Bariatric Surgery

With the amount of sodium that most people get in their diets, it is virtually impossible to drink so much water so as to reduce your electrolytes to dangerously low levels. In fact, hypernatremia, a condition in which there is too much sodium (one of the four primary electrolytes in the body) in relation to the amount of water, can be life-threatening, and is caused by drinking too little water.

You can drink too much water, yes, but that is usually found in users of club drugs. Drinking too little water is a much bigger and more common problem. I don't know where this new thing about "you don't need to drink water" is coming from, but it sure has become a thing lately.

The whole do not drink so much water is a public over reaction to the press about some athletes dying because they drank to much water and avoided sports drinks. I am fairly sure @Ryanb is very wrong on a lot of his points in relation to water.
Start with the basics.
  • The concept of hydration is very simple, it is the noun form of the very hydrate, meaning something which contains water.
  • Dehydration, a lack of sufficient water.
  • Hypernatremia, a higher than normal level of salt in your blood stream. And salt, in the chemical meaning, not in terms of sodium chloride. Often the primary cause insufficient presence of water. For non-athletes this is a more common issue.
  • Hyponatremia, is a condition where the salt levels have dropped below the normal range. Normal answer, eat something with potassium and drink a sports drink if not too bad.
  • Your stomach is not directly connected to your kiddneys. To urinate out water, your body has to absorb it into the blood stream, and the kidneys have to process it out
That will do as a starting point. Energy drinks got there start from a study done at the University of Florida, hence the name Gatorade. They found athletes drank too much water and had performance problems caused by low salt levels (e.g. electrolytes). Since then people drink them all the time, even when not needed. So the American way, we have gone to the extreme in the other direction, and now everyone is drinking too much water....

Tim




 
@gdwindowpane

When you go, make sure you discuss with the weight specialist that you want to address life style issues that you can personally sustain forever before you address the weight issue.
This gives them a different set of priorities. Losing weight is one thing, based on your comments you have done it before. But keeping it off is much harder and requires a new perspective on your lifestyle.
The fundamental item for me, with a diet, your feel like you are being deprived. With a life style change, you change your food pallet, energy level, approach.... and you never feel deprived.

Tim
 
How much water you "should" drink in a day varies a lot depending on how much water is in the food you eat, how much you sweat, how much you are sweating where you don't even know you are sweating because it immediately evaporates away if you live in very hot dry climate, how much physical activity you are engaged in, how much caffeine or other drugs that act like diuretics you consume, how much salt you consume, whether you drink alcohol, and probably some more things I can't think of off hand.

You should go by your urine, if dark and smelly, you need to drink more. If copious, light in color and odor free, you're hydrated enough. Thirst is a helpful guide too but as we age thirst can blunt and we need to consciously pay more attention, and especially be alert for headaches and lethargy.
 
How much water you "should" drink in a day varies a lot depending on how much water is in the food you eat, how much you sweat, how much you are sweating where you don't even know you are sweating because it immediately evaporates away if you live in very hot dry climate, how much physical activity you are engaged in, how much caffeine or other drugs that act like diuretics you consume, how much salt you consume, whether you drink alcohol, and probably some more things I can't think of off hand.

You should go by your urine, if dark and smelly, you need to drink more. If copious, light in color and odor free, you're hydrated enough. Thirst is a helpful guide too but as we age thirst can blunt and we need to consciously pay more attention, and especially be alert for headaches and lethargy.

I use the urine color method. Have done so for years....

Tim
 
Surgery for a condition you can correct yourself is not a prudent decision.
The problem is that some people just can't do it themselves.

I firmly believe that asking some compulsive eaters to eat less is like asking some homosexuals to have straight sex. It is something they can't control, at least indefinitely.
 
Next step for me is an appointment with a weight loss medical center. I assume they will assess my situation and provide medical advice to move forward. I have tried a keto diet in the past (Atkins) and lost 40+ pounds of which I gained back 40++.

I may give it another try. We’ll see what the Dr. at the weight loss center has to say. My only concern would be his motivation to advise bariatric surgery (his specialty).

If he recomends and I decide to persue surgery I am leaning towards the sleeve procedure as it seems to have the greatest amount of success stories.

The fact is that I need to do something.

Thanks for all the comments. It has definitly provided food for thought (pun intended lol).
Good luck, and keep us posted.
 
Next step for me is an appointment with a weight loss medical center. I assume they will assess my situation and provide medical advice to move forward. I have tried a keto diet in the past (Atkins) and lost 40+ pounds of which I gained back 40++.

I may give it another try. We’ll see what the Dr. at the weight loss center has to say. My only concern would be his motivation to advise bariatric surgery (his specialty).

If he recomends and I decide to persue surgery I am leaning towards the sleeve procedure as it seems to have the greatest amount of success stories.

The fact is that I need to do something.

Thanks for all the comments. It has definitly provided food for thought (pun intended lol).
How much do you weigh and/or need to lose? And any associated medical problems (diabetes, BP, etc.)? The first step to fixing a problem is admitting that there is one. I'm in your corner and I wish you the best of luck in your search for answers.
 
You should go by your urine, if dark and smelly, you need to drink more. If copious, light in color and odor free, you're hydrated enough. Thirst is a helpful guide too but as we age thirst can blunt and we need to consciously pay more attention, and especially be alert for headaches and lethargy.

That works for a kidney healthy person engaging in regular day to day activities. Where this fails are situations where someone engages in high intensity exercise in the heat and where he lacks the opportunity to void. e.g. a marathon, triathlon or fighting a house-fire. Those are the situations when a hydration schedule is required and when it may be necessary to supplement sodium and potassium along with glucose and water (ORS or Gatorade). However 99% of the Gatorade is consumed by people who at the time of consumption don't fall into one of those categories. An hour at the gym with a gossip break between weights and cardio is not the level of exercise that puts you at risk of hyponatremic dehydration ;-)
 
That works for a kidney healthy person engaging in regular day to day activities. Where this fails are situations where someone engages in high intensity exercise in the heat and where he lacks the opportunity to void. e.g. a marathon, triathlon or fighting a house-fire. Those are the situations when a hydration schedule is required and when it may be necessary to supplement sodium and potassium along with glucose and water (ORS or Gatorade). However 99% of the Gatorade is consumed by people who at the time of consumption don't fall into one of those categories. An hour at the gym with a gossip break between weights and cardio is not the level of exercise that puts you at risk of hyponatremic dehydration ;-)
B-b-b-but, my water needs electrolytes, Smartwater says so... ;)
 
Low carb/keto took off my weight. 370+ on the left, 240 on the right. I agree with @Ryanb. If you have to change the lifestyle to get the surgery, and after the surgery, why not just eat like they make you eat after the surgery without getting the surgery and taking all that risk? And it's all about what you eat. Exercise is just to keep you physically fit in some manner. I've proven experientially that weight loss is 100% diet.

Huge congratulations, not an easy thing to do. Moreover, not everyone can do it. A good example, put me in a room with lots of yummy homemade food and I loose the rigid self control that otherwise dominates my existence. Thankfully I am rarely in a room with lots of homemade yummy food, so I'm OK.

I'm sorry, but the answer to my question is a resounding "no". Electrolytes are salts. They regulate certain functions in the body. I guess in some ways you could say that they hydrate in the sense that they regulate the flow of water in and out of cells, but they are not in any way a form of hydration. You could have all the electrolytes in the world and not be hydrated.

With the amount of sodium that most people get in their diets, it is virtually impossible to drink so much water so as to reduce your electrolytes to dangerously low levels. In fact, hypernatremia, a condition in which there is too much sodium (one of the four primary electrolytes in the body) in relation to the amount of water, can be life-threatening, and is caused by drinking too little water.

You can drink too much water, yes, but that is usually found in users of club drugs. Drinking too little water is a much bigger and more common problem. I don't know where this new thing about "you don't need to drink water" is coming from, but it sure has become a thing lately.
Electrolites are not just sodium chloride. They include things like potassium, magnesium, iron, calcium and load of other ions that you may or may not get in your diet. And yes, you can drink enough to wash them away, I do every day. I have to supplement my diet to be able to indulge my drinking habits, and I am not talking about the bourbon.
 
That works for a kidney healthy person engaging in regular day to day activities. Where this fails are situations where someone engages in high intensity exercise in the heat and where he lacks the opportunity to void. e.g. a marathon, triathlon or fighting a house-fire. Those are the situations when a hydration schedule is required and when it may be necessary to supplement sodium and potassium along with glucose and water (ORS or Gatorade). However 99% of the Gatorade is consumed by people who at the time of consumption don't fall into one of those categories. An hour at the gym with a gossip break between weights and cardio is not the level of exercise that puts you at risk of hyponatremic dehydration ;-)

As I posted that I thought, "I should add that I mean for the population in general." But I didn't. You're right, most of us aren't extreme athletes, and if you have kidney disease, you shouldn't take SGOTI advice about your urine.
 
@gdwindowpane , if you get nothing else from this thread, get this. There are only a couple of people in this thread that even attempted to answer your question. Listen to them. Everything else is noise, there is very little signal here. Good luck.
 
How much do you weigh and/or need to lose? And any associated medical problems (diabetes, BP, etc.)? The first step to fixing a problem is admitting that there is one.

According to the online charts I need to lose 110 lbs. Online calculator has my BMI at 42.3. I would be happy with a 70 lb loss.

I am a type II diabetic controlled by oral medication. BP and cholesterol controlled by medication as well. I have OSA controlled by CPAP machine.

I don't live a sedentary life style. I have a house on 44 acres with a pond that keeps me very busy outside. I'm not sitting around eating bonbons, I don't really like sweets. My bad carbs come from pasta, bread, pizza, etc.

Not sure what caused the derailment when I lost the 40+ lbs, too many years ago to remember. I fear that this will happen again.

Like I said I'm just beginning the research and will probably go Keto again to see what happens. And before someone mentions it I know I shouldn't set myself up for failure by thinking that I will fall off the bandwagon again but I never enter in to such an endeavor thinking pessimistically. I am truly an optimist.

Thanks again for all the comments!
 
Surgery for a condition you can correct yourself is not a prudent decision.

The problem is that some people just can't do it themselves.

I firmly believe that asking some compulsive eaters to eat less is like asking some homosexuals to have straight sex. It is something they can't control, at least indefinitely.

Agree with both the above posts 100%. That is why it is an individual decision.

Huge congratulations, not an easy thing to do. Moreover, not everyone can do it. A good example, put me in a room with lots of yummy homemade food and I loose the rigid self control that otherwise dominates my existence. Thankfully I am rarely in a room with lots of homemade yummy food, so I'm OK.

I have the same problem but I also have mad skillz creating homemade yummy food. When I get on a roll, there's no stopping me. I have been known to bake a sour cherry pie every day for an entire summer, in the act of perfecting the sour cherry pie recipe. BTW I did perfect it and now make the best sour cherry pie in the world. No brag just fact.

My problem is carb addiction, and when I say the word "addiction" I mean it in every way. I behave toward carbs the way heroin addicts behave toward heroin. Escalate use, overdose, cravings, withdrawal symptoms, spending way too much money on them (fancy cookies from NYC), hiding my eating from others, hiding the amount of money I spend on treats, continuing the behavior despite negative consequences, developing an elaborate ritual revolving around eating my sweets.

I have been known to buy sweets from the bakery section, go to an empty parking lot, eat them, discard the packaging and the receipt (evidence) in the trash, and then drive home where I pretend that the healthy dinner is the only thing I've had since lunch.

The only reason I'm not fatter than I am (a mere 30 lbs overweight) is excellent genes from my parents, there is zero obesity in my family, I'm the most overweight one of them all. I have avoided diabetes by the skin of my teeth, and I have a very good cholesterol profile.

Probably also, I don't drink the liquid carbs, no soda or juice, and I pretty much refuse to eat low quality sweets or unhealthy sweets (hence the expense) unless I get on a really bad binge. Ideally, my treats are gluten free, free of trans fats or HSCS. John Kelly for example. My pie recipe uses fresh leaf lard, not Crisco.

The only thing that stops me from binging on carbs is testing my blood sugar. So far I have managed to stay in the PRE-diabetic range. If I test and find a certain snack has my BS higher than 140 at one hour, it acts like a wakeup call and I never eat that thing in that amount again. The only flaw in this is that I have the ability to put myself in denial and not test my blood sugar.

I have been able to lose weight both being vegetarian/low fat, and being Atkins/low carb. I prefer low carb because on the former I was always hungry and all those veggies gives me painful gas. Atkins/low carb/keto/paleo is the way to go for me. But like heroin addiction, I do well and then "relapse". I tend to relapse in times of high stress. It is a lifelong condition and I will always be "in recovery".

There is a reason heroin addicts are told to dump their addict friends and even move away if necessary to avoid the locations and people and triggers for their addiction. The trouble with food addictions is you cannot do that, the best you can do is keep it out of your own house.

If I were 100 or 200 pounds overweight there would be a strong argument for me to have bariatric surgery because of my relationship with carbs. But at my level and because I have found the tool that does work for me, surgery is not right for me. The solution for me is to work with a professional to hold me accountable (a nutritionist) and to require myself to consistently test blood sugar every day.
 
I just thought it was good she has nice pair of jordache genes....;)

You mean that I can eat like that and still not get way too obese? It doesn't mean I'm out of the woods, my dad got type II diabetes and was never overweight at all. :(
 
You mean that I can eat like that and still not get way too obese? It doesn't mean I'm out of the woods, my dad got type II diabetes and was never overweight at all. :(
no, not out of the woods....something will eventually kill you. :D
 
According to the online charts I need to lose 110 lbs. Online calculator has my BMI at 42.3. I would be happy with a 70 lb loss.

I am a type II diabetic controlled by oral medication. BP and cholesterol controlled by medication as well. I have OSA controlled by CPAP machine.

That'll take more than just to skip dessert.

I don't live a sedentary life style. I have a house on 44 acres with a pond that keeps me very busy outside. I'm not sitting around eating bonbons, I don't really like sweets. My bad carbs come from pasta, bread, pizza, etc.

Pasta, Pizza and breakfast cereals used to be major components of my diet. Unfortunately, I pretty much have to treat them like poison these days. On the upside, the girls at Paneras can punch in my salad order before I even open my mouth.

Like I said I'm just beginning the research and will probably go Keto again to see what happens. And before someone mentions it I know I shouldn't set myself up for failure by thinking that I will fall off the bandwagon again but I never enter in to such an endeavor thinking pessimistically. I am truly an optimist.

As mentioned a couple of times, the surgery will to some extent force you to change your dietary habits. You can get a head-start by changing the diet before you go for surgery. If your weight trajectory after changing the diet is not sufficient to get you to a healthy weight in a few years, you still have the option to go under the knife.

Good luck with whatever path you opt for. The first step is to realize that you are not 'just big boned' but that you need to change something.
 
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