Becoming legal again

L

legaleagle

Guest
I have been flying for 20 years. My last flight review was 2012. Since that expired in 2014, I continued to fly. I have no excuses, it just lapsed, and though I thought about scheduling it, life was busy and a month became 6 months, and now 6 years later I want to get legal again. I am scheduled for a flight review next week and wonder how the instructor is going to handle it. Is this something he is going to dwell on or report to the FAA?
 
legaleagle said:
I have been flying for 20 years. My last flight review was 2012. Since that expired in 2014, I continued to fly. I have no excuses, it just lapsed, and though I thought about scheduling it, life was busy and a month became 6 months, and now 6 years later I want to get legal again. I am scheduled for a flight review next week and wonder how the instructor is going to handle it. Is this something he is going to dwell on or report to the FAA?
Click to expand...
why would it even be relevant. I've never had an instructor ask me when my last review was. You want a review. He's giving you a review.
 
2 thoughts well maybe 3
1. Why would this even come up in the discussion?
2. You need more friends that are CFI's.
3 . Not really their job to police this.

Wait #4 logs books got lost in tragic boating accident. :)
 
Get the flight review and if your still not comfortable ,schedule some extra time with an instructor.
 
As @DFH65 said, it’s not the instructor’s job to police this. If he tries to do so, use a different instructor.

Beyond that, don’t volunteer that information. But I wouldn’t recommend lying about it if he asks.
 
I can’t think of any reason this would get brought up during a flight review. Remember, the instructors job is to get you up to speed on knowledge and skill set, not audit your logbook. Now, the fact that you chose to fly with an expired flight review (for six years nonetheless) might weigh on his opinions of your decision making process, if it was discussed.

Get legal, fly often and stay proficient!

Good luck!
 
legaleagle said:
I have been flying for 20 years. My last flight review was 2012. Since that expired in 2014, I continued to fly. I have no excuses, it just lapsed, and though I thought about scheduling it, life was busy and a month became 6 months, and now 6 years later I want to get legal again. I am scheduled for a flight review next week and wonder how the instructor is going to handle it. Is this something he is going to dwell on or report to the FAA?
Click to expand...

Instead of asking for a flight review, I would recommend asking for a block of dual time with an instructor. That way the instructor would know to come prepared rather than treating it as a routine flight review.
When I got back into flying after nearly 10 years, I told my instructor that I might need as much as 20 hours or as little as 2 hours. It ended up taking about 4 hours.

Unless you do something reckless or criminal, the instructor does not communicate with the FAA regarding flight reviews.
 
There is a relevant reason for the CFI to know when your last FR was, things have changed in the last 8 years and the CFI should highlight and make you aware of those changes...
 
OP: Been a while since my last BFR, you up for it?

CFI: How long has it been?

OP: (says it during a cough) Errrreightyearserrrrr.

CFI: Ok

Don't get ****ed if it takes longer than normal.
 
sarangan said:
Instead of asking for a flight review, I would recommend asking for a block of dual time with an instructor. That way the instructor would know to come prepared rather than treating it as a routine flight review.
When I got back into flying after nearly 10 years, I told my instructor that I might need as much as 20 hours or as little as 2 hours. It ended up taking about 4 hours.

Unless you do something reckless or criminal, the instructor does not communicate with the FAA regarding flight reviews.
Click to expand...

PaulS said:
OP: Been a while since my last BFR, you up for it?

CFI: How long has it been?

OP: (says it during a cough) Errrreightyearserrrrr.

CFI: Ok

Don't get ****ed if it takes longer than normal.
Click to expand...

Why would you expect it to take longer (other than maybe a bit longer ground time to cover relevant changes)?? He's been flying the whole time, he's not in a rusty pilot situation.
 
Says me fess up to it. Being overdue 6 years could change how the CFI wants to approach it. I doubt it will be any kind of deal.
 
I would ask, I also would take a look at their log anyways, I’m going to have to see the log one way or another after the flight and ground if you want to log it.

CFI is like a honey badger, CFI doesn’t care, he’s just going to get you up to spec, if that is the minimum 1hr ground and 1hr air that’s that, if it takes a little more time, he’s paid by the hour so he won’t be mad or anything.

No big deal, you will probably catch right back up like riding a bike, relax, have a open mind and have fun.
 
My thinking, you get a warning from the CFI, probably in the form of a review of the FARs related to flight reviews.

I'd pull in FAA Order 2150.3C and review the potential penalties. My view - operation without a flight review is a Severity 1 / Low offense and would normally warrant 20-60 days revocation. However, given that this was intentional and multiple occurrences, it probably rises to the level of moderate and 60-120 days revocation. Per offense? I don't know.

Just to make sure - you DID keep your medical current, right?
 
bflynn said:
My thinking, you get a warning from the CFI, probably in the form of a review of the FARs related to flight reviews.

I'd pull in FAA Order 2150.3C and review the potential penalties. My view - operation without a flight review is a Severity 1 / Low offense and would normally warrant 20-60 days revocation. However, given that this was intentional and multiple occurrences, it probably rises to the level of moderate and 60-120 days revocation. Per offense? I don't know.

Just to make sure - you DID keep your medical current, right?
Click to expand...


Lol, how to become a blacklisted CFI 101
 
There's gotta be at least three more pages of arguments over this and no consensus will emerge cause that's how we roll on POA. ;)

My vote is to go and take a flight review. Your CFI will bring you up to speed and look in your log books. If you need additional training he will be glad to take your funds to get you current. My CFI asked if I was current for my last review but I don't remember being asked at any other time. So far I've not run into the situation that you face ...
 
MauleSkinner said:
Blacklisted for reviewing regs, or blacklisted for pointing out potential penalties as a means of educating/motivating the pilot?
Click to expand...

Educate the pilot, that is good and what your job is.

But to give them a “warning” that’s not the job, FAA 2150.3C is not covered in a BFR review. Belittling a client not good business practice

CFI is paid to get the pilot up to speed then sign off a complete BFR once they demonstrate required skills and knowledge, that is the job, passing judgment is not.
 
DanStrange said:
Educate the pilot, that is good and what your job is.

But to give them a “warning” that’s not the job, FAA 2150.3C is not covered in a BFR review. Belittling a client not good business practice

CFI is paid to get the pilot up to speed then sign off a complete BFR once they demonstrate required skills and knowledge, that is the job, passing judgment is not.
Click to expand...
The need for a flight review isn’t covered in the review, either.

The ground training requirements for a flight review are not limiting, they’re a minimum (“must include”). The pilot, by his own admission, knowingly violated regulations. It seems that advising the pilot of the penalties for intentional violation would be useful in motivating the pilot to not do so again. It’s not passing judgment, it’s educating.

it is also the responsibility of an instructor to address observed hazardous attitudes.
 
Last edited:
I'm in the, "go, get your flight review, and sin no more" camp. As a CFI, I see no reason to report anything in the stated scenario...

...well, except maybe reporting a "legaleagle" who is committing malpractice by missing deadlines :D
 
MauleSkinner said:
The need for a flight review isn’t covered in the review, either.

The ground training requirements for a flight review are not limiting, they’re a minimum (“must include”). The pilot, by his own admission, knowingly violated regulations. It seems that advising the pilot of the penalties for intentional violation would be useful in motivating the pilot to not do so again. It’s not passing judgment, it’s educating.

it is also the responsibility of an instructor to address observed hazardous attitudes.
Click to expand...

It’s covered under part 61 regulations.
Covered under the “how long is your ___ good for” questions.




The starter of topic, you don’t legally need to keep old logs beyond proving currency, if your total times were forwarded to shiny new logbook from dirty tattered logbook, there would be no legal need to keep old log book.


Not mine, same as what my school would always cover

https://fly8ma.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Flight-Review-Checklist.pdf
 
MauleSkinner said:
which are not required to be covered by 61.56 any more than the penalties for violation.
Click to expand...

We disagree.

It is very common for flight reviews, IPC, medical, ELT, annual, to be grouped together in flight reviews.

I don’t know of many who would know where to find the FAA penalty sheet.

Letting students know the time limits is much more important than what the FAA might do if they are caught. Most violations I have heard of are just “oops” ones, not intentional. Maybe I am wearing rose glasses.
 
DanStrange said:
Educate the pilot, that is good and what your job is.

But to give them a “warning” that’s not the job, FAA 2150.3C is not covered in a BFR review. Belittling a client not good business practice

CFI is paid to get the pilot up to speed then sign off a complete BFR once they demonstrate required skills and knowledge, that is the job, passing judgment is not.
Click to expand...

Teaching them what the consequences could have been - is that warning them or educating them? I don't see it as a warning other than "don't screw this up again because they won't be kind".
 
Geez....bone up on the regs and read the FAR/AIM. Schedule the review and get it done. No biggie. You’ll be done in two or less sessions.
 
There's a ten year hole in my logbook. I took a new job and never got around to getting checked out in the new location. I finally checked out a few local flight schools, picked one, and told them I'd not flown in a while. The instructor told me to go reread my private study manual (still had) and the AIM and then we'd meet. We did about a bit over an hour on the ground and two sessions in the air before she felt she could sign me off.
 
DanStrange said:
We disagree.
Click to expand...
yup. We disagree.

DanStrange said:
It is very common for flight reviews, IPC, medical, ELT, annual, to be grouped together in flight reviews.
Click to expand...
Herd mentality is not a good tool for establishing policy.
DanStrange said:
I don’t know of many who would know where to find the FAA penalty sheet.
Click to expand...
Ignorance (even widespread ignorance)is not a good tool for establishing policy.

DanStrange said:
Letting students know the time limits is much more important than what the FAA might do if they are caught. Most violations I have heard of are just “oops” ones, not intentional. Maybe I am wearing rose glasses.
Click to expand...
When someone admits to intentional violations, as is the topic of this thread, it is NOT an “oops”, and shouldn’t be treated as such.
 
MauleSkinner said:
yup. We disagree.


Herd mentality is not a good tool for establishing policy.
Ignorance (even widespread ignorance)is not a good tool for establishing policy.
Click to expand...

Disagree, when something is known as area that people should know about, it is a good thing to make common practice in teaching.
The pilot and plane need to be safe and legal
Knowing when your ELT needs to be checked should be on the same BFR question line as IPC and BFR and medical, this makes logic sense to me, I will keep the practice of teaching it.

MauleSkinner said:
When someone admits to intentional violations, as is the topic of this thread, it is NOT an “oops”, and shouldn’t be treated as such.
Click to expand...

I don’t see this the same, he screwed up, if he was really malicious and did not care, he would not care about a BFR now.
 
DanStrange said:
Disagree, when something is known as area that people should know about, it is a good thing to make common practice in teaching.
The pilot and plane need to be safe and legal
Knowing when your ELT needs to be checked should be on the same BFR question line as IPC and BFR and medical, this makes logic sense to me, I will keep the practice of teaching it.
Click to expand...
teach what you want, but don’t demand that everyone teach exactly the same things you do.



I don’t see this the same, he screwed up, if he was really malicious and did not care, he would not care about a BFR now.
Click to expand...
Malicious and intentional are also two different things.
 
legaleagle said:
I have been flying for 20 years. My last flight review was 2012. Since that expired in 2014, I continued to fly. I have no excuses, it just lapsed, and though I thought about scheduling it, life was busy and a month became 6 months, and now 6 years later I want to get legal again. I am scheduled for a flight review next week and wonder how the instructor is going to handle it. Is this something he is going to dwell on or report to the FAA?
Click to expand...

I missed the part about continuing to fly without a flight review. I still don't think the CFI would report it. Its not his job to police these things.
 
MauleSkinner said:
You indicated that anyone who teaches something you don’t should be blacklisted.
Click to expand...

I don’t think that’s what I said

Belittling customers is a way to find yourself self blacklisted, people who try to get into compliance don’t like paying $50 hour to be belittled. Everyone has their own teaching style though, what works for me might be different for you :)
 
DanStrange said:
I don’t think that’s what I said

Belittling customers is a way to find yourself self blacklisted, people who try to get into compliance don’t like paying $50 hour to be belittled. Everyone has their own teaching style though, what works for me might be different for you :)
Click to expand...
Well, I guess the herd considers education belittling.
 
sarangan said:
I missed the part about continuing to fly without a flight review. I still don't think the CFI would report it. Its not his job to police these things.
Click to expand...
Wearing my CFI hat, I might report a pilot I thought would continue to fly illegally if I felt it were a safety issue, but not one who admits to having done so in the past while in the process of fixing it.

And yes, that flight review would cover privileges and limitations, but no, I wouldn't pull out the penalty sheet or give my hour-long presentation on the enforcement process (unless of course, the pilot asked, "what could've happened?" - that could be a very short or a verrry long discussion).
 
Last edited:
midlifeflyer said:
but no, I wouldn't pull out the penalty sheet or give my hour-long presentation on the enforcement process
Click to expand...
I wouldn’t, either...but the difference is you could find the penalty sheet, so you should probably be blacklisted just on principle. :rolleyes:
 
Old Thread: Hello . There have been no replies in this thread for 365 days.
Content in this thread may no longer be relevant.
Perhaps it would be better to start a new thread instead.
Back
Top