Bad Fast Rope Demo

Velocity173

Velocity173

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Velocity173
Apparently the pilot decided it was easier to just land than fast rope the guys in. :(

 
Yes, very bad video. You never take video in portrait orientation. If you do start a video in portrait, you never ever switch to landscape while still filming.

Hopefully nobody was seriously injured.
 
Maybe they wanted to have wheelchair access??
 
What happened aerodynamically or controlling of the aircraft? I saw the high nose up pitch to cut the forward momentum. But what happened to prevent maintaining altitude?
 
I really wish phones didn’t allow vertical videos. Maybe if it was some option that required turning on a setting buried very deeply in the menu system it might be ok. Vertical videos are absolutely terrible, and I believe 99% of them are not genuinely intended by the user to be a vertical video. They’re just more used to holding the phone that way. Apple and android makers could easily fix this by just changing th software so that video defaults to landscape mode regardless of how the phone is held. The sensors have plenty of resolution to make this work.
 
What am I looking at here? Did the helicopter land without power? Why did the guys jump out?
What if the thing landed or roll right on top of them?
 
AggieMike88 said:
What happened aerodynamically or controlling of the aircraft? I saw the high nose up pitch to cut the forward momentum. But what happened to prevent maintaining altitude?
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Well when you flare that aggressive (quick stop), the rotor overspeeds and the engines disconnect from the xmsn through the freewheeling unit. The engine ECU/DEC schedule the fuel for an off loaded condition. Once the pilot pulls in a rapid collective to arrest the descent, the rotor decays rapidly, the slow spool up of the engines can’t meet the demand. The rotor drags the engines down, you get a low rotor rpm warning and the aircraft settles under its own power.

There are comments online that suggest vortex ring state (VRS) but I don’t see it. I see an aggressive maneuver in a heavy aircraft and the engines couldn’t meet the demand the pilot was placing on them.
 
topgun260 said:
Yes, very bad video. You never take video in portrait orientation. If you do start a video in portrait, you never ever switch to landscape while still filming...
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oh, is that what happened? I thought maybe his landing spot capsized due to the weight of the chopper. kinda like that congress critter who thunk that Guam would capsize if more troops were stationed there.
 
Velocity173 said:
Well when you flare that aggressive (quick stop), the rotor overspeeds and the engines disconnect from the xmsn through the freewheeling unit. The engine ECU/DEC schedule the fuel for an off loaded condition. Once the pilot pulls in a rapid collective to arrest the descent, the rotor decays rapidly, the slow spool up of the engines can’t meet the demand. The rotor drags the engines down, you get a low rotor rpm warning and the aircraft settles under its own power.

There are comments online that suggest vortex ring state (VRS) but I don’t see it. I see an aggressive maneuver in a heavy aircraft and the engines couldn’t meet the demand the pilot was placing on them.
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Can't tell from the video, but possible he came in downwind?
 
Mike I said:
Can't tell from the video, but possible he came in downwind?
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Definitely possible. I was going to say that as well. Could even be high density altitude making things even worse.
 
I would voluntarily turn in my wings if I were pilot in command of that Black Hawk.
 
topgun260 said:
Yes, very bad video. You never take video in portrait orientation. If you do start a video in portrait, you never ever switch to landscape while still filming.

Hopefully nobody was seriously injured.
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Some of the passengers appeared a little wobbly on exit.
 
You guys are judging the pilots awfully fast. Maybe they just needed two more shooters in this scenario...or the pilot really wanted to be 1 inch shorter.
 
@Velocity173 ... is that high pitch deceleration maneuver a common and frequently practiced one?
 
AggieMike88 said:
@Velocity173 ... is that high pitch deceleration maneuver a common and frequently practiced one?
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It’s practiced but not to that extreme. Like an air assault landing, they want to do that maneuver fast but not that fast. They’ve probably practiced it several times with no issues. All it takes is being a little more aggressive nose up, some more weight and DA and you’ve got an accident waiting to happen.

Just doing an auto in A model Black Hawk (2nd vid) you can droop the rotor pretty good. Aggressive decel (flare) with a rapid large collective pull at the bottom is all it takes. That’s in a light (14,500 lbs) one at that. Newer models have more powerful engines and better droop transient so it’s not an issue.

We do quick stops in our annual 135.293 rides but it’s IGE and no where near that much nose up. If I did that, I’d smack the stinger in the ground, scare the crap out of the examiner and get a bust for the ride.
 
AggieMike88 said:
@Velocity173 thanks for your insight into the rotary world. Very informative
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No prob. And to cut through the BS on what’s going on with the second vid, it’s just flat out hot dogging. Demo in front of the public probably had something to do with it.

That vid is straight out of the Army Aviation Safety Center at Ft Rucker. Can’t remember if it was classified as settling with power / vortex ring state or what I described above; settling with not enough power. Either way, while the aircraft is maneuverable and does have excess power, you still have to stay in a reasonable flight envelope.
 
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Both videos exceed the capabilities of the aircraft and or crews...sort of simple...Velocity173 detail analysis is spot on...both aircraft rotor and transmission systems are trashed between overtorque’s or sudden stoppages and hard landings...
 
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