Aviation's Glass Ceiling-why more women don't fly

[redtail]

"In the United States, affirmative action refers to equal opportunity employment measures that Federal contractors and subcontractors are legally required to adopt. These measures are intended to prevent discrimination against employees or applicants for employment, on the basis of "color, religion, sex, or national origin".

Examples of affirmative action offered by the United States Department of Labor include outreach campaigns, targeted recruitment, employee and management development, and employee support programs.

The impetus towards affirmative action is to redress the disadvantages associated with overt historical discrimination. Further impetus is a desire to ensure public institutions, such as universities, hospitals and police forces, are more representative of the populations they serve."

 

[azure]

got me there.. women are terrible with directions, giving directions, taking directions, following directions.....bad spacial skills all together.

Now that right there is BS. On my private checkride the DPE was impressed by how I could always point to the airport no matter where we were.

I know quite a few women who are excellent navigators using maps. On average we tend to prefer directions over maps -- but the exceptions are legion.

Look at the number of women in Engineering....math....economics...most science fields....

With the exception of biology, that's true. But those fields are all strongly dominated by men, so it's hard to separate out how much of that is due to differences in ability and how much to boys' club mentalities. As I posted earlier, in physics the gender gap is much smaller for graduate students than faculty. Most of those graduate students already have a BA or BS in physics.

 

[Aviatrix]

most girls I ever knew had more money than me, as I had to work my ass off while they were daddies little girls with new cars and just about anything else they wanted.....

I believe that is more of a class issue you're pointing out vs. a gender issue. I've seen many spoiled boys by their parents.

 

[EdFred]

Why can't people see us as equal pilots?

It's not you, I dont see anyone as my equal.

 

[Fearless Tower]

It would be nice if you came up with an actual rebuttal to his statement rather than just raising a BS flag

But I guess there is no legitimate rebuttal to the truth.

You hit the nail on the head.

 

[Henning]

Cool article in AOPA Flight Training magazine.

The article is titled, Aviation's Glass Ceiling. It discusses the issue of why there aren't more women pilots. I thought it was interesting in that it went beyond financial issues to understand the dearth of women going into flying.

http://flighttraining.aopa.org/magazine/2013/March/career_pilot.html

Here is an excerp.
The phenomenon of female disinterest in professional flying as a personal career track is the subject of a study commissioned by the Wolf Aviation Fund Teaching Women to Fly Research Project. Its report, based on extensive interviews, concludes there are 10 major barriers that women face:

1. Lack of money for general aviation flight training.

2. Instructor-student communication incompatibility.

3. Instructor interruptus, when instructors leave flight training to take airline or charter jobs, often requiring the student to start over with another instructor. This is time consuming, expensive, and discouraging to many female students.

4. Lack of female mentors and support systems.

5. Personal lack of confidence in their ability and a “fear of flying,” especially of stalling the airplane too early in the training process.

6. Lack of experience with and knowledge of mechanical systems.

7. Lack of map reading experience and orienteering skill sets.

8. Flight schools perceived as indifferent to female students.

9. Famous female pilots largely unknown as role models to non-aviator women.

10. Lack of emotional support from family and friends who perceive flying as “too dangerous.”

What does any of this have to do with gender outside natural propensities? Men and women are different. It's all hogwash.

 

[weilke]

In related news, the dinosaurs are apparently not extinct.

And I thought, my own field has its fair share of old carmudgeons, turns out aviation has us beat.

This thread is entertaining, and sad, but mostly entertaining.

 

[JOhnH]

My wife thought the article was interesting even if a little demeaning and patronizing. At the ripe old age of 53, after driving over 400 miles to Key West, with the last several hours on a two lane road that was mostly stop and go, she decided that was nuts. And when we finally reached that last Island, there on the right was an airport with a small single engine plane landing. She said that is how we should do it. And right there she decided she wanted to learn to fly. I am not sure how much she knew I loved and missed flying since I gave up my ticket over 30 years ago and more than a decade before I met her because of medical issues. But she decided that she wanted to do it, so she did. Yeah, I helped her with some of the mechanical issues and legal issues, but she did all the rest on her own because she decided she wanted to.

Right now, I would stack her flying skills and her navigating skills up against almost anyone else with her experience level.

Bottom line: Women can fly as well as men assuming they have a similar motivation. But societal issues are hard to resist and most women are placed in a box that doesn't include the rigors of flight, and don't respond to the motivators that drive most men.

 

[tlglenn]

Instructor interruptus, when instructors leave flight training to take airline or charter jobs, often requiring the student to start over with another instructor. This is time consuming, expensive, and discouraging to many female students.

My impression is that women want to build relationships that go beyond a mere exchange of information. So being able to stick with the same CFI from start to finish is going to be more important.

 

[Jim Logajan]

It would appear that in an area of the world where personal aviation serves as a primary mode of transportation/utility, a larger fraction of women will earn a pilot certificate. According to this story, an estimated ~27% of Alaskan pilots are female:

https://www.alaskadispatch.com/article/where-are-all-women-alaska-aviation

While not 50%, 27% is definitely better than the 6% for all U.S. certificate holders.

 

[Henning]

Wait, are you suggesting that dudes would actually get themselves into over $100k in debt and have to take any crappy flying job the could, earning next to nothing, all for a piece of a$$???

...okay, I guess I could see that.

Personally I think it is more a fact of males being more susceptible to SJS than their female counterparts.

Yeah, I buy it too

 

[murphey]

I found the article snarky. The correct answer to the question about the captain's mode of dress is "What time are the dinner reservations?".

I have a bit more insight into the article because I know the researcher on the Wolf Aviation Foundation grant that resulted in this article. I'm familiar with the survey method, the survey itself, and the results/comments provided along with the survey. Personally, I have qualms about the survey and the overall objective & objectivity of the study.

http://www.teachingwomentofly.com/summary.htm

 

[Tony_Scarpelli]

Well, I can say that I welcome more women into aviation. However, where ever and whatever it takes I hope to see more women flying. Airplanes are selling for less money than I have ever seen so hopefully a lot of non traditional pilots and aircraft owners come into the fold.

 

[Henning]

My wife thought the article was interesting even if a little demeaning and patronizing. At the ripe old age of 53, after driving over 400 miles to Key West, with the last several hours on a two lane road that was mostly stop and go, she decided that was nuts. And when we finally reached that last Island, there on the right was an airport with a small single engine plane landing. She said that is how we should do it. And right there she decided she wanted to learn to fly. I am not sure how much she knew I loved and missed flying since I gave up my ticket over 30 years ago and more than a decade before I met her because of medical issues. But she decided that she wanted to do it, so she did. Yeah, I helped her with some of the mechanical issues and legal issues, but she did all the rest on her own because she decided she wanted to.

Right now, I would stack her flying skills and her navigating skills up against almost anyone else with her experience level.

Bottom line: Women can fly as well as men assuming they have a similar motivation. But societal issues are hard to resist and most women are placed in a box that doesn't include the rigors of flight, and don't respond to the motivators that drive most men.

She flies just fine, in fact, of the gals I've flown with, they do a better job than most guys at it.

 

[Everskyward]

I found the article snarky. The correct answer to the question about the captain's mode of dress is "What time are the dinner reservations?".

I've heard that story about the captain in a dress many times and my reaction is aways to wonder how many female pilots actually pack a dress when they have an overnight somewhere for work.

The article and the survey are similar to others I've read about and I always get the feeling that I can't quite relate. Lack of map skills? That's funny because maps were one of my favorite things to look as a kid. I even made some of my own. Then I ended up in the mapping business for many years. That's why I keep coming back to women being individuals with a lot more variation than articles and surveys like this would have you believe.

 

[DeeG]

Cool article in AOPA Flight Training magazine.

The article is titled, Aviation's Glass Ceiling. It discusses the issue of why there aren't more women pilots. I thought it was interesting in that it went beyond financial issues to understand the dearth of women going into flying.

http://flighttraining.aopa.org/magazine/2013/March/career_pilot.html

Here is an excerp.
The phenomenon of female disinterest in professional flying as a personal career track is the subject of a study commissioned by the Wolf Aviation Fund Teaching Women to Fly Research Project. Its report, based on extensive interviews, concludes there are 10 major barriers that women face:

1. Lack of money for general aviation flight training.

2. Instructor-student communication incompatibility.

3. Instructor interruptus, when instructors leave flight training to take airline or charter jobs, often requiring the student to start over with another instructor. This is time consuming, expensive, and discouraging to many female students.

4. Lack of female mentors and support systems.

5. Personal lack of confidence in their ability and a “fear of flying,” especially of stalling the airplane too early in the training process.

6. Lack of experience with and knowledge of mechanical systems.

7. Lack of map reading experience and orienteering skill sets.

8. Flight schools perceived as indifferent to female students.

9. Famous female pilots largely unknown as role models to non-aviator women.

10. Lack of emotional support from family and friends who perceive flying as “too dangerous.”

1) Money was not a problem when I learned.

2) My instructors (all male) and I got along great.

3) Never had that problem

4) Why would a woman feel the need for a female mentor or some sort of support system? Support system for what?

5) The only time I ever had a lack of confidence was when I was trying to perfect partial panel NDB intersection holds. Hell, we did stalls on the second flight. Loved it.

6) Study the systems. Annoy a mechanic. Ask questions. That's how you learn.

7) Can't read a map? I suppose you blindly follow the GPS too, right?

8) Treated indifferently? Do you expect to be treated special because you have boobs?

9) Don't need a woman to be a role model for me.

10) I have never given a rats furry one to what my family thought about my flying. If any of them thinks its dangerous, they can stay on the ground.


I can understand from this study why woman pilots are not taken seriously. It really ****es me off that a lot of women expect to be treated differently.

Support systems, mentors, lack of mechanical skills, etc. WTF? All this touchy feely crap is making me somewhat nauseous. Grow a pair of ovaries, ladies. Stop whining. If you're serious about flying, get off your ass and learn. Get your hands dirty. Ask questions. The ONLY thing that I see as an issue is money. I worked part time at the flight school and traded for flight time. When I need more $$ for my multi training, I sold my Corvette.

If you're worried that you might break a nail or that your hair and makeup may get mussed, give it up, go back in the kitchen and bring your husband a sandwich and a beer.

Find me the women riding sportbikes, or any kind of motorcycle for that matter. Aren't many. Find me the ones participating in any kind of motorsport. Sorry, they're pretty thin on the ground.

I ride a sport bike. 2003 Moto Guzzi Scura. I have 30 motorcycles in the garage. It's my job to maintain them. I'm a pretty fair mechanic. And I do electrical, construction and plumbing work around the house. I also cook, bake a mean loaf of bread, and sew. And during the summer months, I tend to a 1/4 acre garden. I also target shoot, I'm learning archery and karate. In my spare time, I get paid to tell cops where to go

 

[Henning]

If you're worried that you might break a nail or that your hair and makeup may get mussed, give it up, go back in the kitchen and bring your husband a sandwich and a beer.

Hey hey now, lets not get uppity, just because we let you fly doesn't get you out of sammich and beer duty...

 

[Jim Logajan]

If under representation was confined to just male/female ratio then one could look to genetic and related differences for a cause. BUT...

Black males are also very underrepresented in the pilot population.

Anyone who continues to push any theory concerning women had better make sure it makes sense when applied to black males. Otherwise you'll be busy inventing a special theory for every group that is under represented.

The pilot population is white male dominated. Not male dominated. An important distinction.

The simplest theory that fits all the facts appears to be discrimination. Since overt discrimination by white males is alllegedly now rare, it may be taking some other form or simply a residual effect from past overt discrimination (i.e. other groups automatically assume "Oh yeah flying would be fun, but that's a white male thing. Not something my group does.")

 

[LandSickness]

I think it's more about what people assume about aviation from a distance. I come from a family with a legacy of a fear of flying, so like everybody else in my family, I accepted it. My father traveled his entire career by the airlines and when he retired, he decided, quite suspiciously, never to travel by flight again. I never found out why. It was enough to scare me away, until college when I could travel cheaper on Southwest than Amtrak.

The idea of becoming a pilot was foreign to me as well. I was always told it was a rich man's endeavor, unless you went to the military and even then, there was no guarantee you'd be one of the select few to make the programs. Add to that the fact that I hadn't seen many black pilots. Then, after raising a family, buying homes, and establishing my career and business, I looked at it again. What I thought was out of reach I could have acheived years ago.

I won't blame aviation for not reaching out to women or minorities because it doesn't exactly market to anyone. It's more a tight knit community, word of mouth system than an open invitation. In my experience, FBOs do more damage than good to the industry because some, dare I say, most are only friendly to their kind. Most male pilots I meet are pilots because their dads were pilots. If you're not a pilot, you're not in the club and the reactions to my walking into some FBOs range from polite indifference to that "look" that tells me I'm being monitored. I don't want to believe for a minute that in this day and age, those reactions could be about race, but whatever the reason, none of that will stop me. I would imagine it could be pretty intimidating to some, especially if it took all the courage you could muster to even walk into an FBO and ask questions.

I think the under representation of women and minorities in aviation is a combination of how daunting it seems from the outside, discouragement from family and friends(who actually mean well), and unwelcoming "boys club" FBOs that can make, in some cases, the worst possible first impression.

If under representation was confined to just male/female ratio then one could look to genetic and related differences for a cause. BUT...

Black males are also very underrepresented in the pilot population.

Anyone who continues to push any theory concerning women had better make sure it makes sense when applied to black males. Otherwise you'll be busy inventing a special theory for every group that is under represented.

The pilot population is white male dominated. Not male dominated. An important distinction.

The simplest theory that fits all the facts appears to be discrimination. Since overt discrimination by white males is alllegedly now rare, it may be taking some other form or simply a residual effect from past overt discrimination (i.e. other groups automatically assume "Oh yeah flying would be fun, but that's a white male thing. Not something my group does.")

 

[steingar]

1) I ride a sport bike. 2003 Moto Guzzi Scura. I have 30 motorcycles in the garage. It's my job to maintain them. I'm a pretty fair mechanic. And I do electrical, construction and plumbing work around the house. I also cook, bake a mean loaf of bread, and sew. And during the summer months, I tend to a 1/4 acre garden. I also target shoot, I'm learning archery and karate. In my spare time, I get paid to tell cops where to go

With no offense intended in any way, shape or form I must declare you a statistical outlier. Look around you at the riders some time. The vast majority are male, and I've never seen a woman mechanic at a bike shop in my longish life.

Compare that to Pharmacy, or Medicine, or a number of other fields in health care that were previously male dominated. They aren't anymore.

There is some merit to historical selection, that there aren't many female pilots because there weren't any female pilots. But the reversals I've witnessed in other fields suggests that such a mechanism isn't operant.

I have two good friends who's spouses will not fly with them under any circumstances, and I've read about more here. Any ladies out there who's husbands or boyfriends won't become volant?

 

[ClimbnSink]

FBOs don't discriminate, they treat everyone like garbage. Maybe women simply won't put up with aviations instituitional crap customer service. Most likely they just don't want to.

 

[redtail]

If under representation was confined to just male/female ratio then one could look to genetic and related differences for a cause. BUT...

Black males are also very underrepresented in the pilot population.

Anyone who continues to push any theory concerning women had better make sure it makes sense when applied to black males. Otherwise you'll be busy inventing a special theory for every group that is under represented.

The pilot population is white male dominated. Not male dominated. An important distinction.

The simplest theory that fits all the facts appears to be discrimination. Since overt discrimination by white males is alllegedly now rare, it may be taking some other form or simply a residual effect from past overt discrimination (i.e. other groups automatically assume "Oh yeah flying would be fun, but that's a white male thing. Not something my group does.")

I think you make some very good points. IMO it also has a lot to do with finances. Statistically, most blacks have been less able to afford flying than most whites.

 

[LandSickness]

FBOs don't discriminate, they treat everyone like garbage. Maybe women simply won't put up with aviations instituitional crap customer service. Most likely they just don't want to.

 

[Alexb2000]

FBOs don't discriminate, they treat everyone like garbage. Maybe women simply won't put up with aviations instituitional crap customer service. Most likely they just don't want to.

I'd say that FBO service has been one of the great high-lights of flying. Even landing at some out of the way airport and taking the cop car in for lunch has been good. Larger FBO's are almost always a great experience even if their fuel is higher. Why is this even relevant?

 

[bflynn]

there are 10 major barriers that women face:

1. Lack of money for general aviation flight training.
2. Instructor-student communication incompatibility.
3. Instructor interruptus, when instructors leave flight training to take airline or charter jobs, often requiring the student to start over with another instructor. This is time consuming, expensive, and discouraging to many female students.
4. Lack of female mentors and support systems.
5. Personal lack of confidence in their ability and a “fear of flying,” especially of stalling the airplane too early in the training process.
6. Lack of experience with and knowledge of mechanical systems.
7. Lack of map reading experience and orienteering skill sets.
8. Flight schools perceived as indifferent to female students.
9. Famous female pilots largely unknown as role models to non-aviator women.
10. Lack of emotional support from family and friends who perceive flying as “too dangerous.”

My first reaction to reading this list is to think that most of these apply to everyone, not just women.

There are only two real barriers to flying - one in your mind and one in your wallet. I'd say that the one in your wallet is easy to overcome once you've made up your mind that you're going to fly.

Is this the classic problem of "good girls don't"? That we're told by everyone around us what we're supposed to do and we believe them. That's not an aviation problem, it's not a female problem, it's a human problem.

 

[LandSickness]

I think you make some very good points. IMO it also has a lot to do with finances. Statistically, most blacks have been less able to afford flying than most whites.

I'm not sure I totally agree with this statement. Learning to fly is expensive, true enough, but I believe it's more about how one chooses to spend their disposable income. Not having disposable income is more a by product of a lack of education, entrepeneural expediency and a relentless desire to succeed and I don't think that can determined by race.

There might be economic limits that prevent the pursuit of an aviation career(I know a guy who was at Washington University in St. Louis when I was there who stopped at his PP-ASEL because he ran out of money and never went back), but recreationally, I've found, in my social circles anyway, that it's more about a basic fear of doing something "that dangerous" than it is about money.

 

[DeeG]

Hey hey now, lets not get uppity, just because we let you fly doesn't get you out of sammich and beer duty...

hahaha

Well, the spouse has sworn off alcohol for a while, and he doesn't much like sammiches.... So the other night I made him a nice steak with roasted veggies and pumpkin bars (with pumpkin I grew, not that canned crap) for dessert.

 

[Fearless Tower]

Is this the classic problem of "good girls don't"? That we're told by everyone around us what we're supposed to do and we believe them. That's not an aviation problem, it's not a female problem, it's a human problem.

I just haven't seen that....at least not since I was a kid in the 80s.

Yes (as we have seen in a few of the responses to this thread), there are still some holdouts that might still try and project that sentiment with today's youth, but in general I haven't seen much gender stigma placed on career choices in the last 10-15 years.

I have kids (two daughters) and my girls sure aren't going to be told things like that and I haven't heard it in schools or from other kids these days either.

Also, I've been on Active Duty in the Navy for the last 13+ years and haven't seen that type of gender discrimination either. The few areas in the Navy that continue to be limited gender-wise are not that way because women are seen as inferior or not as capable. The debate over women on subs for example is more about money, logistics and other complex issues than any kind of sense that women aren't capable. We still have a few all male surface ships here and there, because the cost to convert them to co-ed is just not worth it in the cost-benefit analysis.




Here is something worth considering if we are trying to find out what we can do to increase the number of women (or other minorities for that matter) in aviation: Someone needs to go out and ask the non-pilots out there whether or not they would consider flight as something worthwhile? If they say yes, then you ask those people to list the obstacles that prevent them from pursuing that. I'd like to see an ERAU student do a survey like that.

 

[N801BH]

........., I've found, in my social circles anyway, that it's more about a basic fear of doing something "that dangerous" than it is about money.

I agree 100%....

 

[DeeG]

With no offense intended in any way, shape or form I must declare you a statistical outlier. Look around you at the riders some time. The vast majority are male, and I've never seen a woman mechanic at a bike shop in my longish life.

No offense taken at all. I realize that I am in the minority. Most of the woman motorcycle riders I know ride pimped out cruiser style bikes, and they won't ride farther than the outskirts of town unless their husbands are with them. And none of them have any clue about how to fix even the simplest thing on their bikes.

They are shocked and dismayed that I could tear apart any one of my bikes and put it back together. The vast majority of them are overly concerned about what their 'riding outfit' looks like. And how their hair gets messed up under the helmet.

Its embarrassing. Then they whine about how guys just won't take them seriously. really?

But it does crack me up sometimes, especially when the spouse and I head to the parts counter. I've got my list of things I need and the guy behind the counter looks at my spouse, and he just shrugs and says "talk to the mechanic" and points at me.

I have often thought about wrenching for pay. Then I think about it, and I really don't want to spend all day working on someone else's bikes, then have to come home and look at the maintenance list on the white board in the shop. besides, they won't pay me to wrench what they pay me to answer 911 phones.

 

[steingar]

I have often thought about wrenching for pay. Then I think about it, and I really don't want to spend all day working on someone else's bikes, then have to come home and look at the maintenance list on the white board in the shop. besides, they won't pay me to wrench what they pay me to answer 911 phones.

Every shop owner to whom I've ever talked complained about the inability to hire good mechanics who showed up on time and weren't addled with drugs or other chemical recreants. You might find shop work more lucrative than you realize.

Now, I don't mean to cast aspersions in any way shape or form, but you've 30 bikes between 2 people. How busted up can they be?

And the Guzzi sounds sweet. Might be able to afford one, but not the mechanic. And you got big respect from me, I was never much of a wrench even when I was poor and did it a lot. If more gals were like you the world would be a better place.

 

[redtail]

I'm not sure I totally agree with this statement. Learning to fly is expensive, true enough, but I believe it's more about how one chooses to spend their disposable income. Not having disposable income is more a by product of a lack of education, entrepeneural expediency and a relentless desire to succeed and I don't think that can determined by race.

There might be economic limits that prevent the pursuit of an aviation career(I know a guy who was at Washington University in St. Louis when I was there who stopped at his PP-ASEL because he ran out of money and never went back), but recreationally, I've found, in my social circles anyway, that it's more about a basic fear of doing something "that dangerous" than it is about money.

I'm not saying money is the ONLY factor. What I'm saying is that the statistic show that the average white household has much more "disposable income" than the average black household. Therefore, the opportunity to use that disposable income for expensive hobbies, is greater. That's all.

As was stated before, when it comes to aviation, it's a combination of many factors. There is no single reason. The historical discrimination as well as education and income, have all played a part in the fact that aviation has been predominately a white male endeavor.

I'm just presenting facts here, not excuses.

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2011...record-highs-between-whites-blacks-hispanics/

"The median wealth of white households is 20 times that of black households and 18 times that of Hispanic households, according to a Pew Research Center analysis of newly available government data from 2009."

"As a result of these declines, the typical black household had just $5,677 in wealth (assets minus debts) in 2009; the typical Hispanic household had $6,325 in wealth; and the typical white household had $113,149.

Moreover, about a third of black (35%) and Hispanic (31%) households had zero or negative net worth in 2009, compared with 15% of white households. In 2005, the comparable shares had been 29% for blacks, 23% for Hispanics and 11% for whites."

 

[supernovae]

I'd say that FBO service has been one of the great high-lights of flying. Even landing at some out of the way airport and taking the cop car in for lunch has been good. Larger FBO's are almost always a great experience even if their fuel is higher. Why is this even relevant?

Perception.. all about perception. It's sort of like walking into a car dealership sadly.. if you don't click with the perception of the FBO and what they want to be bothered with, you don't get the light of day.

With that said though, I've been to some nice and friendly FBO's but i'd be lying if I didn't say I wasn't eyeballed up for all i'm worth at a lot of FBO's.

I think women would be a lot more welcomed to flying if there were simply more clean bathrooms If someone could get some Buckee's around at a few airports with their bathrooms, snacks and cheap fuel my family would be jumping at more trips!

 

[N801BH]

........
"The median wealth of white households is 20 times that of black households and 18 times that of Hispanic households, according to a Pew Research Center analysis of newly available government data from 2009."

"As a result of these declines, the typical black household had just $5,677 in wealth (assets minus debts) in 2009; the typical Hispanic household had $6,325 in wealth; and the typical white household had $113,149.

Moreover, about a third of black (35%) and Hispanic (31%) households had zero or negative net worth in 2009, compared with 15% of white households. In 2005, the comparable shares had been 29% for blacks, 23% for Hispanics and 11% for whites."

I treat those statistics are suspect...... This story is based on reported assets, not actual ones... That fact alone can and does skew results drastically...

 

[Fearless Tower]

I treat those statistics are suspect...... This story is based on reported assets, not actual ones... That fact alone can and does skew results drastically...

Perhaps, but do you really believe that blacks are on equal footing with whites financially? They might be in some parts of the country, but they sure aren't where I live.

 

[Alexb2000]

Perception.. all about perception. It's sort of like walking into a car dealership sadly.. if you don't click with the perception of the FBO and what they want to be bothered with, you don't get the light of day.

With that said though, I've been to some nice and friendly FBO's but i'd be lying if I didn't say I wasn't eyeballed up for all i'm worth at a lot of FBO's.

I think women would be a lot more welcomed to flying if there were simply more clean bathrooms If someone could get some Buckee's around at a few airports with their bathrooms, snacks and cheap fuel my family would be jumping at more trips!

Where are you flying? I landed at some simple out of the way places and generally the FBO's bathrooms are very clean (they don't see much use). I've also flown into Class B airports in a lowly piston single and never had a problem. I find tipping quickly places me in the "good customer" category and they don't really care what I fly anyway. FBO's for people who fly commercial seem like a dream world, it actually encourages them to get into GA (until they realize we don't have a bathroom onboard and we're flying in cruise at the approach speed of an airliner). You're right about perceptions, interesting.

 

[N801BH]

Perhaps, but do you really believe that blacks are on equal footing with whites financially? They might be in some parts of the country, but they sure aren't where I live.

They ain't equal for a variaty of reasons.. But they are nowhere near 20 times less.... Ya got to add apples to apples to get a comparable number.. IMHO.

 

[redtail]

I treat those statistics are suspect...... This story is based on reported assets, not actual ones... That fact alone can and does skew results drastically...

Drastically? I doubt it, but, granted the result could be skewed so let's shave 5% off and call it a 15 to 1 gap

Even at the lowest point of the graph (1995) from 1984 to 2009, there was a 7% gap between the "average" white household and the "average" black/hispanic household. So that means that for every hundred dollars of disposable income, there was seven hundred dollars per average white household. Again, we're talking averages here.

 

[steingar]

They ain't equal for a variaty of reasons.. But they are nowhere near 20 times less.... Ya got to add apples to apples to get a comparable number.. IMHO.

Given that a rather sizable percentage of the African American population is incarcerated, especially among the men, I'd easily believe the 20 times number.

 

[N801BH]

Drastically? I doubt it, but, granted the result could be skewed so let's shave 5% off and call it a 15 to 1 gap

Even at the lowest point of the graph (1995) from 1984 to 2009, there was a 7% gap between the "average" white household and the "average" black/hispanic household. So that means that for every hundred dollars of disposable income, there was seven hundred dollars per average white household. Again, we're talking averages here.

Hmmm..

If there was just a 7% gap in white households and black/ hispanic households then someone in not managing their finances properly..

7% is NOT a 20-1 ratio...