Beech down in WA

[SbestCFII]

Or PLB like a SPOT. Plus it provides enhanced SAR with LockMart/FSS, they'll send out SAR immediately if you stop moving.

Downside of PLB/SPOT is their location in the aircraft. Unless safely stored in a better protected area of the airplane, then they can more easily be damaged or destroyed on impact than most ELTs. Plus most PLBs are activated by the user. If you were going down, you could deploy the device before impact I suppose and hope it doesn't get damaged, but in a case like this cumulo-granite happens suddenly.

We should all have 406 ELTs in our planes. You can get an ARTEX for just over half the cost of a PLB, about the cost of an IPAD, and far less than the cost of our IPAD associated accessories (ILevil, GDL39, Stratus, etc.). I can tell you from CAP that flying grids looking for 121.5 ELT signals is far less efficient and more likely to result in a recovery than a rescue.

 

[SbestCFII]

Presumed dead is not the same as pronounced dead. A little quick on the trigger to make that statement.

Probably a more accurate statement would be "unlikely to be alive." However, given age, injuries, environment, lack of water, death is all but assured in this case. Of course, nobody is going to slack off looking.

 

[SbestCFII]

Still, you are not officially dead until you are pronounced dead by a doctor or other official that is allowed to call death.

That's right. You're never officially dead until someone with proper regulated authority pronounces you dead. No matter how long you've actually been dead.

 

[narchee]

I know the general reaction of pilots is to not judge, but a spade needs to be called a spade if it could prevent another pilot from committing these same errors. It's certainly a wake up call to me. I've been tempted many times to dart through a cloud while VFR, as I'm sure we all have.

Yes it happens. There are plenty of VFR pilots who "stretch" the rules. I once flew as a passenger with someone in Alaska who was in no way VFR at times and when I questioned it he said "well that's the way we fly here otherwise we'd never get anywhere". I've also heard of other pilots with a five second rule. "As long as I'm through the cloud within five seconds I'm okay". Drives me nuts but it is the reality out there for some. Until it catches up to you and you die.

 

[James331]

Still, you are not officially dead until you are pronounced dead by a doctor or other official that is allowed to call death.

You friggin kidding me right?

Yeah because it's paperwork that determines life and death

That's right. You're never officially dead until someone with proper regulated authority pronounces you dead. No matter how long you've actually been dead.

That




I noticed Leland has been a private pilot since 2011, but has no instrument rating, that's a heck of a route and a heck of a airplane to be flying without being able to pull IFR legally, or even have the training to do it illegally.

 

[retailguy]

Yep your wright 16 year old girl says your dead your dead get the shovel out.

Still, you are not officially dead until you are pronounced dead by a doctor or other official that is allowed to call death.

Oh for Pete's sake.

Yes, you're both correct, but who the he!! cares?

Anytime I hear variations of "but, what about...", my response is "Butt, the mating call of ___holes".

 

[retailguy]

I was shooting practice approaches today in the cirrus. I called for a missed about 6 miles out on a localizer approach because something wasn't right and it wasn't immediately apparent to me what it was.

ATC vectored me back to start over and I went one by one through the steps and realized that I set the HSI wrong (30 degrees off). My safety pilot said "why didn't you just hang with it a while longer?" My response was - I did what I would have done if I was single pilot in actual IFR. To me, that's why I practice, besides it being a legal requirement.

I'm sure some of you think I'm being silly, but what happened here bothers me more than most of what "could" happen to me. I know I can be "that guy" if I don't think clearly and let the mistakes quickly creep in and mount.

 

[James331]

I was shooting practice approaches today in the cirrus. I called for a missed about 6 miles out on a localizer approach because something wasn't right and it wasn't immediately apparent to me what it was.

ATC vectored me back to start over and I went one by one through the steps and realized that I set the HSI wrong (30 degrees off). My safety pilot said "why didn't you just hang with it a while longer?" My response was - I did what I would have done if I was single pilot in actual IFR. To me, that's why I practice, besides it being a legal requirement.

I'm sure some of you think I'm being silly, but what happened here bothers me more than most of what "could" happen to me. I know I can be "that guy" if I don't think clearly and let the mistakes quickly creep in and mount.

I take it your "safety" pilot is not a IFR pilot.

 

[retailguy]

I take it your "safety" pilot is not a IFR pilot.

Not true. However, I don't know if he was just quizzing me or he would have continued. We didn't talk further about it. I just reshot the approach and landed.

 

[SoonerAviator]

. . . I noticed Leland has been a private pilot since 2011, but has no instrument rating, that's a heck of a route and a heck of a airplane to be flying without being able to pull IFR legally, or even have the training to do it illegally.

Heck of an airplane . . . since when was an IR needed to fly a v-tail?

 

[old cfi]

Not sure who found the pilot was issued his license in 2011 but if that info came from the FAA pilot database he could have had a license long before that.

My "original" ATP was issued in 1987 but when I applied this year for a new, plastic one with a new address it states it was issued this year, 2015. No mention of original issue date. Just saying . . .

 

[James331]

Not true. However, I don't know if he was just quizzing me or he would have continued. We didn't talk further about it. I just reshot the approach and landed.

I hope he was quizzing you, scary if he wasn't.

Heck of an airplane . . . since when was an IR needed to fly a v-tail?

It's not NEEDED, lots of things are not needed, still a good idea, with a plane that is the cross country machine the Bo is, with the seating capacity and the missions folks use the Bo for, it's really a silly plane to not have he ability to handle a little IFR in.

 

[Xscaliber]

Lustick said he had spoken with Veatch's father, who said his daughter told him the plane crashed and caught fire after flying into a bank of clouds. She remained at the crash site for a day before deciding to hike down, eventually finding a trail and following it to the trailhead on Highway 20.

Smart girl.

This story has made the tabloids over here in the UK, Quoted as said by the father of the surviving young girl , "it was a small single engine aircraft, I've been up in one of those, they are not safe" ......

 

[frcabot]

This story has made the tabloids over here in the UK, Quoted as said by the father of the surviving young girl , "it was a small single engine aircraft, I've been up in one of those, they are not safe" ......

Statistically they're not, relative to other forms of transportation. Especially with dumb pilots.

 

[James331]

This story has made the tabloids over here in the UK, Quoted as said by the father of the surviving young girl , "it was a small single engine aircraft, I've been up in one of those, they are not safe" ......

Says the overweight man

Ain't going to be the plane that kills him, it's going to be the crap he eats.

"Safety" lol

 

[danhagan]

Yes it happens. There are plenty of VFR pilots who "stretch" the rules. I once flew as a passenger with someone in Alaska who was in no way VFR at times and when I questioned it he said "well that's the way we fly here otherwise we'd never get anywhere". I've also heard of other pilots with a five second rule. "As long as I'm through the cloud within five seconds I'm okay". Drives me nuts but it is the reality out there for some. Until it catches up to you and you die.

Hmm, new interpretation ... I thought it was only for food you were REALLY sorry you dropped and still want to eat IR pilots need to do the same thing breaking out into VMC (I'm staying head down until I count to 5 because I might not like what I see)

 

[TangoWhiskey]

That's right. You're never officially dead until someone with proper regulated authority pronounces you dead. No matter how long you've actually been dead.

So is the date of death on the death certificate the date the doctor finally sees their remains and "declares them dead", or the date the airplane hit the mountain four days prior?

 

[acrophile]

I hope he was quizzing you, scary if he wasn't

Why? If I'm flying a practice approach in VMC with a safety pilot and something happens that would require a missed approach in real life, I make a note that I would go missed if actually IFR, but I continue to see if I can salvage the practice approach.

Aside from the obvious advantage of not wasting time and money on re-starting the approach, this policy also lets me practice dealing with a more-challenging situation (salvaging a failed approach) than I would have occasion to wrestle with in real life. And the extra challenge might even be directly relevant if ever I'm flying an approach under emergency circumstances that make a missed approach more dangerous than continuing (though I hope I'm never faced with such a choice).

 

[Tom-D]

The wreckage was found 1 mile north of Rainy Pass.

Okanogan-Wenatchee National Forest
Wenatchee, WA
48.501134, -120.704784

 

[RotorDude]

Not sure if this link has already been posted here, but an interesting read.

 

[James331]

Why? If I'm flying a practice approach in VMC with a safety pilot and something happens that would require a missed approach in real life, I make a note that I would go missed if actually IFR, but I continue to see if I can salvage the practice approach.

Aside from the obvious advantage of not wasting time and money on re-starting the approach, this policy also lets me practice dealing with a more-challenging situation (salvaging a failed approach) than I would have occasion to wrestle with in real life. And the extra challenge might even be directly relevant if ever I'm flying an approach under emergency circumstances that make a missed approach more dangerous than continuing (though I hope I'm never faced with such a choice).

Practice the way you want to preform on LIFR, accept nothing less, less is failure, failure is death.

 

[ejensen]

Ice would be one. BTDT but without issues. Low fuel, engine problems......

Why? If I'm flying a practice approach in VMC with a safety pilot and something happens that would require a missed approach in real life, I make a note that I would go missed if actually IFR, but I continue to see if I can salvage the practice approach.

Aside from the obvious advantage of not wasting time and money on re-starting the approach, this policy also lets me practice dealing with a more-challenging situation (salvaging a failed approach) than I would have occasion to wrestle with in real life. And the extra challenge might even be directly relevant if ever I'm flying an approach under emergency circumstances that make a missed approach more dangerous than continuing (though I hope I'm never faced with such a choice).

 

[N801BH]

The wreckage was found 1 mile north of Rainy Pass.

Okanogan-Wenatchee National Forest
Wenatchee, WA
48.501134, -120.704784

When I fly S&R stuff, my first grid is center of passes and working out from there.....

It is amazing that most are found in the corridor........


We call it " close, but no Cigar"

 

[Tom-D]

Not sure if this link has already been posted here, but an interesting read.

Do not believe that guy in the forest. the area she walked out of is much thicker than what he showed there. that was relatively flat. the terrane she walkout of was near vertical.

Pictures of the area, taken from Hwy 20, Rainy pass is about 10 miles west.

He damn near made it, had he been high to clear that ridge, it was all down hill from there to the sea.

 

[peerlesscowboy]

I was shooting practice approaches today in the cirrus. I called for a missed about 6 miles out on a localizer approach because something wasn't right and it wasn't immediately apparent to me what it was.

ATC vectored me back to start over and I went one by one through the steps and realized that I set the HSI wrong (30 degrees off). My safety pilot said "why didn't you just hang with it a while longer?" My response was - I did what I would have done if I was single pilot in actual IFR. To me, that's why I practice, besides it being a legal requirement.

I'm sure some of you think I'm being silly, but what happened here bothers me more than most of what "could" happen to me. I know I can be "that guy" if I don't think clearly and let the mistakes quickly creep in and mount.

I'm with you. My theory; if something don't seem right---it prob'ly ain't.

 

[SkyDog58]

Not sure who found the pilot was issued his license in 2011 but if that info came from the FAA pilot database he could have had a license long before that.

My "original" ATP was issued in 1987 but when I applied this year for a new, plastic one with a new address it states it was issued this year, 2015. No mention of original issue date. Just saying . . .

Yeah, I hate that. I got my A&P in 1980 but my plastic card says 2009.

 

[Zeldman]

Do not believe that guy in the forest. the area she walked out of is much thicker than what he showed there. that was relatively flat. the terrane she walkout of was near vertical.

Pictures of the area, taken from Hwy 20, Rainy pass is about 10 miles west.

He damn near made it, had he been high to clear that ridge, it was all down hill from there to the sea.

Damn... so close.

Outside Bettles Alaska, a friend of mine was 90 below a mountain top according to the first point of impact. The mountain he hit was described as rapidly rising to vertical. The plane actually fell 40 to 50 feet backwards from impact site. A few parts of the plane such as the roof and some cargo made it over the top.

It was the last of a group of mountains after coming out of Anatuvik Pass. If he had delayed his descent another minute he would have cleared it.

His head, part of his spine and about 40 pounds of meat were recovered.

 

[Tom-D]

I'm with you. My theory; if something don't seem right---it prob'ly ain't.

My Dad would tell me, eye ball it, if it looks right, it probably is, if it ain't, no one will notice.

 

[frcabot]

The wreckage was found 1 mile north of Rainy Pass.

Okanogan-Wenatchee National Forest
Wenatchee, WA
48.501134, -120.704784

Pretty far from Omak. So my previous post was correct.

 

[acrophile]

Practice the way you want to preform on LIFR, accept nothing less, less is failure, failure is death.

As I said, I would explicitly note that in IFR I'd go missed at that point. So I still get the benefit of practicing that decision as if in IFR.

After that, though, I benefit more from continuing the practice approach than from aborting it.

 

[MAKG1]

He damn near made it, had he been high to clear that ridge, it was all down hill from there to the sea.

That's how it always works.

Most terrain-induced wrecks are found within 200 feet of the top.

 

[MAKG1]

When I fly S&R stuff, my first grid is center of passes and working out from there.....

It is amazing that most are found in the corridor........


We call it " close, but no Cigar"

Most of us start with a route search, which would include passes if relevant.

Grids are not a good idea around high terrain. If a route search won't do it, you follow the terrain contours, top to bottom. If there is a pass well below mountain peaks, that will take you through it several times.

If the pilot was off route due to a wrong turn up a box canyon, you'll need a lot of helpers and a lot of time.

 

[MAKG1]

The wreckage was found 1 mile north of Rainy Pass.

Okanogan-Wenatchee National Forest
Wenatchee, WA
48.501134, -120.704784

Those coordinates are right next to Hwy 20.

That seems unlikely with a two-day walkout.

 

[Fearless Tower]

Those coordinates are right next to Hwy 20.



That seems unlikely with a two-day walkout.

What seems unlikely?

Keep in mind, she didn't actually walk for two full days. Several reports said she stayed near the wreckage the first night (Saturday) and then showed up on Monday. So maybe a little over 1 day of hiking without having any clue where she was.

Not trying to diminish her accomplishment, just saying the proximity of the crash to the highway doesn't seem that strange, unless there is another angle I'm missing?

 

[frcabot]

Those coordinates are right next to Hwy 20.

That seems unlikely with a two-day walkout.

Wasn't really two days though. She stayed with the plane for the first day and only spent part of the second day walking.

 

[Tom-D]

Those coordinates are right next to Hwy 20.

That seems unlikely with a two-day walkout.

The crash site is a mile north. on the face of the mountain.

I'd like to see you do it in less. This was a miracle that she walked out at all.

The easiest portion of the walk was "easy trail" and that name is a misnomer. You better be a really good hiker to try the trail its self.

 

[Tom-D]

What seems unlikely?

Keep in mind, she didn't actually walk for two full days. Several reports said she stayed near the wreckage the first night (Saturday) and then showed up on Monday. So maybe a little over 1 day of hiking without having any clue where she was.

Not trying to diminish her accomplishment, just saying the proximity of the crash to the highway doesn't seem that strange, unless there is another angle I'm missing?

The position I gave came from Google maps, they are not exact. that is the edge of the highway. look 1 mile north.

 

[Tom-D]

Not trying to diminish her accomplishment

Not until you've walked a mile in her shoes. just saying.

 

[MAKG1]

The crash site is a mile north. on the face of the mountain.

I'd like to see you do it in less. This was a miracle that she walked out at all.

The easiest portion of the walk was "easy trail" and that name is a misnomer. You better be a really good hiker to try the trail its self.

Why did you post coordinates where the crash site isn't?

With a precision of ~4 inches, no less.

 

[Tom-D]

Why did you post coordinates where the crash site isn't?

With a precision of ~4 inches, no less.

You got what google came up with.