Bad Reiff heater?

[azure]

So it is cold here in Vermont, about 19F today with a stiff steady wind out of the north. I asked the FBO owner to plug in my Reiff heater last night in preparation for a flight this morning. It was plugged in all night but was out on the ramp by 0730 this morning, and I ended up not getting to the plane until about 1300. I found it still plugged in on the ramp, but with the front of the plane facing into the wind, with a wool sleeping bag draped loosely over the cowl and flapping around like crazy in the wind. I felt the cowl right under the sleeping bag and it was cool, though not cold, to the touch and putting my hand inside the oil door found that it was warmish, but not really warm. Turned on the master to read the JPI, and it said the oil temp was 54F. CHTs were in the 30s. As a result, I stayed on the ground; that's a little too cool for engine start in my book.

So my question is, does it make sense that that cool temperature was from being out in the cold wind for 6 hours after a night of good pre-heating? Or should I be looking at diagnosing and replacing a bad heater element?

 

[frfly172]

Not sure the reiff can keep up with the wind and low temp.

 

[Clark1961]

Enough wind to move a sleeping bag sounds like enough wind to cool the engine. How many watts is the Reiff? I use cowl plugs with the ez-heat or it won’t even get the oil temp off the peg.

 

[Stewartb]

Continental says 20*, Lycoming says 10*. You had 54* oil and 30* cylinders. There was no problem with starting it as it was. Honestly? I'd have started my plane in that temp with no preheat.

Air cooled engines are very good at radiating heat away if given moving air. Your story sounds like airflow was robbing your preheat.

 

[azure]

Enough wind to move a sleeping bag sounds like enough wind to cool the engine. How many watts is the Reiff? I use cowl plugs with the ez-heat or it won’t even get the oil temp off the peg.

I'm actually not sure. I have documentation for pretty much all the add-ons in the plane, but not the Reiff. I should say the cowl plugs were also in, but my thinking was that a lot of heat was escaping out the oil hatch as well since it was open (of course), and not covered by the sleeping bag. Plus, as @Stewartb points out, engines like ours are designed to cool themselves quickly in moving air, though the cowl plugs should have helped to slow that down.

Next time I'm going to ask the FBO to leave the plane in the hangar until I get there. In fact, in cold wind like we had today I would much rather preflight inside the hangar.

 

[azure]

Continental says 20*, Lycoming says 10*. You had 54* oil and 30* cylinders. There was no problem with starting it as it was. Honestly? I'd have started my plane in that temp with no preheat.

Maybe. I agree it wasn't terribly cold, but I'd like at least 60F oil and cylinders close to that. When in doubt I'd rather err on the side of caution.

 

[wsuffa]

Not sure the reiff can keep up with the wind and low temp.

This.

Get a set of cowl plugs, too. It'll keep the wind out of the cowl a bit. I had winterization plates for my plane - they installed (screws) on the engine cooling outlets. Never tried them because temps were warm where I was to not need them.

 

[bnt83]

Maybe. I agree it wasn't terribly cold, but I'd like at least 60F oil and cylinders close to that. When in doubt I'd rather err on the side of caution.

Take a look and see where the cylinder heater bands are vs the cylinder head temp probes, you're kidding yourself if you believe they will heat the entire cylinder mass 50+ degrees. Cowl plugs should make a significant difference.

That being said, I would have cranked in and flew away, my 50 year old cylinders have never had Tannis or Reiff.

 

[kyleb]

The heater was doing fine. You needed a set of cowl plugs. Even a couple of towels stuffed into the intakes would work.

 

[bnt83]

An average hair dryer is 1800 watts, the expensive Reiff bands are 100 watts each, cheap ones are 50 watts each.

 

[azure]

This.

Get a set of cowl plugs, too. It'll keep the wind out of the cowl a bit. I had winterization plates for my plane - they installed (screws) on the engine cooling outlets. Never tried them because temps were warm where I was to not need them.

Strange that *three* people posted that I should get a set of cowl plugs AFTER I posted this:

I should say the cowl plugs were also in, but my thinking was that a lot of heat was escaping out the oil hatch as well since it was open (of course), and not covered by the sleeping bag. Plus, as @Stewartb points out, engines like ours are designed to cool themselves quickly in moving air, though the cowl plugs should have helped to slow that down.

 

[azure]

An average hair dryer is 1800 watts, the expensive Reiff bands are 100 watts each, cheap ones are 50 watts each.

View attachment 59754

So what were the test conditions? Was this in a hangar or out in the open?

With the plane in a hangar, with cowl plugs in and a wool sleeping bag *tightly* wrapped over the cowl, I've seen CHT readings of 90* or more after several hours of preheating, and oil temps over 120*, even with OAT colder than it was today.

 

[Stewartb]

Lots of opinions. I've had several Reiff systems and the Turbo XP is the best by far. In a couple of hours in mid-teens OAT my cylinder temps are near 70* and the oil is closer to 90*. I do use a well fitted insulating engine cover. Anyone who thinks Reiff bands don't heat the entire cylinder hasn't used a properly sized Reiff system.

 

[NoHeat]

Strange that *three* people posted that I should get a set of cowl plugs AFTER I posted this:

That was in your second post. Lots of people post after reading only the first post in a thread, as a rule. In fact, many post after reading only a thread’s title.

 

[azure]

That was in your second post. Lots of people post after reading only the first post in a thread, as a rule. In fact, many post after reading only a thread’s title.

Ha! I resemble that remark!

 

[azure]

Lots of opinions. I've had several Reiff systems and the Turbo XP is the best by far. In a couple of hours in mid-teens OAT my cylinder temps are near 70* and the oil is closer to 90*. I do use a well fitted insulating engine cover. Anyone who thinks Reiff bands don't heat the entire cylinder hasn't used a properly sized Reiff system.

Yes, based on the chart @bnt83 posted and the temps I've seen, I suspect the Turbo XP is the one I have. I'm just not sure if the ambient conditions could have caused what I observed, or if the system isn't working properly.

As I said, the best test will probably be to try a preheat and then check the CHT and oil temps before pulling the plane out of the hangar. The FBO likes to pull planes out first thing in the morning, but I'm going to insist. It's a community hangar, so I'm sort of at their mercy, but under the circumstances I think they'll cooperate.

 

[NoHeat]

If you have a multimeter, it’s easy to check the resistance across the two pins on the 110VAC power plug. It should be around 14 ohms for a 1000 W total heater, or 28 ohms for 500 W.

If you have a resistance that’s much higher, that would indicate a broken wire or two.

I recently had zero ohms when my Tanis heater failed. It was a short, obviously, and it turned out to be in the power plug, which was easy to replace.

 

[azure]

If you have a multimeter, it’s easy to check the resistance across the two pins on the 110VAC power plug. It should be around 14 ohms for a 1000 W total heater, or 28 ohms for 500 W.

If you have a resistance that’s much higher, that would indicate a broken wire or two.

I recently had zero ohms when my Tanis heater failed. It was a short, obviously, and it turned out to be in the power plug, which was easy to replace.

Thanks for the info! That should be easy... unfortunately, my Fluke seems to have flown the coop, but I'm sure I can borrow one from work.

Of course, the question is, which system do I have? I assume I have 100W per cylinder, but how much does the oilpan heater draw? Are there any other heater elements I'm not aware of?

 

[Clark1961]

Thanks for the info! That should be easy... unfortunately, my Fluke seems to have flown the coop, but I'm sure I can borrow one from work.

Of course, the question is, which system do I have? I assume I have 100W per cylinder, but how much does the oilpan heater draw? Are there any other heater elements I'm not aware of?

Post 10 above indicates 200 watts for the oil pan heater.

As best I recall from when I was looking at heaters just the cylinders and oil pan are heated. Nobody seems to be heating batteries. You’d prolly notice a cabin heater...

 

[Stewartb]

It’s really easy to test your bands and sump pads. Plug them in for about 30seconds and touch them. You’ll know that they’re working.

 

[azure]

Post 10 above indicates 200 watts for the oil pan heater.

As best I recall from when I was looking at heaters just the cylinders and oil pan are heated. Nobody seems to be heating batteries. You’d prolly notice a cabin heater...

Ah, looking at it again I see that. Couldn't quite parse that line at first with the way it's wrapped.

Okay, for a 4-cylinder engine that makes 600 W total. So the resistance should be about 24 ohms for a 120 V power plug.

 

[azure]

It’s really easy to test your bands and sump pads. Plug them in for about 30seconds and touch them. You’ll know that they’re working.

But to access them I'd have to take off the cowl. No way am I struggling with that in this brutal cold.

 

[Stewartb]

One man’s brutal cold is another’s spring weather.

 

[WannFly]

I have turbo xp system. Inside hangar, with bruce cover (not the hangar blanket) with 10 hrs of preheat i get 140 * oil temp and about the same cylinder head temp read from JPI, when the ambient temp was -23F.
After one flight I stopped at the FBO, for 15 mins max, with cowl plugs on, no cowl cover, not facing into the wind on purpose, the oil temp was 95, cylinder heads were reading about 100.

I suspect blowing winds.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

[wsuffa]

Strange that *three* people posted that I should get a set of cowl plugs AFTER I posted this:

You expect people to read before pontificating?

 

[Jeff Cutler]

Reiff hasn't let me down yet, but admittedly always in a hanger with cowl plugs and blanket. 12 hours at 20 deg f or less, and oil and heads are all in the green (no JPI). Have the turbo xp. There are fuses built into the wiring. As Stewartb said, test by touch, then check the fuse if cold. Never had one fail yet in 10 winters of service.

 

[azure]

I may have a chance to test mine again tomorrow night. Last I saw, the forecast for Tuesday looked good for flying, so I'm hopeful. Might even be able to get my plane over to Middlebury for some much-needed avionics work, if the shop can fit me in - and if the Reiff works.

 

[azure]

Update: test conducted last night, proved this is a non-issue. When I got there at noon, the oil temp was 129 per the JPI. The only difference from last time was that the plane was still in the hangar (at my request), not outside in the cold wind; ambient temperature was even similar. (Okay, one more difference: the sleeping bag was wrapped around the prop and held with a clip, which probably helped as well.)

I even got to fly a little today, first time since November, though the owner's plane at Middlebury is still down so I wasn't able to get over there to leave my plane for the required work. Maybe Saturday.