Banned from Beechtalk for no good reason

skynewbie said:
So it came to a head today. I learned that Beechtalk forum is infested by greedy sales con artists called brokers who jack up the price of aircraft by 20-30%. I called them on this bluff and was banned as a result. A lot of cranky pilots on that forum even though there are some good Beech pilots there as well. Here is what the admin tells me today:
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retailguy said:
Not exactly. BT is fine, I don't believe they miss you at all. It appears you're still in denial though...
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Pretty close - but actually Ben has classic Ideas of Reference:

Ideas of reference and delusions of reference describe the phenomenon of an individual's experiencing innocuous events or mere coincidences[1] and believing they have strong personal significance.[2] It is "the notion that everything one perceives in the world relates to one's own destiny."[3]

In all the various discussion boards that I've stumbled across Ben, it's all very consistent. Someone could do a Master's Degree Thesis in Psychology from all these manifestations of Ben.

....and just to counter his next threat of suing me for defamation of character, libel, slander, or whatever - this is simply my personal opinion and is not the opinion of a clinical psychologist/psychiatrist, the other members of this forum, it's moderators or sponsors. I could, of course, be entirely mistaken.
 
What can I say? I'm astounded at the stupidity and lack of professionalism? Seriously guys you really need to take a chill pill and get a life. Assumptions make an a of u and me. Then again why argue with idiots? I have ABS they answer my questions and are very professional about it. Then again you get what you pay for ! BT is free until they ban you so one wonders. I've better things to do than argue with folks who are legends in their own minds!
 
I joined ABS before I was banned from BT when looking at Bonanzas. Definitely well worth the money even if I don't buy one the education is priceless.
 
ABS is a fine organization. I could not imagine owning and maintaining a Bonanza without their assistance and advocacy.
 
skynewbie said:
What can I say? I'm astounded at the stupidity and lack of professionalism? Seriously guys you really need to take a chill pill and get a life. Assumptions make an a of u and me. Then again why argue with idiots? I have ABS they answer my questions and are very professional about it. Then again you get what you pay for ! BT is free until they ban you so one wonders. I've better things to do than argue with folks who are legends in their own minds!
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Ben, I'm also amazed at the stupidity and lack of professionalism. That's what I meant by my last post. It's perspective. I have the exact same view of you that you have of me...

BTW, ABS is a fine organization. I would guess that when you pay money, folks are a bit more tolerant than when you don't. If you had invested in BT by buying a membership and running an ad, you probably would not have been banned. They'd have probably pulled you aside and counseled you first. My guess is, at some point, ABS will do the same.

Sincerely, I hope you buy a plane soon.
 
retailguy said:
Ben, I'm also amazed at the stupidity and lack of professionalism. That's what I meant by my last post. It's perspective. I have the exact same view of you that you have of me...

BTW, ABS is a fine organization. I would guess that when you pay money, folks are a bit more tolerant than when you don't. If you had invested in BT by buying a membership and running an ad, you probably would not have been banned. They'd have probably pulled you aside and counseled you first. My guess is, at some point, ABS will do the same.

Sincerely, I hope you buy a plane soon.
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Na...counseling is their weakness.

Cronyism, however, amonst the LOP crowd is their strength.:yesnod:
 
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SCCutler said:
ABS is a fine organization. I could not imagine owning and maintaining a Bonanza without their assistance and advocacy.
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Here here! and on that note....time to "ignore" checkout_my_six's...or it is Skynewbie posts. Should have known he was a dual personality :)
 
N53KL said:
Here here! and on that note....time to "ignore" checkout_my_six's...or it is Skynewbie posts. Should have known he was a dual personality :)
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He actually plagiarized the 'checkmysix' handle, dont confuse his posts under that handle with those of checkout_my_six who has been around for a long time.
 
weilke said:
He actually plagiarized the 'checkmysix' handle, dont confuse his posts under that handle with those of checkout_my_six who has been around for a long time.
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Thanks for the heads up, Weilke. What ever handle he uses, he is not worth reading ;)
 
I'm not ready to write off Ben just yet. Not that my situation was similar to his because I don't know him, but I started shopping for airplanes long before there was any way that I could ever actually have one. I even got myself on a hangar waiting list in 1985 and finally got one about 2008. I knew I'd need it one day. Others probably thought me to be a dreamer and full of crap. But I signed up just the same.

In order to afford lessons at the time we had a friends Golden Retriever knock up ours up and we sold the puppies. It paid for my private outright at a time when our kids were young and our mortgage was killing us each month.

I remember a blue and white Grumman Tiger for sale at Palo Alto back then for $24,000 and i wanted it so badly that I'd have given years off of my life if it could have just somehow been mine. Even though we just couldn't do it I kept going back to see that broker and stare at that beautiful airplane. Yes, I was wasting his time but the pull to do so was intense.

A couple of years later a family friend died and his injected 250 Comanche
was being sold by his widow for only $17,000 because she couldnt find the logs. At the time a similar plane would have been in the $30K range if memory serves me right. It had a new engine and prop, new paint, and new interior. The radios were poor, but it was a real beauty of a plane. Again, I had to admit it wasn't my time. I later met the man who bought the plane and the logs were in behind the baggage bulkhead panel in a pouch or something like that. Anyway, he ended up with all of them. (sigh)

Then a third deal came along locally that had me physically sick when we couldn't afford to buy it. It was a gorgeous Debonair that was being sold by a angry spouse after a divorce and her getting the husbands plane. She was asking $22,000 for it and it was nice. I tried to make my wife see that we could store it until we could afford to actually own it, but no way we could come up with a scenario that made it make sense.

Then there was a plane that I actually made a full price offer on and shook hands with the seller in agreement. This one we had the cash to buy it outright. It was a 66' 180 Cherokee with a 200 hour engine, poor interior and bad paint, but generally good mechanically. He only wanted $12,000 for it in the mid to late 80's. We were going to complete the transaction after a trip he needed to take in it to visit his mother who was dying. Between the time he left and came back I came down with some flu type bug that had me in bed for at least two weeks, maybe two and a half. Unable to get out of bed, this guy didn't wait around for me. He sold it to another kid who he had promised it to if I didn't come through. Here's the rub... I did GA avionics at the time and this guy brought me the plane to work on. I was sick over it.

Then there was one last plane that I guess I was just not supposed to have. It belonged to one of our customers and I had struck a deal to purchase it from him because he wanted a Mooney as badly as I wanted his plane. The plane was a 68 Piper Arrow 200 and it had a run out engine, but he was going to do the engine and fly it until he found the right Mooney. We had a little equity in our house to tap into, but it wasn't to be. On a Thursday the two of us had agreed on a flight on that following Saturday to get me on the hook and to get me going on a checkout more or less. He was a CFI as well as a Naval Aviator. On Friday he changed his vacuum pump while out in the rain behind our shop by himself, (not an A&P) and then Saturday he didn't call me for the ride. My boss who was there when we set this up for Saturday called around noon on Saturday and actually started crying when he heard my voice on the other end of the phone. Chris was the Arrow owners name had crashed into a house just off of the departure end at Reid Hillview. He had chosen to take his girlfriend and another couple to lunch at Harris Ranch instead of our planned flight. His 3 passengers perished in the fire, and he was terribly burned but survived. His oil had evacuated from around the vacuum pump because he didn't have the tool to tighten all of the bolts so he didn't bother it turns out. Returning to the airport after the severe oil leak became apparent he crashed during a go around after the engine totally gave up. (BTW, he sued Piper and Lyc and became a millionaire after this.)

It was another 7 years before we finally bought and it was a 1/4 share of a 71 Cherokee 180. From there I built and RV, and finally ended up with what I have now which is an old Bonanza that I love. It didn't come easy or when I was young and wanted it more intensely than I'm capable of mustering for anything at this age. Life isn't fair, but we gotta just press on. I'm betting on Ben. Been there, done that. He'll eventually buy.
 
brywd said:
On Friday he changed his vacuum pump while out in the rain behind our shop by himself, (not an A&P) and then Saturday he didn't call me for the ride. My boss who was there when we set this up for Saturday called around noon on Saturday and actually started crying when he heard my voice on the other end of the phone. Chris was the Arrow owners name had crashed into a house just off of the departure end at Reid Hillview. He had chosen to take his girlfriend and another couple to lunch at Harris Ranch instead of our planned flight. His 3 passengers perished in the fire, and he was terribly burned but survived. His oil had evacuated from around the vacuum pump because he didn't have the tool to tighten all of the bolts so he didn't bother it turns out. Returning to the airport after the severe oil leak became apparent he crashed during a go around after the engine totally gave up. (BTW, he sued Piper and Lyc and became a millionaire after this.)
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What a dick. I'm sorry he killed his friends, but there is no way he should have made himself a millionaire over his willful negligence.
 
After his judgement his brother came in to pay us for the ELT work performed in the days before his crash. His brother said that Chris felt vindicated by the judgement. We heard that the 20 year old run out lycoming had a porous cast on the inside of the case and that is what the payout was over even though it had nothing to do with the crash. BTW, he didn't make himself a millionaire the lawyers and some dopey jurors did. Pretty sickening.

Edit... I just went and looked at the NTSB Factual report on this crash. It said the source of the oil leak couldn't be determined due to the post crash fire."
 
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brywd said:
I'm not ready to write off Ben just yet. Not that my situation was similar to his because I don't know him, but I started shopping for airplanes long before there was any way that I could ever actually have one. I even got myself on a hangar waiting list in 1985 and finally got one about 2008. I knew I'd need it one day. Others probably thought me to be a dreamer and full of crap. But I signed up just the same.

In order to afford lessons at the time we had a friends Golden Retriever knock up ours up and we sold the puppies. It paid for my private outright at a time when our kids were young and our mortgage was killing us each month.

I remember a blue and white Grumman Tiger for sale at Palo Alto back then for $24,000 and i wanted it so badly that I'd have given years off of my life if it could have just somehow been mine. Even though we just couldn't do it I kept going back to see that broker and stare at that beautiful airplane. Yes, I was wasting his time but the pull to do so was intense.

A couple of years later a family friend died and his injected 250 Comanche
was being sold by his widow for only $17,000 because she couldnt find the logs. At the time a similar plane would have been in the $30K range if memory serves me right. It had a new engine and prop, new paint, and new interior. The radios were poor, but it was a real beauty of a plane. Again, I had to admit it wasn't my time. I later met the man who bought the plane and the logs were in behind the baggage bulkhead panel in a pouch or something like that. Anyway, he ended up with all of them. (sigh)

Then a third deal came along locally that had me physically sick when we couldn't afford to buy it. It was a gorgeous Debonair that was being sold by a angry spouse after a divorce and her getting the husbands plane. She was asking $22,000 for it and it was nice. I tried to make my wife see that we could store it until we could afford to actually own it, but no way we could come up with a scenario that made it make sense.

Then there was a plane that I actually made a full price offer on and shook hands with the seller in agreement. This one we had the cash to buy it outright. It was a 66' 180 Cherokee with a 200 hour engine, poor interior and bad paint, but generally good mechanically. He only wanted $12,000 for it in the mid to late 80's. We were going to complete the transaction after a trip he needed to take in it to visit his mother who was dying. Between the time he left and came back I came down with some flu type bug that had me in bed for at least two weeks, maybe two and a half. Unable to get out of bed, this guy didn't wait around for me. He sold it to another kid who he had promised it to if I didn't come through. Here's the rub... I did GA avionics at the time and this guy brought me the plane to work on. I was sick over it.

Then there was one last plane that I guess I was just not supposed to have. It belonged to one of our customers and I had struck a deal to purchase it from him because he wanted a Mooney as badly as I wanted his plane. The plane was a 68 Piper Arrow 200 and it had a run out engine, but he was going to do the engine and fly it until he found the right Mooney. We had a little equity in our house to tap into, but it wasn't to be. On a Thursday the two of us had agreed on a flight on that following Saturday to get me on the hook and to get me going on a checkout more or less. He was a CFI as well as a Naval Aviator. On Friday he changed his vacuum pump while out in the rain behind our shop by himself, (not an A&P) and then Saturday he didn't call me for the ride. My boss who was there when we set this up for Saturday called around noon on Saturday and actually started crying when he heard my voice on the other end of the phone. Chris was the Arrow owners name had crashed into a house just off of the departure end at Reid Hillview. He had chosen to take his girlfriend and another couple to lunch at Harris Ranch instead of our planned flight. His 3 passengers perished in the fire, and he was terribly burned but survived. His oil had evacuated from around the vacuum pump because he didn't have the tool to tighten all of the bolts so he didn't bother it turns out. Returning to the airport after the severe oil leak became apparent he crashed during a go around after the engine totally gave up. (BTW, he sued Piper and Lyc and became a millionaire after this.)

It was another 7 years before we finally bought and it was a 1/4 share of a 71 Cherokee 180. From there I built and RV, and finally ended up with what I have now which is an old Bonanza that I love. It didn't come easy or when I was young and wanted it more intensely than I'm capable of mustering for anything at this age. Life isn't fair, but we gotta just press on. I'm betting on Ben. Been there, done that. He'll eventually buy.
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Here's the difference between your story and Ben's story, at least for me. Not once in what I read above did you insult anyone, did you say that what someone did for a living wasn't of value, did you insinuate that a seller "fleeced" a buyer, or accuse someone of poor judgement for banning you from a website because you were incapable of getting along with others whom you disagreed with, whether they were right or wrong.

Will Ben buy a plane? I hope so. Is he comparable to you? Nope.
 
Maybe he should buy a project plane. It can be the make and model he wants that needs a little TLC. This way he can get the cheap purchase price he wants, be an owner and have something to call his own.
 
BG305 said:
Maybe he should buy a project plane. It can be the make and model he wants that needs a little TLC. This way he can get the cheap purchase price he wants, be an owner and have something to call his own.
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yeah, airplanes are cheap by that standard. Maybe get 2. Here's a pair of airplanes that are reasonably priced:
 

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Interesting thread. BT has 22,000 members and has people there with more Beechcraft specific knowledge in one finger than most people gain in their lifetime.

I was banned for roughly 6 months due to someone like "Ben" commenting on my ad and calling me a liar and a cheat. The owner's of BT banned me and then asked me back after things cooled down. I had no problem with it.

If you think someone earning a living is "greedy" then by all means just simply walk away. With that said, what is a 20-30% markup? There is NO established market on airplanes right now unless you are talking about vanilla wrapper Cirrus products.

I have sold every plane I have owned from that site along with avionics, a $7000 tug, guns, and much more. Most of the people are stand up guys and the brokers I know are well above board. If you don't like the price of something simply don't reply. Bashing someone in a public forum because you don't like a price is pretty lame.
 
yeah.....I don't think I need to go there and be with a bunch of up tight APS guys.:yeahthat:


I've knocked the dust off my shoes......& moved on....:rolleyes:
 
I'm not an APS guy. Not a member and never been to one of their functions. BTW, what airplane do you own?
 
the same one you do.....:D
 

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toddsanderson said:
... Most of the people are stand up guys and the brokers I know are well above board. If you don't like the price of something simply don't reply. Bashing someone in a public forum because you don't like a price is pretty lame.
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+1,000.

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What is "APS"? Is this referencing Advanced Pilot Seminars?
 
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