Aviation's Glass Ceiling-why more women don't fly

[Michele]

Cool article in AOPA Flight Training magazine.

The article is titled, Aviation's Glass Ceiling. It discusses the issue of why there aren't more women pilots. I thought it was interesting in that it went beyond financial issues to understand the dearth of women going into flying.

http://flighttraining.aopa.org/magazine/2013/March/career_pilot.html

Here is an excerp.
The phenomenon of female disinterest in professional flying as a personal career track is the subject of a study commissioned by the Wolf Aviation Fund Teaching Women to Fly Research Project. Its report, based on extensive interviews, concludes there are 10 major barriers that women face:

1. Lack of money for general aviation flight training.

2. Instructor-student communication incompatibility.

3. Instructor interruptus, when instructors leave flight training to take airline or charter jobs, often requiring the student to start over with another instructor. This is time consuming, expensive, and discouraging to many female students.

4. Lack of female mentors and support systems.

5. Personal lack of confidence in their ability and a “fear of flying,” especially of stalling the airplane too early in the training process.

6. Lack of experience with and knowledge of mechanical systems.

7. Lack of map reading experience and orienteering skill sets.

8. Flight schools perceived as indifferent to female students.

9. Famous female pilots largely unknown as role models to non-aviator women.

10. Lack of emotional support from family and friends who perceive flying as “too dangerous.”

 

[jnmeade]

More quotes from the article:
" Masson says, “I suppose if the job were just concerned about flying, there would be a lot more women. But, the job isn’t just about flying. It’s wrapped up in a whole lot of other unappealing circumstances—unappealing to women who may not have the drive, ambition, financial means, or the family/network to pursue flying as a career. Flying has to be something that you really, really want because, even gender issues aside, it’s a very challenging and demanding career.”"

"... in the difficult-to-overlook near term, investing time and incredible sums of money for a job that starts at $22,000 per year; that requires living out of hotels week in and week out, which may be unappealing to anyone, regardless of gender."

As a flight instructor and charter pilot, my observation is that women don't pursue aviation careers because they don't want to. They want to do other things. I never saw an environment where women were discouraged from flying. The women I taught to fly were good pilots. The women I flew with were good pilots. Of those, one was older, married with no kids at home, another was in her early twenties and had no attachments, and a third was married, then divorced, with no children. As far as my experience is concerned, if more women wanted to be pilots they could be just as easily or more easily than a man, because society is biased to give women preference. I think most women simply don't care to be pilots.

 

[wabower]

I think women are too smart to think the hare is worth the chase.

More quotes from the article:
" Masson says, “I suppose if the job were just concerned about flying, there would be a lot more women. But, the job isn’t just about flying. It’s wrapped up in a whole lot of other unappealing circumstances—unappealing to women who may not have the drive, ambition, financial means, or the family/network to pursue flying as a career. Flying has to be something that you really, really want because, even gender issues aside, it’s a very challenging and demanding career.”"

"... in the difficult-to-overlook near term, investing time and incredible sums of money for a job that starts at $22,000 per year; that requires living out of hotels week in and week out, which may be unappealing to anyone, regardless of gender.?

As a flight instructor and charter pilot, my observation is that women don't pursue aviation careers because they don't want to. They want to do other things. I never saw an environment where women were discouraged from flying. The women I taught to fly were good pilots. The women I flew with were good pilots. Of those, one was older, married with no kids at home, another was in her early twenties and had no attachments, and a third was married, then divorced, with no children. As far as my experience is concerned, if more women wanted to be pilots they could be just as easily or more easily than a man, because society is biased to give women preference. I think most women simply don't care to be pilots.

 

[Everskyward]

I think women are too smart to think the hare is worth the chase.

Wait a minute.

I think you are on to something, though...

 

[wabower]

You don't count, you're a lifer.

Wait a minute.

I think you are on to something, though...

 

[Z06_Mir]

My mom flew professionally for many years. Somewhere over 25 I believe. She flew freight and charter and did some instructing also. She saw a lot more discrimination than I ever will I know that.

I'd say nothing was really different when I was learning between myself and my boyfriend who was learning at the same time. I have noticed some things that do bug me though. I was with a friend (male) and I was in the left seat and the line guy asked him what we wanted. Excuse me, I'm the PIC here. When I worked the line I always asked the lady if they flew. Many many times they did and it was refreshing to talk to more lady pilots who are with other pilots.

More recently during my instrument training there were 3 of us ladies at my flight school.. All in our 20s and all getting instrument ratings. It's been great to have other women around during that process.


Bottom line.. Females don't fly because they don't want to, maybe because they don't feel like its a world for the, but maybe they're just not interested. If you don't love it and if its not all you think about when you're flying then you shouldn't do it. Male or female.

 

[hindsight2020]

Yep, essentially gender roles and economic self-interest drive women's aggregate scoffing of the pylet profession. Women have no interest in slaving away to get their jollies off operating machinery. As opposed to what most feminists may wish women had undertaken after the sexual revolution, most women really didn't take well to the responsibilities that come with the primary breadwinner role. Working is hard and stuff...

Just like science and engineering, women have no real interest in pursuing these vocations sans clear economic incentives. Which is why they pursue secondary careers and portable jobs and largely elect to marry into their desired material lifestyle. None of it has to do with lack of access. A woman can just as easily do the pylet thing professionally. They just know it's a lousy career and in aggregate don't find the activity as engaging as it does for boys, who are more willing to socially ostracize themselves in order to manipulate controls for a living.

Look at the demographics of women professional pilots. Scruffy bunch, mostly childless and dislocated and certainly not the envy of their female peers. And most women pilots know the existence of that riff too. The ones I interact with in the military summarily throw their wings away the second mommy fever hits, not even blinking twice. For a position I personally worked for all my 20s in order to competitively get. To them? Meh, a nice 5 year adventure story to tell the kiddos in 20 years. To me, a whole livelihood. To them? A distraction while waiting for hubby to make rank or upgrade the house so she can play mommy full time. Women simply have no aggregate desire to pursue these vocations with the level of interest men who pursue them do. Nothing to see here.

 

[Engine]

Certainly an interesting topic Michele. I've give the topic thought myself.

 

[Michele]

My mom flew professionally for many years. Somewhere over 25 I believe. She flew freight and charter and did some instructing also. She saw a lot more discrimination than I ever will I know that.

I'd say nothing was really different when I was learning between myself and my boyfriend who was learning at the same time. I have noticed some things that do bug me though. I was with a friend (male) and I was in the left seat and the line guy asked him what we wanted. Excuse me, I'm the PIC here. When I worked the line I always asked the lady if they flew. Many many times they did and it was refreshing to talk to more lady pilots who are with other pilots.

More recently during my instrument training there were 3 of us ladies at my flight school.. All in our 20s and all getting instrument ratings. It's been great to have other women around during that process.


Bottom line.. Females don't fly because they don't want to, maybe because they don't feel like its a world for the, but maybe they're just not interested. If you don't love it and if its not all you think about when you're flying then you shouldn't do it. Male or female.

I like you, DirectasFiled. You're a tough lady to stand up in this crowd and make sense. How could I not agree with you, you speak from experience and you speak from your heart. Congrats on working your dream. You are so lucky to have had such a stellar role model as your mom.

Before I took a discovery flight three years ago, I never knew any pilots-male or female. The only female pilot I'd ever heard of was Amelia and we all know what hp happened to her. Except for people I met through flying, I am the only pilot any of my friends and family have ever met and they enjoy that fact. Not everyone knows about flying, we can't say that women don't fly because they don't want to-most never thought it was possible.

I share some of your experiences. When i fly with my non pilot husband, even through he tumbles out of the right seat, line guys ask what he wants. Sometimes if they ask me, they look at him. It's a difficult path for women, even for those of us that are in it as a hobby-it must really be hard for those seeking it as a career. March is women in aviation month and its good to have a time set aside to examine and discuss the phenomena.

 

[aviatingfool]

Cool article in AOPA Flight Training magazine.

The article is titled, Aviation's Glass Ceiling. It discusses the issue of why there aren't more women pilots. I thought it was interesting in that it went beyond financial issues to understand the dearth of women going into flying.

http://flighttraining.aopa.org/magazine/2013/March/career_pilot.html

Here is an excerp.
The phenomenon of female disinterest in professional flying as a personal career track is the subject of a study commissioned by the Wolf Aviation Fund Teaching Women to Fly Research Project. Its report, based on extensive interviews, concludes there are 10 major barriers that women face:

1. Lack of money for general aviation flight training. AFFECTS BOTH GENDERS

2. Instructor-student communication incompatibility. SAY WHAT? LAME EXCUSE.

3. Instructor interruptus, when instructors leave flight training to take airline or charter jobs, often requiring the student to start over with another instructor. This is time consuming, expensive, and discouraging to many female students. AFFECTS BOTH GENDERS

4. Lack of female mentors and support systems. DO YOU REALLY THINK MALES KEEP FLYING ONLY BECAUSE THEY HAVE MENTORS AND A SUPPORT SYSTEM?

5. Personal lack of confidence in their ability and a “fear of flying,” especially of stalling the airplane too early in the training process. OH WELL....BUCK UP!

6. Lack of experience with and knowledge of mechanical systems. OH WELL.....GET SOME. I KNOW SEVERAL MALE PILOTS THAT CAN'T CHANGE THEIR OWN OIL....and no, I won't fly with them.

7. Lack of map reading experience and orienteering skill sets. AFTER ALL THESE YEARS OF WHINING THAT MEN DON'T ASK FOR DIRECTIONS YOU WANT TO USE THIS EXCUSE? HOW HAVE YOU BEEN GETTING AROUND ALL THESE YEARS?

8. Flight schools perceived as indifferent to female students. NOT HARDLY.

9. Famous female pilots largely unknown as role models to non-aviator women. TOTAL BS -LOOK 'EM UP LIKE WE ALL DID. Just ignore Amelia.

10. Lack of emotional support from family and friends who perceive flying as “too dangerous.” SAME FOR BOTH GENDERS.

What a bunch of nonsense. With this kind of whining I hope they don't make it in aviation. Just what's needed in the cockpit, somebody making excuses for everything and taking NO responsibility for anything. Just lovely and NOT COOL at all.....sounds like whining from the 40s or 50s....

 

[Michele]

Yep, essentially gender roles and economic self-interest drive women's aggregate scoffing of the pylet profession. Women have no interest in slaving away to get their jollies off operating machinery. As opposed to what most feminists may wish women had undertaken after the sexual revolution, most women really didn't take well to the responsibilities that come with the primary breadwinner role. Working is hard and stuff...

Just like science and engineering, women have no real interest in pursuing these vocations sans clear economic incentives. Which is why they pursue secondary careers and portable jobs and largely elect to marry into their desired material lifestyle. None of it has to do with lack of access. A woman can just as easily do the pylet thing professionally. They just know it's a lousy career and in aggregate don't find the activity as engaging as it does for boys, who are more willing to socially ostracize themselves in order to manipulate controls for a living.

Look at the demographics of women professional pilots. Scruffy bunch, mostly childless and dislocated and certainly not the envy of their female peers. And most women pilots know the existence of that riff too. The ones I interact with in the military summarily throw their wings away the second mommy fever hits, not even blinking twice. For a position I personally worked for all my 20s in order to competitively get. To them? Meh, a nice 5 year adventure story to tell the kiddos in 20 years. To me, a whole livelihood. To them? A distraction while waiting for hubby to make rank or upgrade the house so she can play mommy full time. Women simply have no aggregate desire to pursue these vocations with the level of interest men who pursue them do. Nothing to see here.

Pylets, ...really? Is that a regional thing? Demographics? You did a demographic study? I don't think so. Look how you denigrate the women you know who are PILOTS. Tsk-tsk-tsk.

Somebody better tell the International Women in Aviation group that they're going to need a bigger month...like a decade.

 

[Michele]

What a bunch of nonsense. With this kind of whining I hope they don't make it in aviation. Just what's needed in the cockpit, somebody making excuses for everything and taking NO responsibility for anything. Just lovely and NOT COOL at all.....

You know, Aviatingfool (good handle), in my airplane it's called the Box Office. And Frankly, whining is allowed. Even encouraged, if that's what takes at that moment. You see, in my airplane, the one thing that isn't allowed is misplaced machismo.

Maybe we need a a couple of lifetimes to change these disparaging attitudes. It's really a shame. Why can't we all just get along-after all, it's a big sky.

 

[aviatingfool]

You know, Aviatingfool (good handle), in my airplane it's called the Box Office. And Frankly, whining is allowed. Even encouraged, if that's what takes at that moment. You see, in my airplane, the one thing that isn't allowed is misplaces machismo.

No wonder you worry about a ceiling, I would too with that whiny attitude. Fortunately I know several great female pilots that would be ashamed of this nonsense, as should you.
Flame on as you will, there is no point in continuing any input - your mind is made up to whine and grasp for excuses and call them "cool" rather than get on with it like successful women aviatrixes. (sp?)
See ya.......

 

[Z06_Mir]

I like you, DirectasFiled. You're a tough lady to stand up in this crowd and make sense. How could I not agree with you, you speak from experience and you speak from your heart. Congrats on working your dream. You are so lucky to have had such a stellar role model as your mom.

Before I took a discovery flight three years ago, I never knew any pilots-male or female. The only female pilot I'd ever heard of was Amelia and we all know what hp happened to her. Except for people I met through flying, I am the only pilot any of my friends and family have ever met and they enjoy that fact. Not everyone knows about flying, we can't say that women don't fly because they don't want to-most never thought it was possible.

I share some of your experiences. When i fly with my non pilot husband, even through he tumbles out of the right seat, line guys ask what he wants. Sometimes if they ask me, they look at him. It's a difficult path for women, even for those of us that are in it as a hobby-it must really be hard for those seeking it as a career. March is women in aviation month and its good to have a time set aside to examine and discuss the phenomena.

Thank you. I could go on and on about my up bringing and how I've seen things in life. I don't need to though. I've been around aviation my entire life and I don't know much else. I do know that I will not be a professional pilot, though some day I would like to instruct on the side.

I think it boils down to accountability. Yes we may have a little more to prove, but in the end were just as capable as our male counter parts. No excuses on that. We unfortunately do have more to prove to our instructors, other pilots and chief pilots though. That doesn't mean we're not just as capable though. If you're not succeeding its likely because you're not a good pilot for one reason or another, not because you're a woman. That's where being accountable comes into play.

 

[Jim Logajan]

What a bunch of nonsense. With this kind of whining I hope they don't make it in aviation. Just what's needed in the cockpit, somebody making excuses for everything and taking NO responsibility for anything. Just lovely and NOT COOL at all.....sounds like whining from the 40s or 50s....

Um, wrong thread. This isn't "Let's make Friday Joke Day"

 

[Michele]

Yes, flying is about accountability. But I don't think the article or the intent of this thread was for women to assume a defensive posture. There is no doubt in my mind that women make capable, talented pilots. Directasfiled is one, I'm another. Heck, look at women in aviation over this past century and you'll find women have been outstanding transport pilots, aerobatic pilots, air show pilots, fighter pilots in war. Heck, women have broken world records for all kind of airplane feats. Women can fly, it's just these role models aren't widely advertised.

What we want to do is discover contributing factors to women's low profile in the field and engage a respectful dialogue that could address, maybe change that.

 

[DutchessFlier]

Boy this topic really brought out the A*holes, didn't it?

 

[wickedsprint]

One of my earliest instructors always told me that this was a "ladies'" sport given that they have way more finesse than us dudes.

 

[ja_user]

Boy this topic really brought out the A*holes, didn't it?

That's #11

 

[ja_user]

One of my earliest instructors always told me that this was a "ladies'" sport given that they have way more finesse than us dudes.

Kind of like golf, or shooting sports.

 

[ClimbnSink]

What? Accountability? Women pilots get held to a lower standard not a higher one. Ladies if you think your ride is hard, you should be scared of your skill level and what you don't know.

 

[poadeleted20]

After over 40 years of flying, including going through Pensacola with the first batch of female Naval Aviators, I believe it's people like aviatingfool who are the largest part of the problem. Too many male pilots and instructors treat women with either condescension or derision, and that does not go unnoticed. Look at the Stick vs Yoke thread on PoA for more examples of stupid male chauvanism ("Real men fly with sticks" "The only reason yokes showed up was to enable women to fly in skirts"). So, it's us, not them.

 

[Fearless Tower]

What? Accountability? Women pilots get held to a lower standard not a higher one. Ladies if you think your ride is hard, you should be scared of your skill level and what you don't know.

Yes, there are still cases here and there where there is some truth in that, but you cannot make a sweeping general statement like that.....it is simply not true.

 

[bluee]

What? Accountability? Women pilots get held to a lower standard not a higher one. Ladies if you think your ride is hard, you should be scared of your skill level and what you don't know.

The DPE I took my checkride with is an older woman, and she made it particularly difficult for female pilots, because of that crap you just wrote.

 

[azure]

As far as my experience is concerned, if more women wanted to be pilots they could be just as easily or more easily than a man, because society is biased to give women preference. I think most women simply don't care to be pilots.

This is true today, for the same reason we have affirmative action programs based on race. It's an implicit recognition of the many societal biases that work against women (not to mention outright discrimination in many settings). Things are getting better slowly, but there is still a huge gender disparity in traditionally male dominated fields like, oh, physics for example. We now have 4 female faculty members in our department, up from 3 only a year ago, and 2 before I was hired on as faculty (total of 39 regular, non-adjunct faculty). The reasons are complex and cultural as well as societal.

 

[Dr. O]

My daughter Luan, accomplished professional, never had any interest in flying (arrrrgh) But along the lines of women being held to different expectations.

Her assistant told me of the time she accompanied Luan to pick up her new Alfa Romeo from the dealer. The car was in the wash rack so she went back there to wait for it. The fella doing the drying and polish took a real shine to her and kept trying to make small talk. As Luan slipped into the driver's seat he says, "I bet your boyfriend will be happy to see his new car."
Luan looked at him for a moment then gently said, "No. My boyfriend can't afford a car like this."
The guys face said it all. He could not comprehend that the woman might be the one funding the car.

 

[Michele]

I'm just shocked that we cannot have a simple discussion about why woman don't fly without it feeling, to some males, like an attack against males. None of the women on this thread, myself included, is trying to attack men. I like and respect most of the pilots I know-94% are men. Heck, everything I ever learned, all I know about flying, I learned from a man.

But I have come across general societal issues about what a women's role is and how that conflicts with society's notion of what a pilot is that have made it difficult to be a pilot. A difficulty that obviously doesn't weigh me down as I continue to learn and fly and be the best pilot toe to toe with any pilot. The problem is that I'd love to have more women friends in the field--it's lonely being the only woman, or one of two or three, in groups of hundreds of pilots.

I can see that many women, even of they knew about the possibility of flying might not want to fly as a career because it is difficult to balance with traditional family roles. I can see that. But that doesn't seem like all of the answer because there are many women in non traditional roles that take them on the road a lot.

No one in this thread or the AOPA article is saying that all men alone are the problem that women don't fly. That's too simplistic. It's like saying all women make good mothers or that all men make good pilots or whatever. No, this problem is rooted in our society and the responsibility for the lack of female pilots is borne collectively by men and women alike. Yes, we hold ourselves back, but we have a lot of help. The dialogue should be about how to encourage women who might feel passionately about this awesome sport to indulge themselves. What might we all do in our spheres.

I haven't been flying much lately, (work, plane Mx, Wx, etc), but I go out of my way to take women pilots up, especially student women pilots and women pilots without regular airplane access. I participate in "Fly it forward" events and I try and engage non women pilots by encouraging discussion, showing pictures and offering rides.

Of course, I extend the same to male pilots and am active in my neighborhood flying circles. But I do, whenever possible, go out of my way to engage and encourage women. That's what I do. Oh, and yes, I open myself up to criticism and name calling by trying to engage a dialogue on forums.

 

[hindsight2020]

After over 40 years of flying, including going through Pensacola with the first batch of female Naval Aviators, I believe it's people like aviatingfool who are the largest part of the problem. Too many male pilots and instructors treat women with either condescension or derision, and that does not go unnoticed. Look at the Stick vs Yoke thread on PoA for more examples of stupid male chauvanism ("Real men fly with sticks" "The only reason yokes showed up was to enable women to fly in skirts"). So, it's us, not them.

No, it's the "buckets" in the community that give the other women a bad name. Im sorry if it offends the feewings of the female peanut gallery up in here, but in my stint in the military there's one too many women for whom I've had to personally pick up the slack for under the auspices of female-centric motivations being utilized to scoff at the job. It's not even a function of ability, it's an outright lack of vesting and long term interest in the cotton-pickin job.

This crap is rampant and historically cemented. Look at the pioneers the DOD shoved down our collective throats for decades in the name of equality. Kelly Flynn, Martha McSally, Kara Hultgreen. Complete basket cases. These are easy to point out only because they were lousy sticks. I'm not even attempting to make that case for women in general, I'm merely pointing out the aggregate female lack of interest in the job in all levels of professional aviation as supporting evidence and the primary reason women as a general population are not interested in toiling as a pylet. Put another way: To a lot of men flying is a passion they're willing to make irrational and detrimental economic decisions for (stupid, but that's for another thread). Conversely, to a lot of women flying is kinda of a neat thing buuuuut they're not really going to forego the ability to mate a man willing to set them up in a comfortable material standard, particularly when viewed by their female peers, just to go play starving pylet for decades and screw their material comfort dream up for a nomadic lifestyle many of the men archetypes they want to mate with are simply not interested in jousting with. Thence, we have the reality of the numbers. That's all folks. No need to get militant.

If you're a female professional pilot and you feel socially ostracized by your choices, meet female engineer and her plight. This is not unique to female pilots. Your nemesis is not men, it's school teachers and nurses and their willingness to appease the gender roles that get them the life most women want. I'm not telling all women to go back to the kitchen, I'm simply pointing out that the social market has spoken and it has jack to do with access when it comes to women pilots.

--break break--

For the angry woman poster, pylet is a pun utilized to describe the notion that it doesn't take an individual with high scholastic ability to perform the duties of a professional pilot, and that in aggregate the preponderance of pilots, 121 pilots at least, are not all that academically high achieving despite their technical job. In other words, most surgeons could be airline pilots, most airline pilots couldn't be surgeons. It's a gender neutral assertion, no need to get your feewings insta-hurt. I'm a professional pylet too and freely admit Im overeducated for my duties. Im not upset about that, I enjoy my work very much, but it doesn't change the fact I underutilize my technical education. My peers do my job just as well on a lot less education.

 

[Michele]

The reasons are complex and cultural as well as societal.

Well said Azure. Exactly. Now, how do we tackle complex and cultural reasons so that a few more women might be encouraged and supported?

 

[bluee]

I would guess that most women just don't think about it, except women who come from aviation families like me. I've taken a few friends up with me, and only one had real interest. My husband started lessons because of me, but he isn't sure he wants to commit the time to get a certificate when he freely admits he will most likely only go flying with me.

 

[ClimbnSink]

Well said Azure. Exactly. Now, how do we tackle complex and cultural reasons so that a few more women might be encouraged and supported?

100% BS. Not complex. Not cultural. Women don't fly because they don't want to. The ones that do want to fly have it easier, not harder. Since every woman who wants to fly can, why do you need more women pilots? So you get more social value from the experience? Besides you'd be ****ed if a bunch of pretty, young women showed up at the airport and rendered you invisible.

 

[Fearless Tower]

This crap is rampant and historically cemented. Look at the pioneers the DOD shoved down our collective throats for decades in the name of equality. Kelly Flynn, Martha McSally, Kara Hultgreen. Complete basket cases. These are easy to point out only because they were lousy sticks.

Kara Hultgreen was hardly a basket case and I would argue not a 'lousy stick'. The problem with Hultgreen was the Navy killed her....she had distinguished herself in A-6s and the Navy decided to 'accelerate her life' -THEY pushed her through at a lightening pace in order to make a female F-14 pilot. If she had male plumbing and been pushed through that kind o accelerated transition, that accident most likely still would have happened.


Your whole rant reeks of someone who has been burned by affirmative action. Yes, it is true, there have been many women that were put on the fast track in order to break through, and consequently when you do that, you get some less than qualified people in those positions.....that is the nature of Affirmative Action. But, those barriers were broken a long time ago and to continue to be bitter about crap that happened 20 years ago doesn't really help anyone.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[bluee]

100% BS. Not complex. Not cultural. Women don't fly because they don't want to. The ones that do want to fly have it easier, not harder. Since every woman who wants to fly can, why do you need more women pilots? So you get more social value from the experience? Besides you'd be ****ed if a bunch of pretty, young women showed up at the airport and rendered you invisible.

Total crap. Women do not have it easier, not everyone who wants to fly can, or can afford to. What the hell does your last sentence mean? I am nice looking, but that has nothing to do with my ability. That is sexist crap.

 

[Everskyward]

I'd say nothing was really different when I was learning between myself and my boyfriend who was learning at the same time. I have noticed some things that do bug me though. I was with a friend (male) and I was in the left seat and the line guy asked him what we wanted. Excuse me, I'm the PIC here.

Bit of advice here. If you are female that is going to happen a lot. Have a sense of humor. Get over it. I've often been mistaken for a concierge, flight attendant, flight nurse or another passenger. You're going to be somewhat of a novelty so so need to accept it. Also, remember that when two men are flying as a crew the older grey-haired guy is always assumed to be the captain, so it isn't just women whose roles are mistaken by other people.

 

[bluee]

100% BS. Not complex. Not cultural. Women don't fly because they don't want to. The ones that do want to fly have it easier, not harder. Since every woman who wants to fly can, why do you need more women pilots? So you get more social value from the experience? Besides you'd be ****ed if a bunch of pretty, young women showed up at the airport and rendered you invisible.

So that's how you must feel when some hot young studs show up at the airport.

 

[Everskyward]

Now, how do we tackle complex and cultural reasons so that a few more women might be encouraged and supported?

I don't think the problem is that women are unaware that this is an avenue open to them if they choose. It's 2013. I also don't think there are institutional barriers any more. The company where I work employs about 30 pilots. Right now I am the only female although there have been a few others in the past. I know this is not because of discrimination. The company was founded in the 1970s by a female who was not a pilot. The CEO's wife was an airline pilot although she chooses not to work as one any more.

I learned to fly in the 1970s. I never remember encountering much resistance, only surprise and curiosity. I was not aiming to be a professional pilot at that time although I can remember my primary CFI urging me to go in that direction. Almost everyone I can remember working with has been accepting, even if they were wary in the beginning.

I don't know what we should do about the problem of so few female pilots. I'm not even sure it is a problem. Just like with men, it's not something everyone wants to do. Look at how hard it has been to expand GA in general. I think people, male and female, are aware that they can become pilots but simply are deciding not to do so.

Edit: To address the bitter men in this thread, remember they are saying more about themselves than they are about women.

 

[timwinters]

Michele,

I have nothing to add to the conversation except to state that my "ignored user" list has increased by three!

Dammmm...that puts it at almost 30 now. It gets pretty hilarious when Stphen and Levy and Henning and Ben and Geico and Tom get into one of their pizzing contests. Sometimes I'll have 2 to 3 blank pages!

That's always a nice confirmation that the thread should've been on ignore to in the first place and there it goes...

...And life is good.

 

[poadeleted21]

So that's how you must feel when some hot young studs show up at the airport.

Hot young studs at the airport? v most airports look like an AARP convention.

 

[jonnyjetprop]

Total crap. Women do not have it easier, not everyone who wants to fly can, or can afford to. What the hell does your last sentence mean? I am nice looking, but that has nothing to do with my ability. That is sexist crap.

I have found that when women pilots make it to the professional ranks, they do have it easier. Management and unions are so worried about lawsuits, they'll bend over backwards to appease them. I make no comment to the process to getting to the professional ranks.

 

[Mtns2Skies]

Oh, and yes, I open myself up to criticism and name calling by trying to engage a dialogue on forums.

*sigh* unfortunately the nature of the beast. Pilots are usually "holier than thou" in whatever manner they can grasp at, I admit I am guilty of this too at times. I apologize to women out there, I hadn't realized how rampant sexism still is. I had assumed it had died out long ago, but I suppose that's because my generation is far more tolerant. It seems there are still plenty of people stuck in the past as evidence by this very thread.