplies. Not many stores like that left anymore.

Not uncommon near marinas, fish camps, boat ramps, etc., all around Florida.

I remember a general store in Mojave some years back with a sign out front: “We sell whiskey, ammo.” Now there’s everything you need for a great weekend in the desert. My kinda place....

 

[Half Fast]

@Half Fast

That EPA endangerment finding will be interesting to watch than. Boats have even less legal footing to stand on than airplanes.

Tim

I don’t think the EPA is allowed in Florida....

 

[PaulMillner]

Aviation octane is close to MON. So 100LL should be around 105 - 107 AKI with an RON of 110 - 115

It's true that avgas' octane rating is close to (mogas) MON... but, most avgas leaves the refinery with quite a bit more octane than the minimum spec, because refiners are REALLY nervous about offspec avgas. Chevron's debacle in 1994, delivering avgas that was probably around 95 octane instead of the 99.5 minimum called for in the 100LL spec, cost over $100 million... perhaps considerably over that.

The highest octane avgas I've seen in the field was 107, which would be an AKI around 112... that's less likely these days.

legally it cannot be used in a on road vehicle, as road taxes have not been paid.

It's pretty much all about the taxes... there are state and federal rules about introducing leaded gasoline into cars designed for unleaded, but that's almost arcane history at this point. The tax guys address misrouting of fuels all the time (like off-road diesel into on-road uses) and are much more fluent at enforcement. That's one's real exposure to enforcement, I believe.

Paul

 

[Pinecone]

Racing gas does not

Tim

Really??

VP Vintage Leaded | VP Racing

For older vehicles that relied on lead for engine protection, VP Vintage is a leaded fuel with an octane rating of 103 (R+M/2) that contains no ethanol and

vpracingfuels.com

VP Racing T2 Leaded Racing Fuel 5 Gallon Pail 1622 - WMA Motorsports Superstore

Name: T2 Octane (R+M/2): 105.5 This item can be only picked up from our warehouse. Part# VPF1622

wmastore.com

VP Racing C12 Leaded Racing Fuel 5 Gallon Pail - WMA Motorsports Superstore

Name: C12 Octane (R+M/2): 112 This item can be only picked up from our warehouse. Part# VPF1122

wmastore.com

VP Racing C16 118 Octane Leaded Racing Fuel 5-Gallon Pail - WMA Motorsports Superstore

Name: C16 Octane (R+M/2): 118 This item can be only picked up from our warehouse. Part# VPF1162

wmastore.com

Sunoco Standard 110 Leaded Race Fuel (5 Gallon Pail)

Sunoco Standard 110 Leaded Race Fuel is a high-octane, leaded race fuel that is commonly used in all forms of motorsports. It is designed for compression ratios up to about 13:1 in conventional small block V8s and can tolerate higher compression ratios in smaller or more efficient combustion...

hyperfuels.com

Sunoco HCR Plus 114 Octane Racing Fuel (5 Gallons)

Sunoco HCR Plus is a high-performance, leaded racing fuel designed for racing engines with very high compression ratios. It is ideal for sustained high-speed/high-load applications such as asphalt and dirt oval racing. Order now at Hyperfuels.com

hyperfuels.com

Just a few.

 

[tspear]

@Pinecone

Interesting. I was thinking of NASCAR, F1, and even Top Fuel dragsters (which use nitromethane plus methanol based on what I just found).
It never even occurred to me that local tracks/racing would still use leaded fuels. I figured everyone sort of followed the big teams from an example perspective.

Still going to be interesting how the EPA finding plays out.

Tim

 

[Pinecone]

@Pinecone

Interesting. I was thinking of NASCAR, F1, and even Top Fuel dragsters (which use nitromethane plus methanol based on what I just found).
It never even occurred to me that local tracks/racing would still use leaded fuels. I figured everyone sort of followed the big teams from an example perspective.

Still going to be interesting how the EPA finding plays out.

Tim

EPA is only worried about on road. All the racing in a year is probably a day of normal auto fuel useage.

But yes, Indy Car have been alcohol fueled since the 60s. They switched to ethanol to play to concept that they are environmentally friendly.

I don't know when F1 went away from leaded, but they run very exotic things. NASCAR was leaded a lot longer than the others.

But drag racing still has a lot of leaded fuel classes. The "Fuel" in Top Fuel means they can run pretty much anything, which is over 90% nitromethane. They also have Alcohol classes, that run pure methanol.

 

[Half Fast]

EPA is only worried about on road. All the racing in a year is probably a day of normal auto fuel useage.

But yes, Indy Car have been alcohol fueled since the 60s. They switched to ethanol to play to concept that they are environmentally friendly.

I don't know when F1 went away from leaded, but they run very exotic things. NASCAR was leaded a lot longer than the others.

But drag racing still has a lot of leaded fuel classes. The "Fuel" in Top Fuel means they can run pretty much anything, which is over 90% nitromethane. They also have Alcohol classes, that run pure methanol.

Not to mention all the little Saturday night bullrings all over the country. No telling what those folks are using. There’s a lot of grassroots, locally sanctioned racing in the US. NASCAR and IndyCar make up a tiny percentage of racing.

 

[Yooper Grrrl]

I remember a general store in Mojave some years back with a sign out front: “We sell whiskey, ammo.” Now there’s everything you need for a great weekend in the desert. My kinda place....

“Survival kit contents check. In them you’ll find:
– One forty-five caliber automatic
– Two boxes of ammunition
– Four days’ concentrated emergency rations
– One drug issue containing antibiotics, morphine, vitamin pills, pep pills, sleeping pills, tranquilizer pills
– One miniature combination Russian phrase book and Bible
– One hundred dollars in rubles
– One hundred dollars in gold
– Nine packs of chewing gum
– One issue of prophylactics
– Three lipsticks
– Three pair of nylon stockings.

Shoot, a fella’ could have a pretty good weekend in Vegas with all that stuff.”
--Slim Pickens

 

[Pinecone]

Not to mention all the little Saturday night bullrings all over the country. No telling what those folks are using. There’s a lot of grassroots, locally sanctioned racing in the US. NASCAR and IndyCar make up a tiny percentage of racing.

Very true, 1/4 mile dirt tracks are everywhere. But I think a lot of them run alcohol. But I am sure there are gasoline classes that run leaded.

There is a leaded race gas pump at most road race courses I have been to. Some of the older production cars run leaded.

 

[Half Fast]

Very true, 1/4 mile dirt tracks are everywhere. But I think a lot of them run alcohol. But I am sure there are gasoline classes that run leaded.

There is a leaded race gas pump at most road race courses I have been to. Some of the older production cars run leaded.

Interesting. I wouldn't be surprised if sprint cars and midgets were running alcohol, but I imagine all the street stocks and bombers and modifieds and late models are running gasoline. Alcohol can be pretty dangerous since the flames are almost invisible.