Aviation Colleges

Jaybird180

Jaybird180

Final Approach
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Jaybird180
I'm helping a young man decide where he wants to go to school to become an airline pilot. I recommended that he find a 4-year program, filter the list down to his top 3-5 and then we talk details. I'd like some reasonable feedback on the following list of 8 with emphasis placed on the four with an Asterisk please.

Academy College
Embry Riddle * (haven't decided which campus)
Phoenix East *
Baltimore County *
Purdue
University of E Michigan
Santa Fe
Miami Dade College * (Homestead)
 
Is he set on going to aviation college? Did you tell him there are more economical ways of doing it? PM me and I can give my number to him. I got my degree in Economics and flew on the side. I graduated with the same ratings as kids that graduated from aviation schools but I wasn’t in debt up to my neck.
 
jordane93 said:
Is he set on going to aviation college? Did you tell him there are more economical ways of doing it? PM me and I can give my number to him. I got my degree in Economics and flew on the side. I graduated with the same ratings as kids that graduated from aviation schools but I wasn’t in debt up to my neck.
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He wants to be focused. Money is always a constraint but if he can get a degree in an unrelated field then it gives him a Plan B. PM sent.
 
Jaybird180 said:
He wants to be focused. Money is always a constraint but if he can get a degree in an unrelated field then it gives him a Plan B. PM sent.
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Why would it have to be unrelated? A degree in aerospace engineering would give him an excellent Plan B. Might even become Plan A if he's interested in earnings.

Besides, if he wants to fly for an airline, I'm not aware of any colleges awarding degrees in customer harassment...
 
Half Fast said:
Why would it have to be unrelated? A degree in aerospace engineering would give him an excellent Plan B. Might even become Plan A if he's interested in earnings
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From what I've been reading, pilot salary has increased a lot recently. It may not be as big a difference between engineering and pilot pay as it was a few years back.

That being said, there is something pretty cool about walking the production line of an aircraft manufacturer. It should be noted that I was told at college career fairs that Lockheed hires more computer programmers than aeronautical engineers. And a mechanical engineering degree is better suited to many jobs in the aerospace world than aeronautical engineering. There's very little a AE does that an ME doesn't. And ME opens a lot of other industries/jobs.
 
If he's planning on doing the whole deal and going to the airlines, he may want to work off of this list of academic institutions with 14 CFR 61.160 Institutional Authority.
 
jordane93 said:
Is he set on going to aviation college? Did you tell him there are more economical ways of doing it? PM me and I can give my number to him. I got my degree in Economics and flew on the side. I graduated with the same ratings as kids that graduated from aviation schools but I wasn’t in debt up to my neck.
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Yes, but would you be able to get your ATP at 1,000 hours that way?
 
I thought about going here when I thought the airlines was the only option for a career in aviation...
 
As others touched on, suggest to him that he get his ratings outside of a university. If he can get his CFI prior to entering college he can...

1. Not have to pay out the nose for what amounts to being a name on a piece of paper that will have little to no effect on his future in aviation.
2. Allow him to work part time as a CFI or even a charter pilot, which will allow him to help pay for his college.
3. Allow him to build more flight time, possibly enough to qualify for an ATP without having to pay all that money to an over priced school.
 
That link to the EAA site has a lot of good info. You did not specifically ask for more options - but I would would also add Kent State in Ohio. I know several grads and they all had good feedback.
 
skier said:
It should be noted that I was told at college career fairs that Lockheed hires more computer programmers than aeronautical engineers. And a mechanical engineering degree is better suited to many jobs in the aerospace world than aeronautical engineering. There's very little a AE does that an ME doesn't. And ME opens a lot of other industries/jobs.
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Being a Lockheed Martin engineer myself (33 years here now), and having been an engineering hiring manager and done my share of college recruiting, let me add a comment or two.

Yes, it's true we hire more programmers than aero geeks. But good aero engineers are tough to find, and are usually identified as a critical need, whereas there are many many SW folks out there to pick from. A person with an aero degree from a top school and with good grades is a very attractive commodity.

There is a lot of overlap between aero and ME, but the things we use aero engineers for are things that the typical ME isn't trained to do. BUT, someone who's already earning an aero degree could probably tack on an ME as a second major without too much strain, and would then be a very hot property. Better yet, a BSME with an aero masters would be a very valuable ticket with a lot of versatility.


That being said, there is something pretty cool about walking the production line of an aircraft manufacturer.
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Ever been down the F-35 production line? MAJOR impressive!
 
labbadabba said:
Yes, but would you be able to get your ATP at 1,000 hours that way?
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It’s the difference of 500 hours and 200K in debt. For me, it was not worth saving 500 hours of instructing to be that much in debt. I got to the airline only a few months after my friends who attended Riddle and other aviation schools.
 
How about engineering? Any recommendations for a degree/field/college - already saw aeronautical suggested.
 
I looked at several on that list and settled on UND. If he has any questions about UND or the process in general feel free to pm me. Really enjoyed my first year here and already just few weeks away from completing the CFI course. Very easy to double major in tons of other fields in order to have options in case of a medical issue. A full university experience (hockey hockey hockey) and not nearly as expensive as some on this thread would have you believe. Anyway that's my 2 cents let me know if you want specifics.
 
overdrive148 said:
How about engineering? Any recommendations for a degree/field/college - already saw aeronautical suggested.
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Well, besides Aero, either ME or EE. If EE, study power or controls & machines. Big shortages in those areas.

Defense / aerospace industry. Most cannot be moved offshore, unlike commercial fields. Pays well, bleeding edge technology.

Can't go wrong with Ga Tech. Auburn, Clemson, UF, and Purdue are also good choices.
 
Is military an option?

Go to a local school with an AF ROTC program, get a degree is something legit (or not), get a little bit of flying time, say a PPL, commission and head to Pilot training. Have the Air Force pay for his education, fly with them for a few years and rack up some hours on their dime, get out completely or go to the Guard/Reserve and head to the airlines. Just another option.

Where is this young man located? Might help with his decision if there is more of a "local" option.

For god sakes, make sure he doesn't do what I did and get a BA and MA in History LOL.
 
He doesn’t want to go the military route, although we discussed that as an option to fund his dreams.
 
Problem with the so called "aviation" degree programs is that they don't really qualify you for anything. The airlines only require a degree, they don't care what it's in. Better to get a degree in something you'll enjoy if a piloting career doesn't work out for any reason. And if you're not in an aviation program, do the flying where it's cheaper.

Compared to a professional pilot program at an aviation school, engineering (even aero engineering) is "unrelated" in that it leads to a different career path.

FWIW, I started out at an aviation school (Parks College). Considered their professional pilot program, but it was flying combined with "aeronautical administration", and I knew I didn't want to be an administrator. Majored in aero engineering instead, while still learning to fly at the college. Stopped after getting my Private in my freshman year since I really didn't want to fly for a living, then transferred to Syracuse to finish my degree after a disagreement with the college dean in my junior year. My degree says BSAE but I've worked as an ME ever since graduation.
 
Yuuuge waste of money, go to a community college and get his RN, do his aviation training at a glider port, build time in a cheap taildragger, look into shotgunning hours
 
Jaybird180 said:
I'm helping a young man decide where he wants to go to school to become an airline pilot. I recommended that he find a 4-year program, filter the list down to his top 3-5 and then we talk details. I'd like some reasonable feedback on the following list of 8 with emphasis placed on the four with an Asterisk please.

Academy College
Embry Riddle * (haven't decided which campus)
Phoenix East *
Baltimore County *
Purdue
University of E Michigan
Santa Fe
Miami Dade College * (Homestead)
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If I wanted to make flying my career I would only consider programs that competed in the NIFA. A list of these colleges and universities may be found here:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Intercollegiate_Flying_Association
If the young man has any question about schools in the middle of the US, region 6 of NIFA, I will be happy to give him my 2 cents.
 
Delta State and Middle Tennessee State are 2 other good ones. Delta State is the cheapest in the country (because of location), and MTSU isn't far behind. DSU has 152/172s for private, DA-42s for ME, and a King Air C90. MTSU has DA-40s for private, Seminoles for ME, Arrows for complex, and a King Air 200.
 
At The Ohio State University a student can get a degree in Aviation, Aviation management, Aeronautical engineering, mechanical engineering, and just about any other damn thing. A student can learn learn just about any language, from Esperanto to Twi.
 
Briar Rabbit said:
If I wanted to make flying my career I would only consider programs that competed in the NIFA. A list of these colleges and universities may be found here:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Intercollegiate_Flying_Association
If the young man has any question about schools in the middle of the US, region 6 of NIFA, I will be happy to give him my 2 cents.
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Kinda limiting isn't it? I know many professional pilots, including myself, that learned thru different avenues than what you're recommending. Respect your opinion but there are other ways to learn.
 
mscard88 said:
Kinda limiting isn't it? I know many professional pilots, including myself, that learned thru different avenues than what you're recommending. Respect your opinion but there are other ways to learn.
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Yes I agree. But my thoughts go beyond the learning arena. The reason I would select a college that actively competes in NIFA contests is because several air lines and freight carries such as FedEx especially and others support and attend these contests. They recruit at the events and contacts made thru NIFA help get initial job interviews. Sometimes it is more important who you know than what you know. It is certainly not the only avenue but it does help!
 
I feel there a big risk and loss of money with these aviation colleges. The first being the professional pilot programs. What happens when you are now 30years old, and can’t get a first class medical. Or something else happens that you are unable to fly. Now what do you do for a job? The second most jobs in aviation pay crap salaries, and most of the other degrees offered with aviation in the title hold no value in the job markets. Really, what are you gonna do, go get a job with an airline with you aviation administration degree? Make 50k a year! Maybe go,out to podunk airport and be a manager there for 30k a year. I find that most people are fans of aviation. They have the big dreams and glimmer in thier eye. But once they work in it, they find that a lot of it is crap work with little upward movement and salaries that are mediocre.

But that’s just my opinion, I spent 20 years in aviation, everything from airlines to charter pilot. It had it’s good times, but mostly nothing really rewarding and salaries were nothing spectacular.
 
steingar said:
At The Ohio State University a student can get a degree in Aviation, Aviation management, Aeronautical engineering, mechanical engineering, and just about any other damn thing. A student can learn learn just about any language, from Esperanto to Twi.
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What's the ROI on knowing how to speak Twi?
 
TommyG said:
I feel there a big risk and loss of money with these aviation colleges. The first being the professional pilot programs. What happens when you are now 30years old, and can’t get a first class medical. Or something else happens that you are unable to fly. Now what do you do for a job? The second most jobs in aviation pay crap salaries, and most of the other degrees offered with aviation in the title hold no value in the job markets. Really, what are you gonna do, go get a job with an airline with you aviation administration degree? Make 50k a year! Maybe go,out to podunk airport and be a manager there for 30k a year. I find that most people are fans of aviation. They have the big dreams and glimmer in thier eye. But once they work in it, they find that a lot of it is crap work with little upward movement and salaries that are mediocre.

But that’s just my opinion, I spent 20 years in aviation, everything from airlines to charter pilot. It had it’s good times, but mostly nothing really rewarding and salaries were nothing spectacular.
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I am one of the guys that hold a Bachelor's degree in Aviation Administration and I work at a major international airport in the Northeast. It pays just about average, but I still make enough to live by myself. Most of my college friends who majored in aviation whether pro pilot or admin were able to secure aviation and airport jobs that pay decently, although not as high so I would not say that an aviation degree is completely useless. And I am pretty sure that a manager at a GA airport makes more that the amount you stated. Plus if I obtain airport certifications from AAAE (cheaper than obtaining pilot certificates & ratings), it would make me an attractive candidate to any airport in the U.S. whether an active GA airport or a large hub international airport.

On a side note, correct me if I am wrong, but I noticed that at least in the Northeast, airport operations jobs tend to pay very well if it's a medium or small hub commercial airport, a very active GA airport serving corporate jets, and/or airports that are operated by a private airport management company. Usually they are jobs which require a 4 year aviation degree and a couple years of experience. I saw one that starts off at 85K requiring only a 4 year aviation degree and 3 years of experience.
 
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steingar said:
At The Ohio State University a student can get a degree in Aviation, Aviation management, Aeronautical engineering, mechanical engineering, and just about any other damn thing. A student can learn learn just about any language, from Esperanto to Twi.
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Yeah, but then you'll have to go around telling everyone you go to/went to THE Ohio State Univerity. :)
 
What is "Baltimore County?" The U of Maryland Baltimore County doesn't have an aviation program to my knowledge. UMES (Eastern Shore) has an Aviation Sciences program and UMCP has Aerospace Engineering.

Phoenix East isn't a degree-granting institution.
 
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