SixPapaCharlie
May the force be with you
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Sixer
I think its the "dont feed the troll" hand giving a troll food.
Banned from Beechtalk for no good reason
- Thread starter skynewbie
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Snorting his way across the USA
I wonder if you can buy a Landing Calculator in the Beechtalk FS forums?
poadeleted21
Touchdown! Greaser!
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I've been thrown out of better forums.
rbridges
En-Route
I often report people to moderators when they disagree with my posts or hurt my feelings.
MAKG1
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MAKG
Actually, Ben, you've posted quite a lot of details about your life over the last couple of years. I really doubt it's everything, or even close to it, but it's far above "nothing."
This isn't the first time I've heard you complain about getting ripped off. While I haven't tried to buy a Beech or a Mooney, I have tried to do quite a few of the other things you have -- including flight training, cross-country rentals from the same outfits, even a check ride from the same examiner, etc. I just don't see the dishonesty you've claimed in all of them. One or two might be just bad luck (or maybe good luck on my part), but it's nearly everything.
You need to take a deep breath, calm down, and try to figure out what's really going on. That a broker might be trying to make a buck is not surprising -- we all have to make a living, so treat it with a wheelbarrow of salt and move on. You're a DB guy -- try to imagine what it would be like if you had to write a database, and THEN haggle with the customer over how much you were going to be paid. A low-ball comes directly out of your pocket. Fortunately, those of us on the tech side don't see that much, but the sales guys sometimes do.
That an "enthusiast" website might get defensive about their brand is also nearly universal. Wanna get a bunch of southern rednecks all ****ed off? Log onto a Ford enthusiast site and say how much the F-150 you looked at last week sucked. Even if it was on cinder blocks and was surrounded by a giant coolant puddle.
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I've been there. Try going over to the Vans RV forum and say something about the weak nose gear which has failed in numerous cases resulting in flipover.
asgcpa
En-Route
iflyvfr
Pattern Altitude
AggieMike88
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The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
PaulS
Touchdown! Greaser!
Notice my avatar. It's not something I picked today, but picked some months ago due to the anonymous nature of POA and the trolling it promotes. Now it's obvious who the OP is so feeding the troll is not helping.
I have to say, Mike Brannigan gave one of the most insightful analysis of the Beech Talk board I've ever seen. For my mission I needed a 6 seat light twin that would fit in a 40 foot T hanger. When I was looking they were trying to convince me a new twin pilot departing a 2500 foot field in a Baron 58 was SOP. Thankfully caution prevailed for me and I quickly realized it was about the Marquee over there. And nothing wrong with that... these guys bent over backwards for me and I had plenty of rides offered... none of which I accepted. And all that said... I do see a Beech in my future someday and I wish that 40 foot T hanger was 50 foot so I could have gotten a twin beech... now that's on the bucket list for sure
But I digress. BT came to the realization that fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me, actually had some basis in fact. If he can't be banned (which I suspect is impossible here) I simply wouldn't feed his delusion of ownership.
Jeff, I can't figure out what the heck your avatar is.... It looks like a guy, in a hat, with a sword in a scabbard, holding a pike pole, with a cooked chicken on it. Am I close?
timwinters
Ejection Handle Pulled
http://blog.legalzoom.com/legal-news/house-passes-anti-troll-legislation/
That's a hand with a turkey (or chicken I guess) on a plate...
iflyvfr
Pattern Altitude
I bought my first one at 21. How old do you think you have to be?
Yep! I'd rather own a Cessna 150 and fly all over tarnation than sit on the sidelines and dream of doing so.
The thought of not having something to fly is...unthinkable!
JHW
En-Route
amen, bought a 65hp ercoupe as a college student. Parked it under the wingtip of the boss's king air. It was a pos but it was mine and I loved it
rbridges
En-Route
BG305
Pre-takeoff checklist
OP, if you don't like/want to use brokers why don't you just look for something you like at the price you want and buy it? I didn't use a broker to buy my first plane and I'm not using one right now in the purchase of my second. Instead I found the right A&P for the pre buy and went foward.
Richard
Final Approach
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Ack...city life
The Mooney guys at Chino airshow wanted to run a credit check. All I did was look at the bird. When I mentioned I am interested but won't be buying new I at least got a bottle of water.
Richard
Final Approach
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Ack...city life
Have you tried Cherokee or Comanche talk? Oh, I'm sure you'd receive the same.
Have you tried Cherokee or Comanche talk? Oh, I'm sure you'd receive the same.
He managed to get the folks at the socata forum all worked up. It is a great mystery how this happens.
poadeleted21
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Ben, go buy a plane. Purchase cost is what it is. It's also a borderline rounding error in an aviation budget. Let's say I overpaid $5,000 for my Bonanza (Which I spent $5,000 more than I wanted to). But, I had been looking for the better part of the year (and this isn't cheap and is time consuming) a good one popped up and I pounced. My operating costs are around $15,000 per year. Overpaying $5,000 over the course of owenership is a rounding error. It's worth that to get the one you want.
Jeff K
Pre-takeoff checklist
Yeap.
Other then Ben is Ben, I think Ben also is the poster child taken to the extreme of why you don't want to "buy your last plane first" as some advocate. That bar tends to promote excessive analysis which in Ben's case has paralyzed him.
Ben's best course of action would be to buy a low end 152/172 or Cherokee 140/180... some kind of entry level plane. Fly it and be an owner. The experience of ownership itself is a learning experience and you don't need to complicate it. Deciding that, his next course of action would be to find a buyers broker and give him the checkbook or at least arrange a commission function that would pay the buyer's broker if Ben back's out unreasonably (which I normally wouldn't advocate). 20-$30K is all it's going to take here... which supposedly he has.
Get a plane, go fly and learn about ownership. All that is possible at the entry level and when you want to buy that complex retractable you're a much better educated consumer. And in today's (still depressed market) you should be able to get your money out of the plane, less any sales tax, once you go to sell. Indeed... cyclically speaking he might make some money.
tmyers
En-Route
I think that is pretty good advice. Get the least expensive craft you can knowing you are either going to be bitten in a major way by the flying bug or find out it just isn't for you. Either way the first craft should be considered a very short term affair. Keep it through at lease one annual to get the full monty.
asgcpa
En-Route
Not to defend (ok I am) but knowing Ben, he's already bitten. He wants to get IR, and has his complex and HP endorsements. He is using flying for XC work.
If it were me, and I had funds, I would go the route he is going by finding a complex XC craft that meets his mission. However, it seems that you can;t negotiate down to the penny. In talking on the phone he realizes that. He is willing to make a fair offer, but doesn't want to overpay in a major way. Like it was noted, $5K is rounding over the course of a plane. However, knowing what he offered on a plane and what the broker was asking, it was too far away for that plane. I admire him for not giving in to emotion like so many of us do.
Kristin
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Kristin (The Aviatrix)
Regardless of all of my noise -- You should get a Piper Comanche. Seriously. It's a good personality match with most of those guys. I still remember going to the ICS Comanche Fly-in where dozens of owners were kvetching about the stabilator horn crack AD -- and were incensed at the cost of a few hundred bucks to discover if their stabilator was going to flutter off of the airplane and cause their violent death. Hilarious. Join em, you can ***** with and at them for hours, and they all believe their plane is as good as a Bonanza for half of the price. They're pretty close to right about that, too. (...but check your stabilator horn, put on the new style one, fly with confidence, hate on Bonanzas. Lather, Kvetch, Repeat.)
We were planning a Comanche link up at Oshkosh a number of years ago. We figured the best way to find the Comanche owners was to epoxy a nickel to the floor somewhere. Then we realized that we could have to come up with a way to separate the Mooney owners from the Comanche owners.
Pretty good thumbnail sketch of Beechtalk.
rbridges
En-Route
We were planning a Comanche link up at Oshkosh a number of years ago. We figured the best way to find the Comanche owners was to epoxy a nickel to the floor somewhere. Then we realized that we could have to come up with a way to separate the Mooney owners from the Comanche owners.
mooney owners tend to be thinner.
Kristin
Pattern Altitude
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Kristin (The Aviatrix)
Ahh! So this is benpilot. I tagged benpilot for being about fourteen years old which would explain why he hasn't bought a plane. He was running the same schtick on the Piper forum as well.
tmyers
En-Route
That's funny and probably why I don't have a Mooney, and to think I was blaming the airplane all these years LOL
Jeff K
Pre-takeoff checklist
Ben has been looking for more then 2 years... wondering from aircraft type to aircraft type. At various times I've seen interest in Cirrus, Mooney, Lance, Bonanaza, Soccota, 182 etc. He first introduced himself on the red board 2+ years ago as having a budget of $200,000 and wanting to put that plane into airport home withing flying distance of the bay area. I've seen him on the piper boards, mooney boards, bonanza boards, here and I'm sure a few other places I missed.
I don't think negotiating is the issue.... it's executing.
skynewbie
Pre-takeoff checklist
Actually I've been looking for less than a year. I'm tired of renting because every time I want to go fly on a nice weekend the good fast planes are always booked! Yeah if I had a Bonanza and Socata available to rent every weekend that would be cheaper and less work than ownership.
AggieMike88
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The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
Saw a nice Debonaire on Controller yesterday.
Know of a very nice 1987 Mooney 205 that is likely to come onto the market soon.
poadeleted21
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Go get a Bonanza. It's one of the most produced Single Engine Aircraft in all of history. Shouldn't be hard to find one.
Here's the fastest one they make, decent avionics, Mid time engine. Priced appropriatley.
If I were shopping for a Bo, I'd call on this one.
1964 BONANZA S35 • $69,500 • OFFERED FOR SALE OR TRADE • 3601 TTA 871 SMOH Eng & 3 Bl Prop G430 GPS GTX-327 XPDR GMA 340 Aud Pnl STEC-50 6 Seat Fresh Annual! • Contact Ed Watson, Owner - located Lock Haven, PA USA • Telephone: 800-224-7511 . 570-971-7545 . 570-745-2290 • Fax: 570-748-5123 • Posted July 31, 2014 • Show all Ads posted by this Advertiser • Recommend This Ad to a Friend • Email Advertiser • Save to Watchlist • Report This Ad
MAKG1
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MAKG
You're looking in the wrong place, then.
I've managed to get a 182P or Q on no notice three of the last four weekends -- and the fourth didn't happen because I was out of town. No, not the CAP ones (those are R and T and are a PITA to schedule). This weekend, the 182Q is out the whole time, but its companion 172M is available throughout. Works for me. Back at Palo Alto, there are four 172s, both 182s, the 172RG, and two PA28s available this weekend. Curiously, the Cardinal is booked…that's unusual.
I don't generally have trouble with scheduling, unless I want to fly a 152. Those are sometimes booked WAY out for lessons. But 34M is free at Palo Alto Saturday, all weekend.
Nothing you fly is all that fast. There isn't that much difference in elapsed time between 105 KIAS and 125, until the distances get huge. 90 kinda sucks, but it depends where you're going.
Every time I go out to Reid, the parking lot is full of rental planes. While I haven't rented from any of the FBOs there yet, I have been out looking, and seeing a couple of well equipped 182Qs on the line, as well as nearly a dozen rental 172s spread around the field. On a random nice weekend. The only thing that keeps me from renting there is the 60 minute drive from work due to the terrible traffic.
Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems to me that it "has" to be a Bo or a Mooney. Why? Isn't the point to fly somewhere? Unless it's somewhere extraordinary, a 172 or Warrior will get you there just fine. Before you say "high DA," check out the 172M for rent at KFLG.
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![brian]](/community/data/avatars/m/21/21096.jpg?1456258959){kind=avatar}
brian]
Cleared for Takeoff
It's kind of funny, but if you look on BeechTalk, Ben has 2 of the top 10 "Best of BT" threads. Judging on what is in this thread, Ben has successfully become the most well known aviators on the internet I'm sure his threads have the highest click count on all of these sites. This is what Internet news sites pay millions of dollars a year to make happen!
One of the traditional aircraft manufacturers needs to hire Ben to do some advertising!!
(Say, I write this in jest, but it is starting to sound like a solid marketing plan ...)
I do get where you are at Ben - talked myself in and out of an aircraft to the point I almost gave up flying entirely. All I can suggest is start putting money aside. Once you have $20K or so in cash - go buy something basic (e.g. a Piper 140). With what you know from reading, if you happen to find something "more cool" along the way, go for it. I'm still a new owner myself, and I can report that the process is really easy - but the numbers can make you cry if you are not prepared...
I'm sure his threads have the highest click count on all of these sites. This is what Internet news sites pay millions of dollars a year to make happen!One of the traditional aircraft manufacturers needs to hire Ben to do some advertising!!
(Say, I write this in jest, but it is starting to sound like a solid marketing plan ...)
I do get where you are at Ben - talked myself in and out of an aircraft to the point I almost gave up flying entirely. All I can suggest is start putting money aside. Once you have $20K or so in cash - go buy something basic (e.g. a Piper 140). With what you know from reading, if you happen to find something "more cool" along the way, go for it. I'm still a new owner myself, and I can report that the process is really easy - but the numbers can make you cry if you are not prepared...
docmirror
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Cowboy - yeehah!
Jeez, gotta be something wrong there. S35 with a G430 and coupled STEC-50 for that price? I almost want to call to see if this is some kind of scam. That's a ton of plane for the price, and I have NO affiliation.
timwinters
Ejection Handle Pulled
All I can say is:
"Life is like a penis..."
(And those of you who know me know the rest!)
"Life is like a penis..."
(And those of you who know me know the rest!)