Back in the saddle!

Henning said:
Are you meaning to imply that the clouds were 400' or 1400' above TPA?
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AWOS indicated they were 2400 AGL when we started. You know, I had to check that again -- I had forgotten that METAR gives the cloud cover in feet AGL, not MSL. So we had more cushion than I thought at first. It was dropping fast, though. When we finished the third trip around the pattern I would say we had scattered clouds at 1000 AGL.
 
DaleB said:
Unfortunately, lower clouds were blowing in. On the third pass, I was seeing little wispy clouds right at eye level about a quarter mile off.
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Ah, very good you recognized that. When you see that first little wispy low cloud develop, it looks like a harmless little guy, but often its a warning sign. When you see one, have your plan of action ready to get on the ground soon if need be - often those clouds multiply fast.
 
dell30rb said:
Ah, very good you recognized that. When you see that first little wispy low cloud develop, it looks like a harmless little guy, but often its a warning sign. When you see one, have your plan of action ready to get on the ground soon if need be - often those clouds multiply fast.
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Yeah, the temp/dewpoint spread today is 1C... so I was expecting we wouldn't be able to fly at all. I was glad we had enough time to get in three landings. It was supposed to clear up by now, but the cloud cover seems to be settling in. I'm on the schedule again every day through the 8th, except Sunday.
 
DaleB said:
AWOS indicated they were 2400 AGL when we started. You know, I had to check that again -- I had forgotten that METAR gives the cloud cover in feet AGL, not MSL. So we had more cushion than I thought at first. It was dropping fast, though. When we finished the third trip around the pattern I would say we had scattered clouds at 1000 AGL.
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;) That's an easy one to get messed up on because some clouds indicate in MSL and some AGL.
 
Henning said:
;) That's an easy one to get messed up on because some clouds indicate in MSL and some AGL.
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It's one of my biggest gripes, and something that I am pretty sure will bite me on the knowledge test. Weather reporting is completely inconsistent. Some stuff is AGL, some MSL. Some speeds MPH, some in knots. It wouldn't be a big deal if the units were noted on the map or in the report, but they're usually not. Just got to study and memorize more, I guess.
 
DaleB said:
It's one of my biggest gripes, and something that I am pretty sure will bite me on the knowledge test. Weather reporting is completely inconsistent. Some stuff is AGL, some MSL. Some speeds MPH, some in knots. It wouldn't be a big deal if the units were noted on the map or in the report, but they're usually not. Just got to study and memorize more, I guess.
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Most of the AGL/MSL stuff is pretty easy if you just stop to think, "Why do I need this information?" If I'm getting info from AWOS/ATIS it's so I can make determinations about the weather in relationship to that airport therefore it's going to AGL because all the governing rules are in AGL. However when I am looking at enroute type information it's so I can make decisions about cruise altitudes; cruise altitudes are in MSL so the info is in MSL.

As for MPH, I don't recall anything in MPH except airspeed on some old planes. The only people that ever refer to flying speeds in MPH are Mooney and RV drivers so it sounds like they're going fast.;)
 
Henning said:
Most of the AGL/MSL stuff is pretty easy if you just stop to think, "Why do I need this information?" If I'm getting info from AWOS/ATIS it's so I can make determinations about the weather in relationship to that airport therefore it's going to AGL because all the governing rules are in AGL. However when I am looking at enroute type information it's so I can make decisions about cruise altitudes; cruise altitudes are in MSL so the info is in MSL.

As for MPH, I don't recall anything in MPH except airspeed on some old planes. The only people that ever refer to flying speeds in MPH are Mooney and RV drivers so it sounds like they're going fast.;)
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That's helpful. I went and looked again -- it wasn't kt/MPH, it was magnetic/true N that varies depending on what you're looking at. METAR/TAF is magnetic, but the NOAA charts show direction of movement referenced to true north. That makes sense also, since mag variation would just confuse things in a national weather chart. I can't find wind speeds in MPH anywhere aviation related.
 
Henning said:
As for MPH, I don't recall anything in MPH except airspeed on some old planes. The only people that ever refer to flying speeds in MPH are Mooney and RV drivers so it sounds like they're going fast.;)
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Or Arrow drivers flying old Arrows. Our club's 1969 Arrow has an ASI in mph. Or Cessna drivers flying old Cessnas. Our C-182P has an ASI in mph on the main scale and an inner scale in knots. Our old C-172H (which we sold last summer) was mph, too.

I get your dig, but there are others (old planes). :D
 
Sigh... I have yet to fly an airplane with knots as the primary scale on the ASI. A couple have been marked in both, but MPH is the outer scale with the big numbers.
 
DaleB said:
Sigh... I have yet to fly an airplane with knots as the primary scale on the ASI. A couple have been marked in both, but MPH is the outer scale with the big numbers.
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Doesn't mean you can't fly them in knots.

My C-182P also has the double ring. Since I sometimes fly similar 182s that are only marked in knots, I use the inner ring in my aircraft. Call outs, V-speeds, etc... memorized or done in knots.

Converted all the Robertson STOL POH addendum information which is all in MPH into knots too.

MPH is just another unnecessary conversion when working with charts and modern computer calculation tools that expect knots. I ignore my outer scale.
 
DaleB said:
That's helpful. I went and looked again -- it wasn't kt/MPH, it was magnetic/true N that varies depending on what you're looking at. METAR/TAF is magnetic, but the NOAA charts show direction of movement referenced to true north. That makes sense also, since mag variation would just confuse things in a national weather chart. I can't find wind speeds in MPH anywhere aviation related.
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Right, because variation changes across the country,
 
denverpilot said:
Doesn't mean you can't fly them in knots.

My C-182P also has the double ring. Since I sometimes fly similar 182s that are only marked in knots, I use the inner ring in my aircraft. Call outs, V-speeds, etc... memorized or done in knots.

Converted all the Robertson STOL POH addendum information which is all in MPH into knots too.

MPH is just another unnecessary conversion when working with charts and modern computer calculation tools that expect knots. I ignore my outer scale.
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All true, but it would just needlessly confuse my 20 year old freshly minted CFI. Confusion equals more dual time, and more dual time means more rental charges. For now I just don't bother. Plus the MPH markings are easier for my tired old eyes to see with a quick glance at the panel.
 
It's just a number, though, whether it's knots or mph. You just need to know which number to use and be consistent. Most of the older airplanes I learned in and flew were in MPH with knots on the inner ring. I just looked at the outer ring.
 
Everskyward said:
It's just a number, though, whether it's knots or mph. You just need to know which number to use and be consistent. Most of the older airplanes I learned in and flew were in MPH with knots on the inner ring. I just looked at the outer ring.
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Same here. The Cherokee's outer ring is MPH and is much easier to see.
 
DaleB said:
It's one of my biggest gripes, and something that I am pretty sure will bite me on the knowledge test. Weather reporting is completely inconsistent. Some stuff is AGL, some MSL. Some speeds MPH, some in knots. It wouldn't be a big deal if the units were noted on the map or in the report, but they're usually not. Just got to study and memorize more, I guess.
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You will do fine on the test, because of my secret test passing guarantee.
 
Sigh...

I was supposed to solo this morning. I did the pre-solo written yesterday and had zero problems with it. We had a plane reserved at 9 this morning, and I got there a little early. It was not the one I've been flying regularly (42J), but another one I'd flown before (321). I had some trouble getting it to flare properly, and on about the third pass I realized that I know the reason why. This was the plane I flew a couple of weeks ago with a sticking yoke. The pilot side yoke binds for the last couple inches, so trying to get the elevator deflection you need in the flare... not happening, at least not smoothly. I'd get too little or the yoke would give all at once and we'd get a little too much flare. But I dealt with it.

In spite of this, I did pretty well. All of the landings were "OK", just not great except for a few of them. Even on the approach where we had to do about a 3 mile final due to an incoming Archer on a straight-in GPS approach, I was pretty high but still managed to get it in on speed and set it down smoothly. The only thing that made me a little unsure I'd be able to legally solo were the clouds - we were (what felt like) barely clear of them on crosswind and downwind, they were broken/scattered at about 1100AGL.

To add insult to injury, my regular ride (42J), which I had not reserved because someone else had it scheduled from 9 to 12, was sitting on the ramp the whole time. The guy never showed up. Instructor said he wasn't OK with me soloing in 321 since it had the yoke issue. I said, OK, fine. 42J is right there, 10 feet away -- let's preflight it and go. I'll fly another hour, no sweat. But he's got stuff to do for his graduation (sigh) so we'll have to try for Monday now. Says I'm definitely ready to solo. No, really?? My last CFI said that about 10 hours back. Since then it's been 2 hours of demonstrating for the new CFI the maneuvers and other stuff I know, and the rest has been touch and go hell.

OK, so it's a disappointment. I was fine with doing the solo flight in that airplane -- I'd already shown I could land it fairly well even with the sticky yoke, you just have to know it's there and adjust for it. I think I may be the first student he's ever soloed, I'm not sure but he seems to be almost scared to do it. The only thing that just outright ****es me off is -- the last time I flew 321, I made sure we reported the binding yoke. It's still not fixed. WTF?

So, maybe the weather will be OK on Monday.
 
DaleB said:
Sigh...

Instructor said he wasn't OK with me soloing in 321 since it had the yoke issue. I said, OK, fine.
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Why did you say fine? If the plane isn't safe for solo, how does it pass the test for dual? If you can't solo in it, it is unairworthy. "Why am I flying around in an unairworthy airplane? I'm not paying, that's not what I contracted for." and walk away without paying for the lesson. Only then will the plane get fixed, when they have to eat the discrepancies. If they don't like it, the FSDO would love to know about it, they'll make sure the issue gets rectified.
 
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Henning said:
Why did you say fine? If the plane isn't safe for solo, how does it pass the test for dual? If you can't solo in it, it is unairworthy. "Why am I flying around in an unairworthy airplane? I'm not paying, that's not what I contracted for." and walk away without paying for the lesson. Only then will the plane get fixed, when they have to eat the discrepancies. If they don't like it, the FSDO would love to know about it, they'll make sure the issue gets rectified.
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I wouldn't say it was unsafe or not airworthy. "A little balky" or "difficult to land well" would be more like it. Very difficult to apply the last few degrees of up elevator with any degree of finesse. No trouble until you're just trying to get that last bit of elevator authority in, a foot or two up and approaching stall speed. I'd have to fetch the log book, but I think we did 8 landings. Of those, I'd say about half were quite good (for a student pilot, not like they were UAL Airbus quality). I went around once, a couple were nothing to brag about and one was meh... okay... but well off the centerline. Certainly nothing that made the instructor reach for the yoke or pedals.

I do see your point, and will be talking to the owner. It does concern me that there's a squawk that got reported and not fixed. I certainly won't be renting that one again, period. In fact I hope that by next weekend I'm done renting from the FBO entirely. I should have word this week about the flying club, which has a 172 I can train in.
 
DaleB said:
Sigh...

I was supposed to solo this morning. I did the pre-solo written yesterday and had zero problems with it. We had a plane reserved at 9 this morning, and I got there a little early. It was not the one I've been flying regularly (42J), but another one I'd flown before (321). I had some trouble getting it to flare properly, and on about the third pass I realized that I know the reason why. This was the plane I flew a couple of weeks ago with a sticking yoke. The pilot side yoke binds for the last couple inches, so trying to get the elevator deflection you need in the flare... not happening, at least not smoothly. I'd get too little or the yoke would give all at once and we'd get a little too much flare. But I dealt with it.

In spite of this, I did pretty well. All of the landings were "OK", just not great except for a few of them. Even on the approach where we had to do about a 3 mile final due to an incoming Archer on a straight-in GPS approach, I was pretty high but still managed to get it in on speed and set it down smoothly. The only thing that made me a little unsure I'd be able to legally solo were the clouds - we were (what felt like) barely clear of them on crosswind and downwind, they were broken/scattered at about 1100AGL.

To add insult to injury, my regular ride (42J), which I had not reserved because someone else had it scheduled from 9 to 12, was sitting on the ramp the whole time. The guy never showed up. Instructor said he wasn't OK with me soloing in 321 since it had the yoke issue. I said, OK, fine. 42J is right there, 10 feet away -- let's preflight it and go. I'll fly another hour, no sweat. But he's got stuff to do for his graduation (sigh) so we'll have to try for Monday now. Says I'm definitely ready to solo. No, really?? My last CFI said that about 10 hours back. Since then it's been 2 hours of demonstrating for the new CFI the maneuvers and other stuff I know, and the rest has been touch and go hell.

OK, so it's a disappointment. I was fine with doing the solo flight in that airplane -- I'd already shown I could land it fairly well even with the sticky yoke, you just have to know it's there and adjust for it. I think I may be the first student he's ever soloed, I'm not sure but he seems to be almost scared to do it. The only thing that just outright ****es me off is -- the last time I flew 321, I made sure we reported the binding yoke. It's still not fixed. WTF?

So, maybe the weather will be OK on Monday.
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Dale,

Here is something to make you feel a lot better:

I had almost 40 hours. No solo. Finally took the pre-solo quiz home, turned it in, still no solo. One day, on a perfect evening, I did really REALLY well. It was about our 300th landing but the nosewheel kept CRASHING DOWN. He let me fly many landings, just asking me to hold the yoke all the way back. It was awful (the noise). We go back inside, to debrief, and he told me that he "doesn't usually do this" but he was going to schedule me for a solo the next meeting. You see, he told me that he was going to solo me that night, but when we flew, the nosewheel was all busted up. He said my landings were good, the weather was perfect, and he was all ready to step out of the plane. So I came back that weekend, and though the plane was fixed and the landings weren't that great, he did get out of the plane and I did solo. It would have been a bit more fun on that perfect night, rather than a busy Saturday with 4 other planes in the pattern, but that is OK.
 
Thanks, Kimberly. I'm just trying to keep a positive attitude about it. Winds today are very close to the max x-wind for the Cherokees, so we decided to put it off another day. We're playing "Dawn patrol" tomorrow; I'm meeting my CFI at 0550 and we should have the plane ready to roll by sunrise at 0612. If the weather cooperates, I should be done and back home in time for my 0900 conference call.

I had originally hoped to be done by now -- DONE done. When I started flying with the now defunct school, I had hoped to finish up before the spring weather moved in. We can go for a week or more at a time with sustained high winds, like 30 MPH or more gusting to over 50. It gets bad enough we won't get the motorcycle out, and it's 800# of Harley road sofa. Lately it's been bouncing between "severe clear" and rain, wind, etc. So, I'm just hoping for the best and reminding myself that patience is a virtue. :) HOWEVER... my instructor leaves the day after tomorrow for a couple of weeks, so I'm pretty set on getting my solo endorsement before then! We're both in agreement that I'm more than ready.
 
DaleB said:
Thanks, Kimberly. I'm just trying to keep a positive attitude about it. Winds today are very close to the max x-wind for the Cherokees, so we decided to put it off another day. We're playing "Dawn patrol" tomorrow; I'm meeting my CFI at 0550 and we should have the plane ready to roll by sunrise at 0612. If the weather cooperates, I should be done and back home in time for my 0900 conference call.

I had originally hoped to be done by now -- DONE done. When I started flying with the now defunct school, I had hoped to finish up before the spring weather moved in. We can go for a week or more at a time with sustained high winds, like 30 MPH or more gusting to over 50. It gets bad enough we won't get the motorcycle out, and it's 800# of Harley road sofa. Lately it's been bouncing between "severe clear" and rain, wind, etc. So, I'm just hoping for the best and reminding myself that patience is a virtue. :) HOWEVER... my instructor leaves the day after tomorrow for a couple of weeks, so I'm pretty set on getting my solo endorsement before then! We're both in agreement that I'm more than ready.
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I want you to know that myself and at least three others had a "general" idea / goal of when we would finish up (one even had his own plane).

Guess what? None of us were even close. We were all off by MANY months. Training takes a long time, indeed, but it is worth it. Be patient, once you solo, things will happen a lot more quickly (and will be a lot more fun).
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
I want you to know that myself and at least three others had a "general" idea / goal of when we would finish up (one even had his own plane).

Guess what? None of us were even close. We were all off by MANY months. Training takes a long time, indeed, but it is worth it. Be patient, once you solo, things will happen a lot more quickly (and will be a lot more fun).
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Yeah, it's not gone as smoothly as I had planned, but I figured it wouldn't. I could have been more aggressive in the beginning but that's all hindsight -- it will all work out, and a couple of years from now I'll hardly remember this stuff I'm sure.

I'm really hoping Thursday night will bring me some good news. There is a flying club based at the airport that has a 172, a 182 and an Arrow. They have a fixed number of memberships, so you have to wait for someone to sell theirs. I have an application in for the one open membership, and I know there's at least one other applicant. I'm going to the board meeting Thursday evening, and if I get the membership I'll have access to the 172 at about $20 an hour less than the Cherokees. It looks to be a little nicer, too -- 2004 paint & interior, and a panel-mounted Garmin 396. Crossing my fingers on that. I've never flown a 172, so I don't know how much time it will take to get up to speed and endorsed for it. Once I'm checked out in it, I plan to fly the hell out of it.
 
DaleB said:
Yeah, it's not gone as smoothly as I had planned, but I figured it wouldn't. I could have been more aggressive in the beginning but that's all hindsight -- it will all work out, and a couple of years from now I'll hardly remember this stuff I'm sure.

I'm really hoping Thursday night will bring me some good news. There is a flying club based at the airport that has a 172, a 182 and an Arrow. They have a fixed number of memberships, so you have to wait for someone to sell theirs. I have an application in for the one open membership, and I know there's at least one other applicant. I'm going to the board meeting Thursday evening, and if I get the membership I'll have access to the 172 at about $20 an hour less than the Cherokees. It looks to be a little nicer, too -- 2004 paint & interior, and a panel-mounted Garmin 396. Crossing my fingers on that. I've never flown a 172, so I don't know how much time it will take to get up to speed and endorsed for it. Once I'm checked out in it, I plan to fly the hell out of it.
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How does this affect solo / CFI / whatever. Do you have to start all over again?
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
How does this affect solo / CFI / whatever. Do you have to start all over again?
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Nope. The club allows primary training, and all the CFIs at the FBO/school are on the approved list for club planes. So, I'll solo in the Cherokee, then later on all I will need to do is get in whatever time it takes me to get checked out in the 172. I'll likely just fly the Cherokee while my guy is gone (he's on the UNO flying team, they have a big competition somewhere).

I'm really looking forward to flying the 172. With the newer paint & interior it should be really nice to fly, and I want to learn to land a high-wing anyway. And no forgetting the boost pump, not that it's been a problem for me. The visibility should be better for pax once I get to fly Wifey around with me, and to be honest -- while I do love the Cherokee, I don't love getting in and out through that one door on the wrong side of the plane.
 
If it's nice might get up an hour earlier and do some night to the East, catch the dawn and as the sun starts to break turn West for home. Beautiful way to start the day.
 
Henning said:
If it's nice might get up an hour earlier and do some night to the East, catch the dawn and as the sun starts to break turn West for home. Beautiful way to start the day.
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I don't think he's game for showing up before 5 AM. :dunno: Kids.
 
DaleB said:
I do see your point, and will be talking to the owner. It does concern me that there's a squawk that got reported and not fixed. I certainly won't be renting that one again, period. In fact I hope that by next weekend I'm done renting from the FBO entirely. I should have word this week about the flying club, which has a 172 I can train in.
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I seem to recall a Piper AD for yoke bushings. You may wish to look that up. My iPad doesn't like the AD site or I'd look it up for you! But I did find this
http://avstop.com/news2/faa_proposed_ad_yoke_shaft_inspection_on_certain_piper_aircraft.htm
 
This morning we started preflight around 6 AM. The sun was just peeking over the horizon when we took off. Winds were calm according to AWOS, but they had been light from 290-310 earlier. I suggested we use 30, but my instructor wanted to use 12 -- it's the default calm wind runway. As it turns out there was a little breeze from the NW, so he said to make the first landing full stop and use as much runway as I could. We did a U-turn in the runup area and took off again on 30.

It really felt like cheating a little... cool air (about 45F) and almost no wind, just a light breeze right down the runway. I did a T&G, then a full stop and my passenger disembarked -- said he'd already signed my log book while I was doing the preflight. I then did three takeoffs and full-stop landings, each one just a little smoother than the first. I was proud of them, got a very satisfying little "chirp" from the main gear about a second before the nose wheel touched. I got the plane parked, logbook filled out, paid and enjoyed a Cuban Montecristo #5 on my way home.

.4 PIC solo. It's a good day.
 
Woo-hoo... AND I finally figured out how to embed a stupid video!
 
DaleB said:
This morning we started preflight around 6 AM. The sun was just peeking over the horizon when we took off. Winds were calm according to AWOS, but they had been light from 290-310 earlier. I suggested we use 30, but my instructor wanted to use 12 -- it's the default calm wind runway. As it turns out there was a little breeze from the NW, so he said to make the first landing full stop and use as much runway as I could. We did a U-turn in the runup area and took off again on 30.

It really felt like cheating a little... cool air (about 45F) and almost no wind, just a light breeze right down the runway. I did a T&G, then a full stop and my passenger disembarked -- said he'd already signed my log book while I was doing the preflight. I then did three takeoffs and full-stop landings, each one just a little smoother than the first. I was proud of them, got a very satisfying little "chirp" from the main gear about a second before the nose wheel touched. I got the plane parked, logbook filled out, paid and enjoyed a Cuban Montecristo #5 on my way home.

.4 PIC solo. It's a good day.
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Some of my worst landings have been on beautiful days, you gotta be careful against complacency on the nice days... oh yeah, congrats on the solo, was that your first time as a pilot or had you soloed before.
 
Henning said:
Some of my worst landings have been on beautiful days, you gotta be careful against complacency on the nice days... oh yeah, congrats on the solo, was that your first time as a pilot or had you soloed before.
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Complacent? Good Lord, no. I was every bit as attentive as I would have been with a gusting crosswind... just a lot more comfortable. I kept waiting for the thermal bumps, they just weren't there. Note to self: Make sure the first time I fly with my wife, we take off just after sunrise. The one thing I did notice, though... just after takeoff at around 100-300 AGL, that engine sounded TERRIBLE the first time around. I'll bet that's what it will sound like on my first night flight and my first solo X/C, too. :)

First solo flight, ever.
 
I'm not a pilot but that looked smooth from this perspective. How was it in your eyes and in the eyes of your instructor?
 
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