Average of 72 hours to check ride

[Hank S]

I think I passed my ride at 60ish hours 5 years ago. I thought that was a great amount of training. One thing I've noticed since I've had my license is a lot of people waste so much time on the ground with the engine running and the Hobbs spinning. It's really unreal. I've seen people take 20 minutes to get the ATIS, call ground and taxi, then another 5 or so at the hold short line. It's just so much time wasting!

That certainly does not account for the national average increasing. My guess is the amount of content remains about the same but the idea now is that the practical test requires a substantial amount of knowledge to pass and many flight schools use a curriculum guide that has a set pace. So even the best students still need to take a certain amount of time before their "stage one check." So very few people even have a chance to move faster than the flight school will allow.

A student came in on an XC last Saturday, guided in to a spot on the ramp as I was getting out of my plane at the hangar. I opened the hangar doors, unloaded the plane, pulled the truck out of then hangar, pushed the plane in, closed and locked the hangar doors. Then Mr. Visitor shut down his 172.

What I. The world was he doing for so long, parked on the ramp, marhsaller gone away, at high idle??? Besides running up the Hobbs time and costing himself money???

 

[frfly172]

Years ago most of the instruction was given with the motor off,starting the engine and then discussing ground school info,is just a waste of time,also after the lesson ,the critique should be done after the aircraft is secured.

 

[Henning]

I think I figured out my issue with the number, they are using average, not mean. I would bet the mean is closer to 50.

 

[John Collins]

When I operated a part 61 flight school, we had a good number of students who finished their training and got their private in the 40's. Some key points that helped achieve this.

1) Our airport is non towered. No wait time for departure.
2) No touch and goes permitted. Students don't learn fast with touch and goes, it is a false efficiency.
3) Strict adherence to the syllabus. All instructors used the same, instructors were interchangeable.
4) Management of solo time to absolute minimum, students play and don't practice anything they don't like to do.
5) Encouraging three or more lessons per week, less time spent relearning
6) Financing, permitted regular flying without having to wait on finances, the interest paid was much less than the time spent relearning from lay offs of flying.

I don't oppose solo time, it is just that in so many cases the difference between a 45 hour private pilot and one with 55 or 65 hours is the amount of solo time. Students are much more productive with an instructor on board, constantly challenging them. I would rather the extra 10 or 20 hours of solo be as a certified pilot. They all seem to end up with 30 to 35 hours of dual. Also, ground time is important as the airplane is a terrible place to learn new concepts. It is a great place to have the already understood concept demonstrated and practiced.

Edit: also the syllabus is essential. If you don't have a plan to get to your certificate, you and your instructor will drift and not move towards a goal. Solo is one level of accomplishment and learning, obtaining your private pilot certificate is another. They all are merely steps on your path to learning about flying and flying safely. You should never stop learning, I know I constantly learn new things about flying and I am an old fogey.

 

[James331]

It's seems that most instructor miss the fueling part. Mine did, too. Still haven't had to fuel myself, but I'm confident I can ;-)

That's one reason my school used to rent dry, defaulting tanks to 1/4.

You ether give fuel away or you have to fuel again before you can go home.

By the time my guys were soloed they were quite good a calculating required fuel and fueling the aircraft.

 

[mkosmo]

That's one reason my school used to rent dry, defaulting tanks to 1/4.

You ether give fuel away or you have to fuel again before you can go home.

By the time my guys were soloed they were quite good a calculating required fuel and fueling the aircraft.

That's actually not a terribly bad idea, but what if mx issues led to a no-go after fueling?

 

[GLMS_NC]

72 hours is nuts. Should not take that long. Fly by the numbers focus on stick and rudder with simple avionics. When you get your PPL then learn the avionics stack you will fly.

With these numbers no wonder so many students drop out and do not finish.

 

[Henning]

72 hours is nuts. Should not take that long. Fly by the numbers focus on stick and rudder with simple avionics. When you get your PPL then learn the avionics stack you will fly.

With these numbers no wonder so many students drop out and do not finish.

That has more to do with the uselessness of GA. Most people who quit either after the intro flight because they can't afford to go further, after Solo because if you are doing it as a challenge to prove something to yourself, you have no need to go further, job accomplished, you are a pilot. The rest for the most part will continue on to get PP unless their finances change. The big quit is after that. If they didn't find some really useful, or attractive, benefit to GA, and most especially a spouse that dislikes it (this is a factor all along the process), then GA just gets dropped from their schedule and budget. There are very few people to whom you can sell GA to on cost effectiveness and practicality. It is hardly any of either. Not everybody 'loves flying', and if they can't use it for practical transport, then there is no sense in continuing.

 

[Rykymus]

I started taking lessons with no idea (and frankly, no expectation) of passing my medical. I wanted to learn how to fly, regardless of whether or not I would ever get to solo, let alone get my PPL. Between the process of the SI and the government shutdown, it took 4 months to get my medical. During that time I went through 3 instructors (1 left for a airline gig, one was a dude, and the last one was great) and changed from high-wing to low wing. (And ended up preferring the Warrior of the Skyhawk.) Although my first instructor said I was ready to solo by my 10th hr, because of the delay getting my medical, I had 36 hrs of dual when I soloed! I was flying an average of twice a week, and I didn't care if I was burning cash, I was just having so much fun. Right after I soloed, I ended up buying a 98 Archer, and after I got signed off to solo that, I pretty much ran amok, flying 3 days a week for several months, while my instructor was on a (preplanned) vacation. I probably covered every sq ft of my 25nm training area. I was signed off to land solo at 5 different airports, (2 of which were Class D) and was keeping my plane at my home drome, and flying the 15 min hop to my training airport. (Untowered) Sometimes, I'd just go up and fly around, doing nothing important, but always with FF. I really didn't care about the money, as I was having way too much fun. I had to do a medical flight test (for poor vision in left eye) and the inspector found issues with my plane, so that added another 3 weeks. By the time I took my checkride (1 year after starting) it was a breeze. 30 minutes worth of oral, and 60 in the air, and I was done. I have to say, I was very comfortable. Of course, by then, I had 76hrs of dual and 135hrs solo, with at least 500 landings.

I had told every instructor from the onset that I had no intention of trying to get it done quickly, or on the cheap. My plan was to pull every bit of knowledge I could from my instructors, and to be as competent as possible before I put anyone else's lives in my hands. Why? Because I knew damn well that I was going to fly that plane everywhere I could the moment I got my PPL. I got that ticket a year ago, and I've logged an additional 200 hours since then, and flown to at least 50 different airports.

It was all worth every minute and every penny. Getting the PPL was an amazing journey.

Next up, Instrument rating.

 

[Henning]

I started taking lessons with no idea (and frankly, no expectation) of passing my medical. I wanted to learn how to fly, regardless of whether or not I would ever get to solo, let alone get my PPL. Between the process of the SI and the government shutdown, it took 4 months to get my medical. During that time I went through 3 instructors (1 left for a airline gig, one was a dude, and the last one was great) and changed from high-wing to low wing. (And ended up preferring the Warrior of the Skyhawk.) Although my first instructor said I was ready to solo by my 10th hr, because of the delay getting my medical, I had 36 hrs of dual when I soloed! I was flying an average of twice a week, and I didn't care if I was burning cash, I was just having so much fun. Right after I soloed, I ended up buying a 98 Archer, and after I got signed off to solo that, I pretty much ran amok, flying 3 days a week for several months, while my instructor was on a (preplanned) vacation. I probably covered every sq ft of my 25nm training area. I was signed off to land solo at 5 different airports, (2 of which were Class D) and was keeping my plane at my home drome, and flying the 15 min hop to my training airport. (Untowered) Sometimes, I'd just go up and fly around, doing nothing important, but always with FF. I really didn't care about the money, as I was having way too much fun. I had to do a medical flight test (for poor vision in left eye) and the inspector found issues with my plane, so that added another 3 weeks. By the time I took my checkride (1 year after starting) it was a breeze. 30 minutes worth of oral, and 60 in the air, and I was done. I have to say, I was very comfortable. Of course, by then, I had 76hrs of dual and 135hrs solo, with at least 500 landings.

I had told every instructor from the onset that I had no intention of trying to get it done quickly, or on the cheap. My plan was to pull every bit of knowledge I could from my instructors, and to be as competent as possible before I put anyone else's lives in my hands. Why? Because I knew damn well that I was going to fly that plane everywhere I could the moment I got my PPL. I got that ticket a year ago, and I've logged an additional 200 hours since then, and flown to at least 50 different airports.

It was all worth every minute and every penny. Getting the PPL was an amazing journey.

Next up, Instrument rating.

Right, and you're the type of person that brings the average to 72, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with the way you went about it. But for every person like you, there are 50 foreign students who are within 10 hrs of minimums at a 141 school that get the same rating. My bet is the mean time to PP is ~50hrs.

 

[Kiddo's Driver]

You made me dig out my logs.
1st flight 8/24/1990
1st solo 10/13/1990, 11 hours
Private Pilot 12/12/1990, 56.5 hours. 22.6 solo, 10.9 of that was solo cross country. 33.9 dual. 3.1 night. 207 landings.

Looks like I was about right on my solo. I delayed my written probably because of mid term exams. We went back and did some extra dual before the check ride to refresh.