Bay Tour Flight Tomorrow Morning

bob_albertson said:
I can no longer touch my toes I fall into the wall. Apparently that is annual g to super hot single moms!!!! Did I mention I support single mothers :-) gOd bless the anti-virgins!!! It burns whe. I pee should I be worried??? Nevermind that how s the family? Oh no family would u lke to practice at maki g one!?!? I'm all for it

What the he'll it burns when I pee. Oh well iam as
Much as a stud as secretariate without the girly parts. If I wads
A girl I'd be so all over myself lol
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Wow. You posted this with your real name attached to it.. Nice. :goofy:
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Thanks, I think he meant the camera was for the pax.

Also, I have an EXACT plan regarding the Bravo (to be discussed with that new CFI who I'm meeting at a coffee shop at 8am):

A pilot who flies out of KSTS talked to me about this at the Wings Over Wine Country airshow.

He said exactly what you said:

It is how you ask.

He told me to do this - ask for a Bay Tour clearance into the Bravo, telling them you will maintain 3500 feet and won't go West of the 101.

I think it was that or something similar. So I guess the whole "you don't ask, you don't get" will apply here too. All they can do is say "no".

It is a safer altitude, I will be "cleared" so not worried about staying away anymore, I will be above those VFR pilots who are going UNDER the Bravo and possibly not even talking to ATC, etc.

Good plan? What do you think?
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Sounds good. It's probably a great idea that you're meeting with your CFI in the morning - you can ask him any questions that might come up. You've way over-thought this already, which is excellent :) Really. Can't hurt to think about it too much! That's what makes good pilots IMO.
 
sba55 said:
Sounds good. It's probably a great idea that you're meeting with your CFI in the morning - you can ask him any questions that might come up. You've way over-thought this already, which is excellent :) Really. Can't hurt to think about it too much! That's what makes good pilots IMO.
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LOL. I am good at over-thinking things. You should have SEEN my solo cross country planning. Insane. Heck I showed the checkride XC plans at the fly-in to POA pilots in Michigan - brought them to help a fellow pilot prepare for the checkride and to discuss do's and don'ts.

Those pilots can verify - lots of overthinking!


Kimberly
 
Kim-

I did a Bay tour and on down to Monterrey when I was a freshly-certificated pilot, and from O69 to boot - probably in the same plane you're flying! Great fun, not at all intimidating. Norcal were very accommodating controllers.

Enjoy!

---

I wonder idly: is Bob just messin' with us?
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
I was about to go to bed and now there is a quiz?

I was re-thinking my plan and if there are clouds I most likely will not fly above them. I realize I can do so legally but since it is my first flight this would probably be a good time to simply steer clear of the clouds altogether.
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Almost the answer I was looking for, leave out the "first flight" stipulation. Flying on top of a solid low layer in a single engine airplane is dirt stupid, without an instrument rating it's even worse: "dumber than dirt." If the conditions aren't "Broken" and forecast clearing, you don't go out on top of a layer unless the ceilings are reporting above 3000'. You need to be able to always see your way to the ground. If it starts closing underneath you and all around, don't hesitate, get under it quick. I have had it go from Severe Clear which was forecast to remain for 2 days, to a solid deck over the entire Mississippi vally region all the way to Ohio in less than 5 minutes. I left on my instrument check ride on a clear day in Long Beach, I finished it shooting a partial panel VOR approach in actual down to 800'. I happens fast, do not delay in getting under. If the ceiling is too low to continue underneath, land where you can survive, don't worry about the plane. Keep it wings level, tail down and going in a straight line till you stop and there's a good chance you survive. If you get stuck on top of a low layer without instrument proficiency, or if your engine dies, you chances of survival are inverted. If you cannot see a way to the ground that doesn't involve going through a cloud, you are in serious trouble. DO NOT put yourself in that position.
 
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Henning said:
Almost the answer I was looking for, leave out the "first flight" stipulation. Flying on top of a solid low layer in a single engine airplane is dirt stupid, without an instrument rating it's even worse: "dumber than dirt." If the conditions aren't "Broken" and forecast clearing, you don't go out on top of a layer unless the ceilings are reporting above 3000'. You need to be able to always see your way to the ground. If it starts closing underneath you and all around, don't hesitate, get under it quick. I have had it go from Severe Clear which was forecast to remain for 2 days, to a solid deck over the entire Mississippi vally region all the way to Ohio in less than 5 minutes. I left on my instrument check ride on a clear day in Long Beach, I finished it shooting a partial panel VOR approach in actual down to 800'. I happens fast, do not delay in getting under. If the ceiling is too low to continue underneath, land where you can survive, don't worry about the plane. Keep it wings level, tail down and going in a straight line till you stop and there's a good chance you survive. If you get stuck on top of a low layer without instrument proficiency, or if your engine dies, you chances of survival are inverted. If you cannot see a way to the ground that doesn't involve going through a cloud, you are in serious trouble. DO NOT put yourself in that position.
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Thanks. I heart POA now. I appreciate the advice. I know this sounds silly but I am realizing how little my PASSENGER thinks about all this. It is "strange" to be one way in real life and then in the plane become PIC.

(Yes I can come across as "timid" in person)

Meaning - I will need to make it VERY CLEAR that my airplane is exactly that - my airplane. All without scaring the passenger, going into details about emergencies and what CAN go wrong, etc.

Throwing a passenger into the mix will definitely add an interesting challenge.

Thank goodness this is someone I've known for many years and there is no doubt in my mind I can trust this person.
 
Enjoy the coffee. You could be drinking a lot of it tomorrow morning.
 
SCCutler said:
Kim-

I did a Bay tour and on down to Monterrey when I was a freshly-certificated pilot, and from O69 to boot - probably in the same plane you're flying! Great fun, not at all intimidating. Norcal were very accommodating controllers.

Enjoy!

---

I wonder idly: is Bob just messin' with us?
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Spike:

What year was this? What type of plane? A 152? Cool.....

I will ask Bob tomorrow if I remember and then get back to you on whether or not he was messing with us. Some of that was just too funny.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
I will ask Bob tomorrow if I remember and then get back to you on whether or not he was messing with us. Some of that was just too funny.
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The dude is either a.) hammered or b.) left his name logged on at a public terminal.

I'm going with hammered..
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Thanks. I heart POA now. I appreciate the advice. I know this sounds silly but I am realizing how little my PASSENGER thinks about all this. It is "strange" to be one way in real life and then in the plane become PIC.

(Yes I can come across as "timid" in person)

Meaning - I will need to make it VERY CLEAR that my airplane is exactly that - my airplane. All without scaring the passenger, going into details about emergencies and what CAN go wrong, etc.

Throwing a passenger into the mix will definitely add an interesting challenge.

Thank goodness this is someone I've known for many years and there is no doubt in my mind I can trust this person.
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I used to fly with an old guy, he was in his 80s 20 years ago. He got his rating before WWII in a WWI surplus airplane. He told me that before the examiner got in the plane with you you had to go up and demonstrate a 2 turn spin to a heading while he watched from the ground. If you survived that, the examiner would get in. He told me that spins were always taught for 2 basic reasons, first in those days design wasn't as sophisticated and planes weren't built "spin proof".The other reason though was that they were taught to get down through a layer you slowed down right over it and put it into a spin and recover out the bottom. He didn't learn how to fly instruments until the war.
 
Henning said:
The other reason though was that they were taught to get down through a layer you slowed down right over it and put it into a spin and recover out the bottom. He didn't learn how to fly instruments until the war.
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My grandfather always tells me a story about the only time he ever did it in actual conditions.

He took off VFR and found himself on top of it, so he spun down through it.
 
Outlook brief (and a VERY helpful briefer) done.

Strange CA Bay Area weather tonight:

SIGMET for severe turbulence, pirep from a King Air reported "extreme" turbulence
Thunderstorms that weren't predicted to go past the Sierras (but did anyways)
IFR / Marine Layer
Easterly winds (very unusual, due to an omega block)

Tomorrow's "outlook" based on 3 area TAF's is as expected - taking off anytime after 11am would be best, after 12pm even better, but IF (and that's a big if) the thunderstorms were to come up from Fresno it would be during the heat of the day aka afternoon.

Argh - pilot stuff! Decisions, decisions.

Takeoff in the morning / too early - sure you get up but the bridge is fogged over.

Takeoff later / closer to the afternoon - more likely to have thunderstorms (if they come), more winds from the winds aloft forecast.

I need to brush up on my weather skills............. and the briefer agreed with me that Bay Area sigmets are pretty rare . . . we'll see what tomorrow brings.

Goodnight.
 
As they say in the Air Force: "If you can't get up before dawn to do something, then it isn't worth doing!"

Get to bed. You've got a pre-dawn briefing.
 
It's funny how many different opinions can come from so many different folks.

I trained under the bravo flying out of San Carlos and Palo Alto. I was signed off for bravo while still a student pilot and crossed it solo many times before getting my ticket and never thought anything of it. It was just a normal part of the deal. Tell ground where you're going, they give you a code, and by the time you switch to norcal from the tower, you're getting cleared into bravo and that's that. No need to even ask.

I've found the controllers to be polite and helpful and have only had one of them send me across the bay at 1,000' (never found out why) and it hardly seems like much of a workload. You either stay south and west of 101, or they ask you to cross directly over the center of SFO, which I have always loved. SO badass watching the jets take off and land underneath you.

All of it comes down to knowing the local landmarks. They call 101 the "Bayshore Freeway" which might trip someone up. "Direct midfield" is right over SFO.

You can also ask for altitudes. Asking for 3500 keeps you with norcal approach, which is easier than flying at 2500 -- they pass you off to the SFO tower where it does get a bit busier, but even that really isn't so bad. They have you on radar, you've got a squawk code, and even if you can't get a word in edgewise they'll be sure to speak up if you are doing something they don't like.

Just be sure you hear the words "cleared into bravo" before you wander into it, and the rest of it will sort out just fine. It's really the same thing as flying into class C, except you're cleared to enter it. Aside from that, it's really no big deal.

My CFI even got approved for a low approach at 28L at SFO once. Didn't ask for it. The tower just said he was cleared for it. He asked the controller if he was joking and he said, "well, yeah, but if you want to... go for it..." and he did. This was during a demo flight and he had to tell the guy, "Now this isn't something you'll ever expect to see again..."
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Spike:

What year was this? What type of plane? A 152? Cool.....
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Okay, I guess it wasn't the same plane. It was a 172, and it was...

...I guess, 2003, because I did not have my IR yet (was working on it), and (topical surprise) an unforecast, wafer-thin marine layer popped up on our way back from MRY. Like Henning says, you sure as hell don't want to be stuck on top of it, so I slithered down under it, and picked my way back over San Pablo Bay and through the valley (Sonoma Valley?) to Petaluma. Maybe a 1,300' base?

Actually, at the time, I was marginal freaking out, but Celia looked at the sectional, and said, "can't we just go here (pointing to secure, safe and legal route)?" No stress.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
I wonder if I'll ever fly a 150. That sounds like fun. Good luck tomorrow.
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150's aren't fun if you want to get anywhere. They are a ton of fun if you wanna go have some fun being low and slow. The 152 I spent some time in was the first plane I did a x/c in. I figured I'd not take it on anymore trips after that because the trucks on the interstate were passing me. It was also probably the most difficult plane to prevent from floating even when on speed lol

Bob
 
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sba55 said:
So SF downtown is within the class B. It won't be easy at all to get a clearance through there, especially as a new pilot. They pick up on this immediately.

More relevant really is the wind direction. Usually, they land to the north at SFO. But, if the wind changes, they will land the south, and then you will definitely not got that clearance VFR since all the arrivals go through there.

Personally, I wouldn't do it with so little experience - just my own personal thought, YMMV, etc. I know that even with 1000+ hours in HP, fast planes, the Bay Tour is still slightly stressful. It's difficult enough to stay out of the class B, but I most certainly would not attempt to go through it for the Bay Tour this early in the game. Busy area, excellent but very demanding controllers, and unless you've had a fair bit of experience with this, you'll be overwhelmed very quickly by what's going on. NCT for the SF area is notoriously busy, and it can be difficult to get a word in.

I would stay out of the B, fly down the coast, land at Half Moon Bay, have lunch, and cross the mountains to the south by San Jose, staying clear of the B the entire time. Even that isn't easy since NCT won't get you on the radio until 2500-3000 due to the mountains.
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SBA, It is under the Class B but you can still go over most of it (the Presidio and South SF) and still be under the 2000 foot ring. I've flown to Half Moon Bay numerous, boo coo times without bothering to get a Class B clearance. I mean if you want to stay high and out of the water, you don't have much of a choice. Maintaining legal cloud clearance can be problematic if the marine later is covering the coast though.
 
Hey Kim if I ever make it that way would you be willing to take me on a Bay tour? I'd love to see it but I think if I went on my own I'd miss everything cause I'd be too wrapped up with minding my own airspace (sad and kinda retarded pun intended :))
 
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bob_albertson said:
PS.... I apparently was having fun last night - Sorry bout that. If the posts weren't there then I'd probably not believe you if you said it was me. I am at a place I've been coming to every September for 17 years. Last night I had some friends that were eggin' me on. So no worries, I dont fit the stereotype of a between trips drinker. My Dad is getting some kind of award from the Air Force today, here, and I'm going for a ride in a KIOWA this afternoon, pretty excited bout that. Have fun on your trip Kim
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:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: Dude, you were living proof why phones should have a breathalyzer for an "unlock" switch...:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

So who was the lucky gal?:lol:
 
Henning said:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: Dude, you were living proof why phones should have a breathalyzer for an "unlock" switch...:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

So who was the lucky gal?:lol:
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Haha that reminds me of a joke I use with brand new flight attendants.... I tell them we have to let the Captain go to the plane first for the first flight of the day cause with his past history he has to blow into that (I point at the lowest pitot tube) and I tell them he gets the door to unlock that way :D
 
bob_albertson said:
Haha that reminds me of a joke I use with brand new flight attendants.... I tell them we have to let the Captain go to the plane first for the first flight of the day cause with his past history he has to blow into that (I point at the lowest pitot tube) and I tell them he gets the door to unlock that way :D
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:lol:
 
bob_albertson said:
PS.... I apparently was having fun last night - Sorry bout that. If the posts weren't there then I'd probably not believe you if you said it was me. I am at a place I've been coming to every September for 17 years. Last night I had some friends that were eggin' me on. So no worries, I dont fit the stereotype of a between trips drinker. My Dad is getting some kind of award from the Air Force today, here, and I'm going for a ride in a KIOWA this afternoon, pretty excited bout that. Have fun on your trip Kim
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FWIW - you may want to throttle back or remove your real name from the posts. You may want to read the "public media" section of your new contract and company policies concerning public media. There are previous co-workers of yours who have been fired for comments on a PRIVATE message board, much less public.

Not being a jerk, just trying to help, especially since you have a picture of a company aircraft as your sig.
 
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Henning said:
Especially since a Google search of your name will hit on POA posts.
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... which also brings up a blog with YouTube videos violating FARs and company policies, both of which are firing offenses..
 
Sac Arrow said:
SBA, It is under the Class B but you can still go over most of it (the Presidio and South SF) and still be under the 2000 foot ring. I've flown to Half Moon Bay numerous, boo coo times without bothering to get a Class B clearance. I mean if you want to stay high and out of the water, you don't have much of a choice. Maintaining legal cloud clearance can be problematic if the marine later is covering the coast though.
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Yeah, the northern part of downtown is below the class B, but a lot of the city is in the class B as well. Really have to watch those boundaries!
 
I went back and deleted any post of mine that quoted compromising material. (I found out that editing it out wasn't enough, because of the edit history feature.)
 
This is one of the reasons I never, ever, use my real identity on the Internet (at least on any type of message boards, regardless of the type and content.) No tweet, no Myspace, no Fagbook, none of that.
 
Sac Arrow said:
This is one of the reasons I never, ever, use my real identity on the Internet (at least on any type of message boards, regardless of the type and content.) No tweet, no Myspace, no Fagbook, none of that.
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Chicken. ;)
 
Just to veer back to the OP's topic for a moment ...

I was on the tour at Alcatraz this morning and at 10:20 am a blue-and-white Cessna flew overhead northbound. Kimberly, was that you?

:)
 
Best Day Ever Except I Hate Marine Layers

I will start a new thread.

Need to upload pics.

Finally - a photo of my beloved plane, just as I'm about to get checked out next week in the 172 (goodbye tiny 152):

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6134637738_e2bd52a19e_z.jpg
 
Pilawt said:
Just to veer back to the OP's topic for a moment ...

I was on the tour at Alcatraz this morning and at 10:20 am a blue-and-white Cessna flew overhead northbound. Kimberly, was that you?

:)
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Sorry we were still eating breakfast. Not me, not until way later.

Kimberly
 
bob_albertson said:
Hey Kim if I ever make it that way would you be willing to take me on a Bay tour? I'd love to see it but I think if I went on my own I'd miss everything cause I'd be too wrapped up with minding my own airspace (sad and kinda retarded pun intended :))
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Of course I will take you on a Bay Tour. In fact, today was the beginning of what I hope to be MANY Bay Tours. Now if only the weather will cooperate next time. In fact, if we didn't waste time with weather, airpace, landing at other airports, and checking out his property (they have a duck hunting shack and some surrounding land) - we would have been back in way less time. Only 1.5 or so on the hobbs, super good deal. If I really tried I might have been able to do it around 1 hour or slightly over. I will do many things "better" next time - but it was the perfect flight for me. And the passenger said he wants to go again!!!
 
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