Bay Tour Flight Tomorrow Morning

kimberlyanne546

kimberlyanne546

Final Approach
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Kimberly
It is probably a little bit late to post this, but I am hiring a CFI at 8am (first time meeting) for one hour to review my TAC before I go.

Weather dependent, the plan is to depart tomorrow morning, fly down directly to the Golden Gate Bridge, fly over downtown (don't have to but I like that the most), fly over Alcatraz / sailboats, then go back and land. Hoping the entire thing will cost me less than 2 hours Hobbs Time. If the weather is a factor (Golden Gate Bridge is foggy), I don't really have a "Plan B" except to sit around the airport and wait for the clouds to clear. I have the plane reserved for 4 hours so this is a good plan. I will have a "must leave by" time and if that time comes I'll simply go somewhere else or perhaps just explore the area - never done that before.

Another idea is to fly above / around the area and still do the GGB flight regardless of fog and marine layers since they tend to be down low. As crazy as it sounds, there are often these sort of foggy clouds that hug the two "golden" (red) arches and don't actually extend outwards over the other bridges.

So:

Assuming I get my "dream flight" without clouds in the way to spoil my day, does anyone have any inputs to share?

A pilot at STS told me to simply fly 3500 the whole time, getting Bravo clearance, along with flight following.

Another idea (though not recommended) is to fly the whole thing VFR without talking to anyone. This can be tricky without a GPS and would be a lot lower than 3500.

Another idea is to get flight following but stay clear of the Charlie and the Bravo.

Thanks in advance for your suggestions. I do NOT have a GPS and only own a SF TAC and a SF Sectional.


Kimberly
 
The fact you are doing it so early, you will be dealing with a marine layer for sure. When I do bay tours I ask if they want the short of the long version. The school I fly out of part time is at LVK. The short version I can make about 1.0. I start by going up highway 680, cutting over highway 24 and making a B line to the GGB from there, its almost direct the bridge but not quite. I go out at 4500 and start descending before the Oakland hills. I will eventually go down to 2000-1500, do circles over Alcatraz, show them Pier 39, then a couple laps around the GGB, then leave the way I came. I get flight following but you don't need a class B transition.

The long, I depart LVK and depart strait out to the west. This takes you almost direct HWD, I go out at 2500(if I can remember) then over the hill I go down to 2000-1500. I stay below the bravo but get flight following and go through OAK's class C. I fly north up to the bay bridge, hit Alcatraz, GGB, Pier 39, then I fly to Treasure Island and ask for a class B transition to fly south over SF. Over Pac Bell Park, SFO, down south passed Moffett Field, then back to LVK. Thats anywhere from 1.4-1.8

Thats just to give you an idea of the flight times. I would recommend if you can swing it, to do it later in the day that marine layer has been killer on all my morning flights out of OAK all week.
 
Inverted said:
The fact you are doing it so early, you will be dealing with a marine layer for sure. When I do bay tours I ask if they want the short of the long version. The school I fly out of part time is at LVK. The short version I can make about 1.0. I start by going up highway 680, cutting over highway 24 and making a B line to the GGB from there, its almost direct the bridge but not quite. I go out at 4500 and start descending before the Oakland hills. I will eventually go down to 2000-1500, do circles over Alcatraz, show them Pier 39, then a couple laps around the GGB, then leave the way I came. I get flight following but you don't need a class B transition.

The long, I depart LVK and depart strait out to the west. This takes you almost direct HWD, I go out at 2500(if I can remember) then over the hill I go down to 2000-1500. I stay below the bravo but get flight following and go through OAK's class C. I fly north up to the bay bridge, hit Alcatraz, GGB, Pier 39, then I fly to Treasure Island and ask for a class B transition to fly south over SF. Over Pac Bell Park, SFO, down south passed Moffett Field, then back to LVK. Thats anywhere from 1.4-1.8

Thats just to give you an idea of the flight times. I would recommend if you can swing it, to do it later in the day that marine layer has been killer on all my morning flights out of OAK all week.
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So early? I have the plane from 10:30am - 2:30pm.
 
It seems similar to a NYC sightseeing flight... it's more fun to go around/under the controlled airspaces (and pretty easy with a chart), but you have to be prepared to take a swim should something go wrong. :D

You're wise to avoid going when there's fog on the bay... it may be legal to fly over fog, with no holes within gliding distance, but it's not a very good idea, especially in an urban area.

If you decide to stay high, look at it this way: you can see more of the city (and environs) from higher up. Either way, it will be a cool flight, I think.
 
When I read 8am I thought you would be departing shortly after. I couldn't tell you when its been clearing up as I depart OAK around 8 every morning and the last few days has been vis 7 700 ovc.

You might be ok. Where are you departing from?
 
Inverted said:
The fact you are doing it so early, you will be dealing with a marine layer for sure. When I do bay tours I ask if they want the short of the long version. The school I fly out of part time is at LVK. The short version I can make about 1.0. I start by going up highway 680, cutting over highway 24 and making a B line to the GGB from there, its almost direct the bridge but not quite. I go out at 4500 and start descending before the Oakland hills. I will eventually go down to 2000-1500, do circles over Alcatraz, show them Pier 39, then a couple laps around the GGB, then leave the way I came. I get flight following but you don't need a class B transition.

The long, I depart LVK and depart strait out to the west. This takes you almost direct HWD, I go out at 2500(if I can remember) then over the hill I go down to 2000-1500. I stay below the bravo but get flight following and go through OAK's class C. I fly north up to the bay bridge, hit Alcatraz, GGB, Pier 39, then I fly to Treasure Island and ask for a class B transition to fly south over SF. Over Pac Bell Park, SFO, down south passed Moffett Field, then back to LVK. Thats anywhere from 1.4-1.8

Thats just to give you an idea of the flight times. I would recommend if you can swing it, to do it later in the day that marine layer has been killer on all my morning flights out of OAK all week.
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So Pac Bell Park, that sounds awesome too. My only concern it is has been a while since I got flight following. Hoping I will be able to keep up with what they are saying and of course the distraction of a passenger. I will brief the passenger too that if ATC speaks we need to listen and put our own conversation on hold....

Can't wait for the day I no longer worry about radios. They really aren't that big of a deal.
 
Inverted said:
When I read 8am I thought you would be departing shortly after. I couldn't tell you when its been clearing up as I depart OAK around 8 every morning and the last few days has been vis 7 700 ovc.

You might be ok. Where are you departing from?
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O69 (Petaluma). The "plan B" includes wasting time eating bacon and other breakfast items at the two niner diner overlooking the runway while those pesky clouds take their time to clear.

I just found a neat website with a Golden Gate Bridge webcam that takes pictures every few minutes. I realize it is not a "weather" source but after my briefing I plan to use it as a tool to decide when to depart.
 
TMetzinger said:
I never realized you were there. I did a fair bit of time out there at the Coast Guard Training Center in the late '80s.
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Tim, I've been there at least 1-5 times per week since February! I thought I mentioned it in most of my posts. Sorry if I didn't. The airport is a wonderful place to be based.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
So early? I have the plane from 10:30am - 2:30pm.
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The coast is usually most likely to clear up in the afternoon, if at all, but maybe you will get lucky. The Weather Channel Web site is predicting that Half Moon Bay, which is often one of the last places to clear up, will be mostly sunny by 10:00 AM. Same for San Francisco.

By the way, it's a good idea to ask your passenger to help you watch for tracffic and point out any that they see. If the Golden Gate is clear, there could be a lot of traffic out there tomorrow.
 
So SF downtown is within the class B. It won't be easy at all to get a clearance through there, especially as a new pilot. They pick up on this immediately.

More relevant really is the wind direction. Usually, they land to the north at SFO. But, if the wind changes, they will land the south, and then you will definitely not got that clearance VFR since all the arrivals go through there.

Personally, I wouldn't do it with so little experience - just my own personal thought, YMMV, etc. I know that even with 1000+ hours in HP, fast planes, the Bay Tour is still slightly stressful. It's difficult enough to stay out of the class B, but I most certainly would not attempt to go through it for the Bay Tour this early in the game. Busy area, excellent but very demanding controllers, and unless you've had a fair bit of experience with this, you'll be overwhelmed very quickly by what's going on. NCT for the SF area is notoriously busy, and it can be difficult to get a word in.

I would stay out of the B, fly down the coast, land at Half Moon Bay, have lunch, and cross the mountains to the south by San Jose, staying clear of the B the entire time. Even that isn't easy since NCT won't get you on the radio until 2500-3000 due to the mountains.
 
sba55 said:
So SF downtown is within the class B. It won't be easy at all to get a clearance through there, especially as a new pilot. They pick up on this immediately.

More relevant really is the wind direction. Usually, they land to the north at SFO. But, if the wind changes, they will land the south, and then you will definitely not got that clearance VFR since all the arrivals go through there.

Personally, I wouldn't do it with so little experience - just my own personal thought, YMMV, etc. It's difficult enough to stay out of the class B, but I most certainly would not attempt to go through it for the Bay Tour this early in the game. Busy area, excellent but very demanding controllers, and unless you've had a fair bit of experience with this, you'll be overwhelmed very quickly by what's going on. NCT for the SF area is notoriously busy, and it can be difficult to get a word in.

I would stay out of the B, fly down the coast, land at Half Moon Bay, half lunch, and cross the mountains to the south by San Jose, staying clear of the B the entire time. Even that isn't easy since NCT won't get you on the radio until 2500-3000 due to the mountains.
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Thanks Felix, but my timeline, the plane reservation, the passenger's timeline, and my wallet won't allow for such a flight. Also, the few times I've seen Half Moon Bay (from the air, but I was not the PIC) it has been foggy. When clear it can be busy. Beautiful, but busy.

I don't really have time tonight to plan a cross country, was just going to putt around the Bay.

I don't "have to" do anything with Bravo, or anything beyond my abilities. I think that flying down to the water, getting flight following, and going back, are well within my abilities. It is just a matter of when / where / etc. As mentioned, wx could ruin everything and we just fly the area around Petaluma.

During my training I landed at OAK so I did some more intense radio work etc - it has been a while but I think I will be safe.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
I know about drunk dialing and drunk texting, but drunk POA posting? Good thing I did not post anything last night on POA when I got home, after meeting some pilots for three dollar margaritas. Oh and that shot of Patron Silver was really yummy.
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Hmm... I should have had more wine with the anniversary dinner tonight.
 
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So...err...have a good flight! :D
 
If Bob pukes on his iPhone, he can clean it off with more puke.
 
bob_albertson said:
I can no longer touch my toes I fall into the wall. Apparently that is annual g to super hot single moms!!!! Did I mention I support single mothers :-) gOd bless the anti-virgins!!! It burns whe. I pee should I be worried??? Nevermind that how s the family? Oh no family would u lke to practice at maki g one!?!? I'm all for it

What the he'll it burns when I pee. Oh well iam as
Much as a stud as secretariate without the girly parts. If I wads
A girl I'd be so all over myself lol
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Unfortunately BTDT. And with my fave - Bacardi. Not quite as amusing these days. Welcome to "Tool Time".

Enjoy your Vacay Bob. Oh, and flush your keys, please.
 
sba55 said:
So SF downtown is within the class B. It won't be easy at all to get a clearance through there, especially as a new pilot. They pick up on this immediately.
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Downtown SF is not in the class B, it's under it. The floor of class B is 2,100 MSL, and the floor of the Oakland class C is 1,500 in that location. Someone mentioned underflying the 2,100 foot shelf at 2,000, but that's cutting it too close for me, with the distractions of sightseeing and having a passenger. Flight following takes care of the class C, so my suggestion if she is unable to get the class B clearance would be to stay well north of Highway 280, in order to stay clear of the class B surface area. Downtown can be flown at 1,600 to provide a 500 foot safety margin from the class B shelf, but she would have to stay at least 2,000 feet horizontally away from the taller buildings. Unless she's flying one of the rare 152s that have DME, it can be tricky staying out of the class B. As you suggest, it may be too much for a new pilot to manage. Of course that will be up to her to decide.

I would stay out of the B, fly down the coast, land at Half Moon Bay, have lunch, and cross the mountains to the south by San Jose, staying clear of the B the entire time.
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That would require her to be below 1,500 to stay below the B, unless she flew a couple of miles offshore. Another problem is that it's not possible to predict how long the clouds are going to stay offshore at Half Moon Bay, and she could get trapped there.

Another option, if they don't give her a class B clearance, would be to just stay north of the SF shoreline, and north of the SF-Oakland Bay Bridge, well below 3000. That would be pretty safe, airspace-wise, as long as she was in contact with Norcal Approach. There's lots to see up there.

Lots to think about, Kimberly!
 
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Palmpilot said:
Downtown SF is not in the class B, it's under it. The floor of class B is 2,100 MSL, and the floor of the Oakland class C is 1,500 in that location. Someone mentioned underflying the 2,100 foot shelf at 2,000, but that's cutting it too close for me, with the distractions of sightseeing and having a passenger. Flight following takes care of the class C, so my suggestion if she is unsable to get the class B clearance would be to stay well north of highway 280, in order to stay clear of the class B surface area. Downtown can be flown at 1,600 to provide a 500 foot safety margin from the class B shelf, but she would have to stay at least 2,000 feet horizontally away from the taller buildings. Unless she's flying one of the rare 152s that have DME, it can be tricky staying out of the class B. As you suggest, it may be too much for a new pilot to manage. Of course that will be up to her to decide.



That would require her to be below 1,500 to stay below the B, unless she flew a couple of miles offshore. Another problem is that it's not possible to predict how long the clouds are going to stay offshore at Half Moon Bay, and she could get trapped there.

Another option, if they don't give her a class B clearance, would be to just stay north of the SF shoreline, and north of the SF-Oakland Bay Bridge, well below 3000. That would be pretty safe, airspace-wise, as long as she was in contact with Norcal Approach. There's lots to see up there.

Lots to think about, Kimberly!
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Thanks.

A lot to think about, agreed, which is why I've hired a CFI who I am paying to go over this stuff.

I realize that when posting online, some pilots will say "have fun" and some will say "don't do that."

And yet others have told me "push the comfort envelope just a little each time you fly. Nothing 'scary' but just something outside of your comfort zone, and yet safe."

Have I have chosen to "push it"? Perhaps.

Too far? I don't think so.

This has been my "dream flight" since day one. I was born and raised in SF for more than 20 years and am VERY familiar with the entire area. I would not attempt this in an unfamiliar place.


Kimberly
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Weather dependent, the plan is to depart tomorrow morning, fly down directly to the Golden Gate Bridge, fly over downtown (don't have to but I like that the most), fly over Alcatraz / sailboats, then go back and land. Hoping the entire thing will cost me less than 2 hours Hobbs Time.

Kimberly
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So you're gonna post a report afterwards, right?
 
BrianR said:
So you're gonna post a report afterwards, right?
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That is the plan. Though unless my passenger gives me the camera / camcorder to take home I wonder how I will post HD video.

Oh wait, I can bring my laptop! Great idea.

The story gets better, however. I posted on another aviation forum to get local "Bay Tour" advice (AOPA). Just so happens a POA member and an AOPA member are going to be there at the same time as me (at the diner after my flight).

So I might get:

My first flight
My first passenger
My first photos of me and the 152
My first videos as a private pilot
Meetings with new pilots.

Just the most perfect Saturday. Ever.

Flying is awesome.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
So I might get:

My first flight
My first passenger
My first photos of me and the 152
My first videos as a private pilot
Meetings with new pilots.

Just the most perfect Saturday. Ever.

Flying is awesome.
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That sounds like a fantastic day! Out here, the 172 I rent is still broken, and the town where the airport is located is flooded on three sides. Talked to the CFI's wife today, and she said if I can get there tomorrow, he can probably check me out in the 150!
 
BrianR said:
That sounds like a fantastic day! Out here, the 172 I rent is still broken, and the town where the airport is located is flooded on three sides. Talked to the CFI's wife today, and she said if I can get there tomorrow, he can probably check me out in the 150!
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I wonder if I'll ever fly a 150. That sounds like fun. Good luck tomorrow.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
It is probably a little bit late to post this, but I am hiring a CFI at 8am (first time meeting) for one hour to review my TAC before I go.

Weather dependent, the plan is to depart tomorrow morning, fly down directly to the Golden Gate Bridge, fly over downtown (don't have to but I like that the most), fly over Alcatraz / sailboats, then go back and land. Hoping the entire thing will cost me less than 2 hours Hobbs Time. If the weather is a factor (Golden Gate Bridge is foggy), I don't really have a "Plan B" except to sit around the airport and wait for the clouds to clear. I have the plane reserved for 4 hours so this is a good plan. I will have a "must leave by" time and if that time comes I'll simply go somewhere else or perhaps just explore the area - never done that before.

Another idea is to fly above / around the area and still do the GGB flight regardless of fog and marine layers since they tend to be down low. As crazy as it sounds, there are often these sort of foggy clouds that hug the two "golden" (red) arches and don't actually extend outwards over the other bridges.

So:

Assuming I get my "dream flight" without clouds in the way to spoil my day, does anyone have any inputs to share?

A pilot at STS told me to simply fly 3500 the whole time, getting Bravo clearance, along with flight following.

Another idea (though not recommended) is to fly the whole thing VFR without talking to anyone. This can be tricky without a GPS and would be a lot lower than 3500.

Another idea is to get flight following but stay clear of the Charlie and the Bravo.

Thanks in advance for your suggestions. I do NOT have a GPS and only own a SF TAC and a SF Sectional.


Kimberly
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18 years of doing Bay Tours and I always am on with ATC and I am never as high as 3500' and often below 500 over the water. I avoid the Bravo by staying under it although I did need to take some pictures in the "Surface Ring" of the SFO Class B and had no problems getting cleared in and maneuvering.

If there are clouds underneath you, how do you locate your emergency landing spot when the engine dies?
 
Henning said:
18 years of doing Bay Tours and I always am on with ATC and I am never as high as 3500' and often below 500 over the water. I avoid the Bravo by staying under it although I did need to take some pictures in the "Surface Ring" of the SFO Class B and had no problems getting cleared in and maneuvering.

If there are clouds underneath you, how do you locate your emergency landing spot when the engine dies?
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I was about to go to bed and now there is a quiz?

I was re-thinking my plan and if there are clouds I most likely will not fly above them. I realize I can do so legally but since it is my first flight this would probably be a good time to simply steer clear of the clouds altogether.

Perhaps not the answer you were looking for, but as people on this and the other site keep reminding me, I will have the life of another person, the airplane, and the ATC people to worry about. I do not need to add weather to the equation.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Thanks Felix, but my timeline, the plane reservation, the passenger's timeline, and my wallet won't allow for such a flight. Also, the few times I've seen Half Moon Bay (from the air, but I was not the PIC) it has been foggy. When clear it can be busy. Beautiful, but busy.

I don't really have time tonight to plan a cross country, was just going to putt around the Bay.

I don't "have to" do anything with Bravo, or anything beyond my abilities. I think that flying down to the water, getting flight following, and going back, are well within my abilities. It is just a matter of when / where / etc. As mentioned, wx could ruin everything and we just fly the area around Petaluma.

During my training I landed at OAK so I did some more intense radio work etc - it has been a while but I think I will be safe.
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Sounds like you've thought it through, which is what really matters and what will keep you safe. I just wanted to get across the fact that this area _can_ (doesn't have to be) very quickly become very challenging. Good on you for going out there and getting experience! :)
 
sba55 said:
Sounds like you've thought it through, which is what really matters and what will keep you safe. I just wanted to get across the fact that this area _can_ (doesn't have to be) very quickly become very challenging. Good on you for going out there and getting experience! :)
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Funny thing is you are not the only one with this opinion. Both on POA and the other board today, I was "warned" that it might not be a good first flight.

Here was what one pilot did say though:



While I agree with the reccomendations to bring an experienced pilot/CFI along during the first experience with complex airspace, I will say that performing a bay tour when approaching from the north is something that any new PP should be able to do on their own.

I spent the entire day after my checkride giving rides to friends around the bridge/city without ever having been there with my CFI. There is no issue with it whatsoever.

With that said, the first time I did an actual bravo transition to San Carlos when coming from the north, I did have a pilot friend in the right seat with me to follow along the TAC especially when departing SQL and having to thread the needle transitioning across the bay and contending with b,c and d airspace.

My advice is to carefully study the TAC, get flight following and go have fun.
 
And then of course my reply too:

Thanks for posting this. Good to hear. But again, I welcome all opinions - good and bad. My instructor taught me to approach every situation by thinking about all the things that could go wrong, so that I can plan accordingly . . . for example, if my brakes were to fail during runup - am I pointed at the dip in the grass? A pole / light? The ramp which goes back to the safety of the parking spaces?

I don't have a photographic memory so my plan is to do all of the flight planning the morning of / right before (tomorrow). Tonight I will get an outlook briefing, tomorrow I will get a real one, and I will have the phone numbers of various automated wx in my phone too for last minute checks. I have the GGB webcam which shows if the fog is still there. I'll bring with me all of the frequencies / maps / etc. Like you said, I should be fine - nothing I cannot handle. I will just need to brief my passenger (who is someone I trust very much) to "be quiet" if / when ATC talks so I can listen for my tail number. I will probably not start flight following until I am south of Petaluma, which is nice for the few minutes it will give me after takeoff to explain things to my passenger.
 
Which sparks the question: what COULD go wrong?

Weather issues
Airplane (mechanical) issues
Passenger issues
ATC issues / radio issues (it hasn't always been reliable)
FARs regarding wx clearance, obstruction clearance above / next to, airpace rules (bravo)
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
And then of course my reply too:

Thanks for posting this. Good to hear. But again, I welcome all opinions - good and bad. My instructor taught me to approach every situation by thinking about all the things that could go wrong, so that I can plan accordingly . . . for example, if my brakes were to fail during runup - am I pointed at the dip in the grass? A pole / light? The ramp which goes back to the safety of the parking spaces?

I don't have a photographic memory so my plan is to do all of the flight planning the morning of / right before (tomorrow). Tonight I will get an outlook briefing, tomorrow I will get a real one, and I will have the phone numbers of various automated wx in my phone too for last minute checks. I have the GGB webcam which shows if the fog is still there. I'll bring with me all of the frequencies / maps / etc. Like you said, I should be fine - nothing I cannot handle. I will just need to brief my passenger (who is someone I trust very much) to "be quiet" if / when ATC talks so I can listen for my tail number. I will probably not start flight following until I am south of Petaluma, which is nice for the few minutes it will give me after takeoff to explain things to my passenger.
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I didn't mean it as a "warning". Really. Since you are now a PP, it's up to you. And I have a history of arguing that any PP should be able to do this. They should really also be able to fly in inadvertent IMC for a few minutes, for example. But this is wishful thinking, unfortunately.

You are ahead of the curve just by virtue of being engaged here Most pilots aren't that engaged, and they won't think things through, and this is why they get into trouble. As you know, NCT is excellent with VFR advisories. Probably the best facility I've ever seen. Flying across the GG bridge is great and rather easy. Flying to the east of SF is very interesting and easy as well. Either way, be safe!
 
sba55 said:
I didn't mean it as a "warning". Really. Since you are now a PP, it's up to you. And I have a history of arguing that any PP should be able to do this. They should really also be able to fly in inadvertent IMC for a few minutes, for example. But this is wishful thinking, unfortunately.

You are ahead of the curve just by virtue of being engaged here Most pilots aren't that engaged, and they won't think things through, and this is why they get into trouble. As you know, NCT is excellent with VFR advisories. Probably the best facility I've ever seen. Flying across the GG bridge is great and rather easy. Flying to the east of SF is very interesting and easy as well. Either way, be safe!
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Felix,

Thank you (again). Here are some further tips from a pilot on another board who says he has flown the Bay Tour more than 100 times:

1) Tomorrow morning will most likely be foggy in the North Bay and over the GGB. If you're lucky, you'll see the tops of the bridge towers poking out, but given the forecast, the layer may be too thick for that. If I were you I'd delay my planned departure till around 11.

2) Best altitude for a Bay Tour (fog permitting) is 2,000' MSL. This allows you to remain clear of Bravo while flying over downtown SF. Just don't stray above 2100' into the Bravo without clearance. You have a TAC chart, so that should be plenty.

3) Please do talk to Norcal Approach. They are very accomodating. You'd be surprised how many planes are out on a nice weekend day, doing the tour, and it's really nice to get those traffic advisories from ATC. A lot of those planes aren't talking to ATC, and I have no idea why. Radar advisories are free (for now anyways), and ATC is usually happy to provide them.

4) You will probably not get cleared over downtown SF at 3500' if you're just doing a Bay Tour. It's possible, but rare.

5) Bring a camera and enjoy!
 
Well, it's fun to discuss this :)

kimberlyanne546 said:
Tomorrow morning will most likely be foggy in the North Bay and over the GGB. If you're lucky, you'll see the tops of the bridge towers poking out, but given the forecast, the layer may be too thick for that. If I were you I'd delay my planned departure till around 11.
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Maybe. Of course, Petaluma won't be foggy for as long as the Bay. I think there isn't much harm leaving whenever you want - you'll be able to see the fog in time, and if you don't want to do there, just turn around.

kimberlyanne546 said:
Best altitude for a Bay Tour (fog permitting) is 2,000' MSL. This allows you to remain clear of Bravo while flying over downtown SF. Just don't stray above 2100' into the Bravo without clearance. You have a TAC chart, so that should be plenty.
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To me, 2000' above San Francisco is unsafe. There's no place to land safely over downtown and 2000' won't give you many options.

kimberlyanne546 said:
Please do talk to Norcal Approach. They are very accomodating. You'd be surprised how many planes are out on a nice weekend day, doing the tour, and it's really nice to get those traffic advisories from ATC. A lot of those planes aren't talking to ATC, and I have no idea why. Radar advisories are free (for now anyways), and ATC is usually happy to provide them.
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Yes, and you'd probably also be amazed how many of the people doing this are not very smart. As always, the danger is often not because of something you do....but something they do.

kimberlyanne546 said:
You will probably not get cleared over downtown SF at 3500' if you're just doing a Bay Tour. It's possible, but rare.
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It's not rare at all, and this is a much better altitude to do this at. The trick is asking correctly - something the vast majority of PPs can't do. Succinct, no "ahhhs", and to the point. Show them beforehand that you can fly a track. I would be shocked if you couldn't ask for and receive a clearance VFR at 3500 direct over SF. As long as they aren't landing to the south.....

kimberlyanne546 said:
5) Bring a camera and enjoy!
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No. Give a camera to your pax and worry about flying the plane. There'll be enough to do, I promise :)
 
Thanks, I think he meant the camera was for the pax.

Also, I have an EXACT plan regarding the Bravo (to be discussed with that new CFI who I'm meeting at a coffee shop at 8am):

A pilot who flies out of KSTS talked to me about this at the Wings Over Wine Country airshow.

He said exactly what you said:

It is how you ask.

He told me to do this - ask for a Bay Tour clearance into the Bravo, telling them you will maintain 3500 feet and won't go West of the 101.

I think it was that or something similar. So I guess the whole "you don't ask, you don't get" will apply here too. All they can do is say "no".

It is a safer altitude, I will be "cleared" so not worried about staying away anymore, I will be above those VFR pilots who are going UNDER the Bravo and possibly not even talking to ATC, etc.

Good plan? What do you think?
 
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