Back in the saddle...with doubts

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Etherscreen

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Etherscreen
I’m curious else is in my situation. I got my PPL 12 years ago after about 70 hours. I’m now 47. Shortly after that we had our first daughter and then second daughter and then for some. So basically for the past decade I have not flown but I was always interested in learning how to fly so I could go places. I’m not sure how realistic this is with a family of five and a low our pilot.

I thought I wanted to get back into it so I found a very good instructor who actually teaches safety seminars for the FAA. I took my first lesson this past weekend and it’s like I had never piloted an airplane before. My taxiing was bad and I just felt nervous. Even in the airplane I started to second-guess my reasoning for flying again.

I guess I have two concerns. #1 That I will spend this time and money and learn to fly again and end up in the same position I was when I learned 12 years ago and stop flying. #2 is safety. I know nothing is 100% safe except maybe sitting in my chair at home watching TV. I guess when I come online and start reading the forums I always hear about this accident and that accident, and close calls. This all seems to add to my questioning myself if I really want to fly again.

What drives me to start flying again is I would love to go places eventually. I’m not talking 50 miles but trips 400-600nm. How realistic is this for a gen aviation pilot? I don’t want to be under constant stress and anxiety so I’m curious if these feelings improve with experience?

Sorry for the long post but I was just curious if anyone else has been in my shoes and if so did you come out successful on the other side?
 
The more you fly, the more experience you get, the less anxiety. I do 3 or 4 400-600nm trips a year. The first couple were stressful, after that you realize it's no big deal, as long as you always keep the attitude that you don't have to be anywhere at a given time. Weather > everything else. Also, don't cheap out on maintenance to reduce the odds of failure when away. Personally, I wouldn't rent for long trips unless they take good care of the plane, but that's just me.
 
You clearly have a desire and passion for flying. Don't let fears and anxiety stop you.

Try to push your concerns out of your mind and focus on your dreams. You WILL get there.

Stop reading accident reports, at least for now. Let yourself enjoy the learning experience, one step at a time. Someday you will appreciate how far you came and enjoy all the benefits of flying adventures.
 
Yeah, stop reading accident reports. You’ve already fed your mind, don’t be a glutton.

I believe I read somewhere early on in my flying that half of all accidents are caused by the pilot, a quarter are caused by weather (which goes back to pilot judgement), and a quarter to mechanical (which sometimes speaks to the owner-pilot).

I can control a lot of that and reduce the odds somewhat. You can too. Keep a healthy respect as you are doing and your chances get better.
 
I was never in your situation but I would say it's very doable. BUT it will require commitment and $$$ on your part. If you enjoy flying, go for it! But the costs to obtain the experience to safely operate a capable five place aircraft won't be for the faint of heart. Personally I wouldn't fly my family around without an Instrument Rating and experience to be proficient in the 5 place aircraft...
 
Thanks for the replies. Gives me some hope that I can do this.
My goal was to knock the rust off and do some short xc and then start my instrument.
 
Family willing to fly? Seems like it is hard nowadays getting a family of five willing to take trips. Now that mine have grown, it’s easy for my wife and I to see grandkids, cousins, 3-4 day trips across the country. Back when kids were growing up, there was too much competition to do other family things that did not require the planning and compromises. The good thing about getting old, grandmas love to visit grandkids for a few days, and then get back home. Wife and kids will win on where and what to do on vacations. I flew alone for 20 yrs for business and pleasure. Now my wife goes wherever I want to go, but she still doesn’t like her grandkids and their parents in a small plane.
 
no, of course...you are not alone!
I also have a family of 5 and I've been wrestling how I might realistically get places with all of them. Not so many planes fit that need...especially rentals.
I keep flipping between dreaming about some little 2-4 seats thinking that realistically it'll be me most of the time, or maybe me +1
and flipping back to dreaming of something for the whole crew.

So I was three flights into my refresh after 16 years off, before this pandemic hit. Have taken another break now.
I have a few more hours than you do, and felt like my airwork for the most part was like riding a bike...but there are some areas that make me a bit nervous.

regarding your concern #1...I wish I was a better example. I've done the rusty then get recurrent thing more than once.... this last time by far significantly longer, but still. My rust refresh, the one before this 16 year break, was broken by having a goal. I got proficient, then got my instrument currency back, took the commercial written, & started working on commercial maneuvers.... then before getting very far along I moved to a new town...and broke the cycle again....
 
OP, we are in a very similar situation in initial PPL, hours, time off, and age. I got checked out again 3 summers ago with plans to get my instrument rating but ran into a instructor shortage at the flight school I had chosen and then work got busy. I've chosen another flight school, done the ground review, and am trying to schedule to go up with the instructor. Keep at it!
 
Would you enjoy flying by yourself, and maybe the Mrs, without the kids?
If so, then you can get your training done and fly that way until you either gain the confidence to fly the rest of the family, or wait until all your kids are out of the house.
I have dealt with the same thoughts, and I decided I can minimize the risks with the following behavior:
- I only fly in good VFR. If the weather is uncertain, I do not fly.
- I NEVER plan trips to an event I have to attend. They are always family trips that I can cancel at any time.
- I bought a safe plane, C182, and made it safer by adding BRS
- I never do anything that raises my adrenaline (the steepest turn I have made in 600 hrs is 20 degrees, except during FRs)
- I carry a minimum of 1 hr of extra fuel, but most of the time it's 3 hrs

FYI, I soloed at 18, then did not fly until I was 36, by which time I forgot everything.
If you enjoy flying, just do it, and figure out the family later.
 
While I don’t share the same experiences or motivations as you do, perhaps I can offer some things to think about. For perspective, I started my journey eight years ago. Took three years to get my ppl, flew a year in a time share deal, took two years off and now I’m in a club and living the dream. My main motivation for flying is that I love it. I’m also just one year older than you with a wife and now two adult daughters.

So, you said your #1 concern was starting and then stopping again, like you did before. But you never really explained why you stopped before. I stopped for two years because I didn’t have an affordable way to fly. Why did you stop?

#2 safety. Yes, nothing is 100% safe. There are no guarantees up there, you know that. There are things you can do to mitigate but it’s a personal decision on your part if you feel comfortable with loading up yourself and your family for one of those long trips. Go over the IMSAFE checklist and be honest with yourself.

#3 is making long trips with your family a feasible thing? Absolutely. But, how does your spouse feel about flying in a small plane? Have you taken them up yet? My wife is okay with flying so long as the plane is faster than the cars below and there is a vacation in it for her. When I was with the time share the plane was a 160 hp 172. She would be looking down at the highway and noting how slow the plane is compared to traffic. My older daughter was willing to try it. Took her up and around the pattern. Got on downwind and she’s like “nope, I want down now”.

I think my message is this: if you truly love flying then you will do it for yourself first and be totally okay with it if the family trip idea never becomes a thing. Maybe if you have that mindset it might help guide the process.

Just my $0.02

ps: don’t be frustrated about your skill level after taking a decade off. That pilot stuff comes back real quick. Gotta be patient. Two or three flights with your cfi and it’ll be like you never took a break.
 
You trained for 70 hours, got your private ticket then stopped. So your real world experience (i.e. not in a training environment) is essentially zero. That's not a deal breaker by any stretch. But I think you need to keep that perspective in mind while getting yourself back up to speed. No you're not going to have to start all over and learn everything over again. But you should expect that it will take some extra time to get your skills back to where they once were.

Once you get there, it'll be time to start doing some short (100-200 mile) VFR cross countries. Should probably do one or two with a CFI and then do some on your own without any help. Get those dialed in and the 300-400 mile trips will be fine.
 
If all you really want to do is trips, airliners will be better and probably cheaper. Cars will likely be faster in the long run. Sorry to pour cold water on things, but it's the truth. If you want to fly because you want to fly, and doing trips might be a nice cherry on top, then go for it. Just doing trips isn't sufficient justification. You could probably do a half dozen trips with the whole family on what it would cost of acquire and feed an aircraft capable of doing the job.
 
To answer some of your questions:

I stopped flying shortly after getting my certificate because we had our first child and I couldn't justify flying around Kansas City, spending $200 a pop and going nowhere. I have a little more money now but I still see myself going places vs. flying locally.

I think a realistic plan now is to be a little selfish and get back into flying for me. I would love to move on to instrument with the goal to be competent and work on gaining skill over the next 5-10 years. Once the kids are out of the house we can fly around to see them and go on trips.

BTW, what a great forum. Thanks for all of the advice!

woodchucker said:
While I don’t share the same experiences or motivations as you do, perhaps I can offer some things to think about. For perspective, I started my journey eight years ago. Took three years to get my ppl, flew a year in a time share deal, took two years off and now I’m in a club and living the dream. My main motivation for flying is that I love it. I’m also just one year older than you with a wife and now two adult daughters.

So, you said your #1 concern was starting and then stopping again, like you did before. But you never really explained why you stopped before. I stopped for two years because I didn’t have an affordable way to fly. Why did you stop?

#2 safety. Yes, nothing is 100% safe. There are no guarantees up there, you know that. There are things you can do to mitigate but it’s a personal decision on your part if you feel comfortable with loading up yourself and your family for one of those long trips. Go over the IMSAFE checklist and be honest with yourself.

#3 is making long trips with your family a feasible thing? Absolutely. But, how does your spouse feel about flying in a small plane? Have you taken them up yet? My wife is okay with flying so long as the plane is faster than the cars below and there is a vacation in it for her. When I was with the time share the plane was a 160 hp 172. She would be looking down at the highway and noting how slow the plane is compared to traffic. My older daughter was willing to try it. Took her up and around the pattern. Got on downwind and she’s like “nope, I want down now”.

I think my message is this: if you truly love flying then you will do it for yourself first and be totally okay with it if the family trip idea never becomes a thing. Maybe if you have that mindset it might help guide the process.

Just my $0.02

ps: don’t be frustrated about your skill level after taking a decade off. That pilot stuff comes back real quick. Gotta be patient. Two or three flights with your cfi and it’ll be like you never took a break.
Click to expand...
 
Etherscreen said:
Thanks for the replies. Gives me some hope that I can do this.
My goal was to knock the rust off and do some short xc and then start my instrument.
Click to expand...

In addition to all the good advice others have posted, I'd recommend a bit more flying than just "knocking the rust off" before starting instrument training. You could certainly do it that way, but I might figure on, say, maybe 30 to 50 or so hours (exact amount not important) of VFR flying, lots of good cross-country, varied radio work (tower, flight following, etc.) as well as air work and pattern, so that you're fairly comfortable with the plane (preferably the same model you'll use for instrument) and your basic skill level. It makes instrument training much smoother. Plenty of pilots have successfully done it sooner, but I've never been a fan of starting instrument training right after private, say, at 41 hours, or such.
 
I second what Jim Carpenter said. Once you get current and signed off, and once people are able to dine in groups again, plan on doing lots of VFR meal flights. Keep your eyes open for every fly-in pancake breakfast within 150 miles. Make a list of every airport restaurant and cafe within 200 miles and try the cheeseburger at every one of them. Doing a bunch of that kind of 'going somewhere other than the local practice area' kind of flying will make instrument training go much smoother IMO.
 
When you finish your flight review, get out and do some short XCs for the extra experience of getting away from the local area and hitting airports you haven't seen yet. There are some, like JEF and HUT, that have restaurants on the field and are far enough away to make a nice XC exercise. Check with your CFI for some referrals - you might find a flying buddy to split expenses and to give yourself a reason to fly.

As far as your concern about safety: For me, that's a healthy attitude to have. It helps prevent complacency. Some of the fear, though, should go away with experience and confidence. Ask your CFI to push you through a lot of emergency scenarios, engine out drills, partial flap landings, lost procedures, all sorts of stalls, whatever you can think of.
 
I've recently returned to flying after a 30 year hiatus.
Jim Carpenter said:
In addition to all the good advice others have posted, I'd recommend a bit more flying than just "knocking the rust off" before starting instrument training. You could certainly do it that way, but I might figure on, say, maybe 30 to 50 or so hours (exact amount not important) of VFR flying, lots of good cross-country, varied radio work (tower, flight following, etc.) as well as air work and pattern, so that you're fairly comfortable with the plane (preferably the same model you'll use for instrument) and your basic skill level. It makes instrument training much smoother. Plenty of pilots have successfully done it sooner, but I've never been a fan of starting instrument training right after private, say, at 41 hours, or such.
Click to expand...
I have to agree with this. I recently had to knock a LOT of rust off. 30 years worth. Needless to say, I have a LOT of flying to do to re-learn BASIC navigation. Re-establishing IFR competency and currency is many hours down the road.;
 
Yeah, you obviously shouldn't fly, I came back after 25 years, greased my first landing, got my BFR signed off in 45 minutes.... LOL, just kidding, you should fly and I could barely land at first, it took me a lot longer than I had planned to get my BFR. You'll hear about people jumping right back in after huge layoffs without a hitch, that's them not you (or me).

Actually, I had high expectations it would be easy, but reality was more like your experience. It's natural to be apprehensive coming back. Flying certainly has its risks, but most of them can be mitigated. You have to decide it's worth it. Driving has risks too, maybe not as many, but still, that's how I look at it.

My biggest problem coming back, is that I expected and would accept no less than perfection in my performance, especially landing. It took a while to realize that my goal should be perfection, but safe is good, it's never perfect.

I had a great instructor coming back, he asked my goals in flying. I told him I wanted to fly recreationally, I wanted to be a safe pilot, and I wanted to feel comfortable flying to an new airport and landing there. We worked through my landing issues, we covered all the reclassifications I had to know, we went to airports I hadn't been to before, I became proficient, he signed me off, that was about 3 years ago.

Now I have my instrument rating, I fly at least once a week. I'm constantly searching out new airports.

My longest trip was Bedford MA to Winston NC, it was a piece of cake. ( 4.5 hours flying versus 12 hours driving).

You've gotten some great advice above, I won't repeat it but will add this: I made a promise to myself that if I feel I am not performing as I should in the cockpit, I will call my cfi, make an appointment, and address it. I did this a couple times since I've been back mostly just after I was set free to fly on my own. I also do recurrent training every 6 months as a requirement for the planes I rent. Those turn into a BFR or an IPC. Even if I stop renting from this outfit, I will continue with the recurrent training.

Now get out there and get it done, the anxiety will lessen with experience and confidence.
 
I came back after a five year layoff. I've been flying VFR for the last two, and now finally knocked out my IPC, and now feel good about flying in the system and doing approaches. The more I fly, the better I feel, and the more I want to fly. That is the key, get out and fly. The more you do, the better it will feel.
 
Flew for 5 or so years then took 20+ off have been flying the last 7. When I started back the first three hours were discouraging. I had a lot of the same thoughts. BUT around hour #4 things just started to click again. All of the things I used to do automatically came back. The instructor I choose basically did a mini-private pilot with me and signed me off after 7 hours.

As far as going places that to me is a more of a money question. I fly for fun mostly, rarely traveling somewhere but bought a plane last September so anticipate that will change.
 
I studied hard before my flight review after 30 years and had no issues with any of that stuff. There is an avalanche of training information online. The flying was hard though. It took about 2 1/2 hours and about 30 of some of the worst landings I ever remember making before my instructor finally said "that's enough...you're rusty but you're safe" and signed me off. I will say that initially thereafter I had to force myself back into the air solo and I was nervous until I actually got airborne. Now, my airplane handling isn't an issue, and I'm learning navigation. Thirty years ago, there was no GPS. SAR work as a CAP Mission Pilot used LORAN. Sheesh.
 
Twelve years is a big break for someone with only ~70 hours. Plus you've added some worry. Relax and enjoy it. It will come back, it will just take some time.

It's harder to fly with five, just as there are not as many 6 seater planes. We have three kids, but the oldest didn't like flying much, even commercial. Once she was off to college the four of us flew for trips regularly; and some before that. The younger two loved it. They really loved it once in college, as we would pick up one daughter and then fly to the other's college for the weekend when their college football teams played each other. They just showed up at the airport, hopped in and off we go. They'd sit in the back and do homework/class projects.

The youngest loves the beach. She and I would go to St Simons Island for the day. Get there, rent bikes, ride around, hang out at the beach, and just have a good time. What is a 5 hour drive is a 1.5 hour flight. That meant we could have breakfast and dinner at home and lunch at the beach.

The youngest just graduated college. We are still flying for trips. I just flew up to get the middle daughter and her dogs for the Memorial Weekend. It would have been 6-7 hrs of driving each way for her, including after work on Friday. It was only 1.5 hr of flying each way for me and she couldn't take the dogs on Delta; her sisters wanted to see her dogs as much as seeing her. We had more trips planned for this year, but COVID has made a mess of them. I'm still working on a big trip out west.

If the traveling works out I would recommend getting your instrument rating. Depending upon where you live and where you want to go drives how much that matters. We have flown many trips where VFR wasn't an option or it wasn't a good option. The family is used to being above the clouds, between cloud layers, even in the clouds, and then breaking out on an instrument approach and finding a runway in front of us. :cool: In the desert southwest it sounds like IFR doesn't help as much as it does here in the southeast.

We've taken 800+ nm trips. Not many, but a few. We flown plenty of 400-500 nm trips. We've also done trips with hops. Here's one example: Go to Disney World for a few days, then a few days at Fort Lauderdale, then stop by Sarasota on the way home to visit my MIL for lunch and the afternoon and then on home. Round trip we spent as much time flying as it would have taken to just drive to Disney World; that doesn't include the time to drive back home.

Is it cheaper? Not usually. When it was the four of us we had several trips that were cheaper than commercial, but that's just incremental cheaper. As in that one flight was cheaper, but not including getting the license and if I needed to shoot approaches for currency. Now that it's usually just two of us it's typically more expensive, but we have way more control over our time. For some trips it's not much more, so well worth it. Longer trips definitely favor the airlines. Plus we can bring, food, wine, bourbon (the middle daughter lives in Kentucky), bikes, whatever we want that fits. Just because I could I moved my daughter out of her small traditional dorm room at the end of her freshman year with Baron 58. I can tell you it was a lot nicer flying for 3 hours round trip than driving 12+ hours. :D Pulled out the back two seats and no problem. It was harder to fit everything in the Kia Sportage once we got back to the home airport. o_O
 
300-600 nm is probably the sweet spot for a light single. Faster than the airlines, and an easy one day trip of one or two legs. An instrument rating will enhance safety, but this length trip can be usually be made VFR if you are flexible. This kind of flying is not about saving money, but personal fun and convenience. One of my favourite trips with my copilot spouse are jaunts to Maine for lobster, shopping, and minor league baseball, or hiking. A 3 hour flight beats 12 hours on I-90 and I-95 anytime.

Everything has risk. Shoot, sitting and watching TV might be riskier than many activities. Inactivity alone will lead to early cardiovascular decline. Pursue your passion. Enjoy the challenge.
 
The problem you have is that you are 47 with a wife and kids, so you think about things - probably over thinking. Your stress level and anxiety will go down GREATLY once you start flying, learning, and ultimately enjoying the experience again. Trust me on this.

I took lessons and got my license at 17 years of age. It is really hard to justify giving the keys to an automobile much less an airplane to a 17 year old kid. What I am saying, is that when you learn how to fly at 17 you worry about NOTHING - and that is not good. Maybe there are some mature for their years 17 year old private pilots. I was not one of those and I am lucky to have lived through my 21st birthday.

At 57 years old now, I am a MORE conservative pilot than I was years ago. I know enough about things to be worried when I need to be and not when I don't need to be.

I think you are at a great stage in life to learn how to fly. Maybe the best in regard to maturity and thought processes. Give it a try and I think you will be surprised at how most of your perceived concerns either 1) can be taken care of, or 2) are not really justified.

Good luck and have fun!
 
Just have fun.....keep flying till you're comfortable. It'll come back....and don't worry about the instrument rating. Like was said, you barely had a chance to imprint what you learned before you took a break. It's gonna take time....but, it will come back.
 
This is awesome. I am 46 this month and just started out with a goal of flying. Have started reading the FAA must read books until the schools open up again. My dad was an Air Force test and instructor pilot. But he hasn’t flown in 25 years and he is 72. I am also doing this for my dad, so that we can share experiences and excitement once again, and my wife and kids are not opposed, can finally afford to splurge a bit on myself. I have the same anxieties, and it is good to hear all of your experiences. My anticipated mission is somewhat similar as the OP. Hopefully the OP can find someone to fly with, maybe a club or a partnership, that might take it to the next level. Good luck.
 
48 years old, Fire Captain, 1 kid in college (LSU GEAUX TIGERS) and my son who is a Jr. in High School. I got my glider PPL in 2003. Flew a good amount of gliders in 2 years. Kids got older, cost more money, and caused the flying to stop. Daughter started looking at colleges, and we started flying around alot. This got my wheels turning. My best friend in HS is a 40,000 hour commercial airline pilot now, and flys for work, and flys everyday he's able when not driving the A320. We talked alot, and discussed the potential risks, and benefits of GA for hours. After all those discussions, much about safety, and all those travels I set myself a goal to add on my SEL, and pursue Instrument/Commercial so I can semi-retire in 5 years from the FD, and do something in the aviation world as I had dreamed about for years. I thought about it quite a bit and had some doubts as you did/do. I decided that I'm at the age where anything can happen. So much in our life can end in catastrophe, regardless of how much we think we're in control. I came to the realization of the terminal timeline in life, and I refuse to be lying in a bed someday kicking myself saying "I shoulda done this, shoulda done that". Being a bit more mature now is a great thing, and has lead me to definitely have the vision of safety being paramount. Perhaps this is some new pilot nerves, and being extra cautious, but I think my age is helping too. Much if not all of the macho daredevil testosterone that I had as a 20 year old has been replaced by thinking it all out, weighing the facts, and making good decisions based on information at hand. I'm at 150 hours right now total glider and SEL. I have had my times where the news has flashed about accidents, and caused me doubt. I get concerned at times, but focusing on what and how to mitigate the risks of GA through good safety practices gets me through those concerns. I have a long road to go, and I think I'll have many more peaks and valleys of emotions and concerns, but just like you, its our dream. I will, and you too should pursue it. Live life, be intelligent, and make the best decisions about all things safety related. We'll both get there, and we'll enjoy the heck out of the journey getting there. CHEERS !
 
@Etherscreen you are me three years ago. I got my ppl around 2000. Flew for two years on and off. Started instrument then just stopped flying as life gets in way. fast forward to around 2018 friend of mine who knew I used to fly for my 40th bought me a BFR. I bought into a club in a 182. Flew around and knocked out my instrument. Took kids to New Hampshire this weekend for a birthday party. Currently slowing working on commercial then off to multi is the plan. I love to learn. I like to take lessons. My wife is not a fan. Requires fair amount of meds and real purpose to fly. I’ve gotten past that though. Kudos to dedication to instrument thought. This Friday when I launched I needed it and glad I had it or I would have had to wait and be less safe.
 
Got my PPL in the 70s. Took my 3 kids for my last flight then for the 4th of July... (Boring for all of us). About 19 years went by. Life will do that.

I took about 9hours of dual to get a BFR and feel confident. Flew off and on for about a year. Then more life happened.

23 years went by.

I decided to go again... Tried to get my medical and got deferred... But I got it. And I'll be using Basic Med from now on.

Covid kept me from getting into the air as soon as I wanted. But, I found an instructor, and then he was exposed to COVID so I had to wait some more... Then, he got COVID, and I had to wait a bit more..

But, finally... We got up and I got some dual... About 4 hours worth. And my CFI I said, "you're safe and competent. I just signed off your FR."

I was a bit surprised.

I scheduled the plane for myself, alone, about a week later. I was REALLY nervous. I was extremely methodical about the check lists, staying on course, following procedures. I had to go to another airport for fuel (we don't have avgas at our club strip). Flew the pattern properly, got the fuel, bored some holes in the sky, and returned to home field, "safely and competently."

I'm not a perfect pilot, and never will be.

The simple fact is, most PPLs fly only 35 to 50 hours a year. Maybe just enough to stay kind of current... Maybe.

My point is... You can do it... You can achieve the goal, and... You can, safely, competently, and PROFICIENTLY travel with your family...

Get it done, you won't regret it... Even if you only fly 50 hours a year.

Good luck!

fly to the scene of the incident, or be recovered at the scene of the tragedy
 
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