Average pay for SWA $300k by 2020

Fuz16 said:
I am seeking advice in preparing to fly for a second career. I can retire in two years (from an education career) at the age of 47 with a defined benefit of approximately 135k a year. I have my PPl and am instrument rated and current. I am working on my SEL commercial and hope to finish my MEL commercial w/instrument privileges by Christmas. I have contimplated getting my CFI and building hours over the next two years to prepare for a second career. I am not sure if I want to spend 5-8 years at the regionals to make it to the majors, I believe the corporate/charter work is more appealing. I do love to fly and would enjoy a second career in aviation. Any advice???
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Go for it ! United just hired a guy that was 61 !
 
Thanks for the encouragement. I am also in the camp of maximum money maximum time off. As I get older it is much more about QOL than accumulating money for stuff. I appreciate your wisdom.
 
And I think I am the poorest guy on POA now.
These are a lot of big numbers.
 
Can someone live in the middle of nowhere and get a job like this?

4 or 5 years of the kind of pay you guys are talking about and I could be living large the rest of my life.
 
There are exceptions to every norm. Many A&P mechanics can't believe there are some making over $100k annually. There are lots of them, and I know one that owed the IRS $90k on his personal income tax this year, not sure what he made, but could guess.
 
cowman said:
Can someone live in the middle of nowhere and get a job like this?

4 or 5 years of the kind of pay you guys are talking about and I could be living large the rest of my life.
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Depends on access to a solid regional airport and willingness to travel. I've seen field engineers who were willing to put up with regular international travel make big money for their piggy bank. A number lived in the semi-boonies.

One did get stuck in Sweden for six months, though, with a broken product and a customer who wanted an on site rep during recertification. Poor guy. He came back with a tall blonde Swede and married her. LOL. Had to buy her a Mustang and teach her how to drive, though.

Sales engineers often do even better. You may have to sell your soul at the door to their department though. Haha. Or so I've heard.

Also have worked with engineers who were normal office engineers at first and had whatever family emergencies take them to other States, and the company chose to keep them on remotely. Two Directors who had that setup too. Decent internet and a solid phone line, was all that was required for those.
 
denverpilot said:
Also have worked with engineers who were normal office engineers at first and had whatever family emergencies take them to other States, and the company chose to keep them on remotely. Two Directors who had that setup too. Decent internet and a solid phone line, was all that was required for those.
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I've been through that setup. There was a short time when my income was > $200k and my monthly expenses was < $2k.

To set this kind of arrangement up:

a) Work in an office at first and establish yourself is invaluable. Be the best (or close to it) performer in your division or company
b) Start working from home more and more days per week, and prove that it works. Get to a situation that you really only go into the office once every month or so. Through that remain the top performer - hugely important.
c) Then tell your employer, what's the difference, you'd like to move somewhere else. If (b) worked out well, they won't have any objections.

This can get tricky if you do this internationally due to tax situations. Especially Canada. But domestically it's fine.
 
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cowman said:
Can someone live in the middle of nowhere and get a job like this?

4 or 5 years of the kind of pay you guys are talking about and I could be living large the rest of my life.
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Which are you referring to, engineer or airline?
 
Sluggo63 said:
I know you don't think his degree and what he flew are "average," but like we're trying to tell you, it is. That is the average military pilot. Believe it or not.

And flying the U2 is the epitome of "droning around multi engine." Just higher and in a much more uncomfortable suit. And I don't know how old you are, but a 4-year degree has been a requirement to be an AF pilot for quite some time now.
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Absurd reply if one considers the testing and background each u2 pilot goes through and then considers where they fly, the plane itself and its reputation for being difficult to control, etc. etc. you sound like you may have applied and been turned down.
 
cowman said:
Can someone live in the middle of nowhere and get a job like this?

4 or 5 years of the kind of pay you guys are talking about and I could be living large the rest of my life.
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mscard88 said:
Which are you referring to, engineer or airline?
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I was wondering that myself. As far as airline career, you can live anywhere you want. Hell, half my base commutes. Some as far away as Europe or Hawaii.
 
cowman said:
Airline... I will have to be starving before I work in a cubicle ever again.
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As been already mentioned, you can live anywhere in the world, as long as you make duty in. I commuted the 24 years I was with an airline. Some airlines have a commuter clause which helps, we did.
 
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SixPapaCharlie said:
And I think I am the poorest guy on POA now.
These are a lot of big numbers.
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Just like with everything else men claim on the internet, divide by 3, and that's a closer to reality figure.
 
You have a W2 from the airlines Edfred? Wow who knew. :rolleyes:
 
I am guessing also pilots don't work 40 hour weeks.
If I were to make $200/ hr, that would be $400,000 annually.
 
Brian/Bryan (I'm one of ignorant ones who doesn't know which is correct so I'll use both until informed), many variables factors enter into airline pay such as trip/duty rigs, per diem, overseas pay, holiday pay, clothing allowance, etc, besides pay rate. Most airline pilots don't work a 40 M-F 8-5 schedule, true. Your day can as short as a few hours or up to 16 hours, although with the new rules I don't think they can make you work up to 16 hour duty day ground time + flight time). You could work a couple productive days a week, or 6 days in a row, one day off, then 6 more etc. Pilots that fly overseas are an entirely different deal.
 
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mscard88 said:
Brian/Bryan (I'm one of ignorant ones who doesn't know which is correct so I'll use both until informed), many variables factors enter into airline pay such as trip/duty rigs, per diem, overseas pay, holiday pay, clothing allowance, etc, besides pay rate. Most airline pilots don't work a 40 M-F 8-5 schedule, true. Your day can as short as a few hours or up to 16 hours, although with the new rules I don't think they can make you work up to 16 hour duty day ground time + flight time). You could work a couple productive days a week, or 6 days in a row, one day off, then 6 more etc. Pilots that fly overseas are an entirely different deal.
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Yep. Two of my favorite trips are BOM and DEL. Three of those trips a month and there is your 90-ish hours. Each trip is technically four calendar days, but really you're only gone two full ones and five hours each on the first and second day. Gone about 58hrs with 32 being in the airplane. Heck, the combined flight time there and back is longer than the actual overnight.

Still, six days of work a month isn't too shabby.


Of course the other side of that coin is just getting the 5hrs per day. Takes 18 days to collect the same 90hrs for the month.
 
mscard88 said:
Brian/Bryan (I'm one of ignorant ones who doesn't know which is correct so I'll use both until informed), many variables factors enter into airline pay such as trip/duty rigs, per diem, overseas pay, holiday pay, clothing allowance, etc, besides pay rate. Most airline pilots don't work a 40 M-F 8-5 schedule, true. Your day can as short as a few hours or up to 16 hours, although with the new rules I don't think they can make you work up to 16 hour duty day ground time + flight time). You could work a couple productive days a week, or 6 days in a row, one day off, then 6 more etc. Pilots that fly overseas are an entirely different deal.
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Okay.

And Byron is fine.
 
Too late "6PC". Tried to be nice and call you by your first name but nooooooooooo..... ;)
 
15 an hour is a good footing for me here... What would I even do with that much income?

Step 1: Dig a money pit... With wings
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Absurd reply if one considers the testing and background each u2 pilot goes through and then considers where they fly, the plane itself and its reputation for being difficult to control, etc. etc. you sound like you may have applied and been turned down.
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Jimmy,

Both @Sluggo and I are USAF pilots and we're just trying to tell you the information regarding your acquaintance is dated. Furthermore, your understanding of the U-2 program and whatever elitism you attribute to the program is unfortunately a byproduct of laymen mythology from the days of the Cold War.

I have peers and co-workers who fly/flew the U-2. The reality is that it is a special flying program (like the B-2, AFSOC's NsA and other similar assignments) and there's certainly a quirky element to it as far as having a fun story to tell the grandkids (kinda like my BUFF days). But the program is neither highly desirable nor remarkably competitive when compared to fighter WIC or presidential VIP assignment applicants and the vetting process they go through. Considering the mythology surrounding the U-2, you're probably also of the belief that test pilot school is 'top stick school'. Well, it isn't, nor is it as competitive as people think it is. These days it's more of a right degrees, right airframe at the right time type of thing. I'm not saying it's not competitive, but relative to our small subset, there are other corners of the AF which are much more desired and competitive. There are three former U-2 pilots in my AETC UPT squadron alone (latter an assignment considered terminal to an AF so-called career when given as a non-command assignment during the second decade of an officer's tenure), to give you an idea of how mundane the assignment is in the aggregate.

As to the U-2, it's a lonely and uncomfortable job that wrecks havoc on your physiology. And there's very little yearly flying for your troubles (part of why it's not very desirable). Like everything else, it's a job the military has a mission for and people step up to the plate and do it. Yes, that glider has special flying characteristics that makes it unforgiving of ham-hands, but that is neither the first nor the last airplane the USAF will fly with unforgiving handling quals. You're not manually docking the Apollo lunar module back to the mothership here though.

No dog in the fight, just providing 2016 current info. No skin off my back if you prefer to reject my data point. It is the internet after all.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Absurd reply if one considers the testing and background each u2 pilot goes through and then considers where they fly, the plane itself and its reputation for being difficult to control, etc. etc. you sound like you may have applied and been turned down.
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Probably a fighter jock, none better than them.
 
hindsight2020 said:
Considering the mythology surrounding the U-2, you're probably also of the belief that test pilot school is 'top stick school'. Well, it isn't, nor is it as competitive as people think it is.
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Heck, I hear USNTPS will let almost anyone in :rofl:

Nauga,
who is joking...or is he...?
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Absurd reply if one considers the testing and background each u2 pilot goes through and then considers where they fly, the plane itself and its reputation for being difficult to control, etc. etc. you sound like you may have applied and been turned down.
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Did not apply. Did not get turned down. Like Hindsight said above, I'm not trying to disparage your pal's son or U-2 pilot's in general, but I know a few U-2 pilots, so my information is first-hand. The U-2 looks like it'd be cool to fly in the pattern. Also, driving the chase car. The mission, like HS2020 said is not what you read or hear about. The best stories my U-2 friends told were like the time they finally would get to altitude and settle in to listen to the book on tape they brought with them, hit play on the walkman, dead battery. Spent the next 9 hours staring straight ahead. They were very upfront that the checkout process was more about "is this guy going to be cool to hang out with/fly with" than actual stick and rudder skills. Don't get me wrong, there is a also a flight portion of the interview, and some people do not make the cut, but I'm guessing they more than likely failed the "don't be a tool at the club" portion rather than the "can he land on centerline" portion.

It is what it is. Air Force pilots, as with any population, is a bell curve of ability, etc. There will be "the average" and below and above. I get it. The fact is that there's a pretty small standard deviation. All are about the same in ability, etc. Maybe there are some different skill sets whether one goes heavies or fighters, etc. But it's all a pretty cookie cutter mold we're made out of.

GlennAB1 said:
Probably a fighter jock, none better than them.
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You're right, there are none better than the fighter jock! Sadly, I wasn't one of them. Just a lowly Tanker Guy trying to feed his wife and kids (also a bit of C-12 time and a four-year stint instructing in the T-37).

GlennAB1 said:
How many pilots are there in the Air Force? With only 20 Air Force pilots selected annually, I'd say it pretty competitive and elite.
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I think the more pertinent question is, how many apply each year? I think the answer would surprise you. And i don't know where you got your number, and I have no idea if you're right or wrong, but 20 actually seems high to me. Could be, though.
 
GlennAB1 said:
How many pilots are there in the Air Force? With only 20 Air Force pilots selected annually, I'd say it pretty competitive and elite.
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Like I said before, that's a relative measure. Elite signifies a) the best, not b) the least populous. The correlation is A to B; it's not a commutable relationship. You can't just suggest a small unit is elite only because of low volume endemic to its footprint. Our UPT washouts are also a small community. :rolleyes:

Look I'm not saying the place is a leper colony, I'm just saying their career briefs are not elite when compared to the rest of the CAF. By that proposed metric, UPT slots at any fighter Guard or Reserve unit are more competitive, based on how many more applications they get for just ONE slot per fiscal year, and those guys are generally off the street or enlisted.

nauga said:
Heck, I hear USNTPS will let almost anyone in :rofl:

Nauga,
who is joking...or is he...?
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LOL you tell me ;)
 
USNTPS? No way man! One flight, then a week of reports on that flight. :(
 
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SixPapaCharlie said:
I am guessing also pilots don't work 40 hour weeks.
If I were to make $200/ hr, that would be $400,000 annually.
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We get paid by the credit hour. Most airlines will have a minimum guarantee of somewhere between 75-85 credit hours/month. This is why most airline guys will say hourly rate * 1000 = annual salary (83.3 hours/month * 12 months = 1,000 hours for pay).

This credit hour has a very loose correlation to flight time. Very loose. There are a lot of equations to figure out what a trip will pay, not including overrides, etc.

As an example, for July, the last month I flew the line (in training now), I flew about 43 hours (block time), the trips were worth 76.5 credit hours (I actually got paid for 110 hours, due to some vacation that carried over into the month, and overrides, and extra pays.) But, 110 is a big month for me. That's unusual.

Getting paid as an airline pilot can be like a 400 level course in accounting.
 
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