AV-web question re: ATC

woodstock

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my cousin, who is ATC, forwarded to me something he saw on Av-web. not the link, just the query:

"What do you think about the (allegedly?) forthcoming controller crisis?"

anyone know what the heck he is talking about? I'm assuming he means that pretty soon a bunch of folks are going to be up for retirement, but I'm not sure?
 
Will there or won't there be a shortage of controllers? The FAA is walking a new tightrope under a stricter budget, and NATCA believes trouble is on the horizon. What do you think?

is the question. still - is this due to retirements, are they cutting salaries or just not budgeting for new ones, etc.
 
woodstock said:
my cousin, who is ATC, forwarded to me something he saw on Av-web. not the link, just the query:

"What do you think about the (allegedly?) forthcoming controller crisis?"

anyone know what the heck he is talking about? I'm assuming he means that pretty soon a bunch of folks are going to be up for retirement, but I'm not sure?

Depending on who you talk to, there is an impending crisis. A large number of controllers are eligible for retirement in the coming few years, the FAA has been slow at hiring replacements (it takes some time to become fully qualified as a controller), and air traffic is increasing. There is also the spector of privatization and user fees.

Most likely, that's what the discussion is about..... Ahve you looked at AvWeb to see if there is a recent article?
 
woodstock said:
my cousin, who is ATC, forwarded to me something he saw on Av-web. not the link, just the query:

"What do you think about the (allegedly?) forthcoming controller crisis?"

anyone know what the heck he is talking about? I'm assuming he means that pretty soon a bunch of folks are going to be up for retirement, but I'm not sure?
www.fairfaa.com

http://www.natca.org/mediacenter/private_ads.msp

http://www.hpnpilot1200.org/NATCA.mov

Facilities are understaffed, a huge wave of controllers are up for retirement soon and new-hire pay is going to be rediculously low. The FAA doesn't want to pay for higher salaries, and better contracts and therefore facilities are very understaffed, with increased traffic/workload causing many safety concerns.

Trouble is already is on the horizon and last week NATCA called for mediation to help build a good contract with the FAA. I'll post something longer later in the day when I have more time to write out my thoughts. I follow this stuff pretty closely.

Jason
 
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Last I heard a lot was being outsourced to India!

Baron 322KS descent to 2,000; expect vectas to runway 15; to confim you need further instructions in English, press 1, for .... press 2, etc.:rofl:
 
Recently a post on another board mentioned that a western-US AFSS now "treats" pilots waiting on 'hold' to recorded advertisements. Will this be the wave of the FAA's cash-strapped future?

I don't mind ads on 'hold'. But I'll draw the line the day the briefer tells me,

"This winds aloft forecast has been brought to you by the new Lincoln Zephyr. I'll have the Papa John's Pizza Pireps for you in just a moment, but first: There is a convective sigmet all along your route of flight. But I have good news. I just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance ..." :rolleyes:
-- Pilawt
 
Odd you bring that up today....I attended a birthday party last night for a friend who is retired ATC (ZDC). There were several other retired ATC guys there. There are a lot of retirements coming up, and the FAA doesn't seem to be very proactive in ensuring that there are sufficient back fills to replace the ranks.

Situations like this are prime candidates for outsourcing. The union contracts are coming up for renewal..and just like the airlines...I'm sure there will be lots of concessions on the table. It's anybody's guess at this point.

Greg
182RG
 
Pilawt said:
Recently a post on another board mentioned that a western-US AFSS now "treats" pilots waiting on 'hold' to recorded advertisements. Will this be the wave of the FAA's cash-strapped future?

I don't mind ads on 'hold'. But I'll draw the line the day the briefer tells me,

"This winds aloft forecast has been brought to you by the new Lincoln Zephyr. I'll have the Papa John's Pizza Pireps for you in just a moment, but first: There is a convective sigmet all along your route of flight. But I have good news. I just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance ..." :rolleyes:

-- Pilawt
Ooooooo, my sides are splitting!!!
 
HPNPilot1200 said:
Facilities are understaffed,
Depends on who you talk to. NATCA says so, FAA says not. Independent verification is lacking, but regardless of what you think of the conclusions in the report, the facts on staffing levels and assignment procedures in the report on the NY Tracon are worth reading. If you don't want to read the whole report, you can skim the executive summary.
 
Ron Levy said:
Depends on who you talk to. NATCA says so, FAA says not. Independent verification is lacking, but regardless of what you think of the conclusions in the report, the facts on staffing levels and assignment procedures in the report on the NY Tracon are worth reading. If you don't want to read the whole report, you can skim the executive summary.
Thanks for the links, and I've already previously read them. I visited N90 last summer and talked to the controllers about the situation and I've made my own conclusions by gathering information from NATCA, the FAA, and the controllers themselves. I'm also going out to N90 again as well as ZNY in Ronkonkoma when I find some time to drive out to LI. Maybe the FAA should start hiring more controllers and getting new students trained which would solve their added expense of paying controllers overtime. The report is simply a report, and doesn't IMO state a real fix to the problem. Those reports that are written without solutions to the problem simply don't solve much at all.

ZTL is one of the most understaffed facilities and some of Don Brown's first hand accounts can directly prove that. Obviously the FAA says they are not because they don't want to have to increase controller salaries and hire more controllers. Remember? The FAA is broke....so they say.

You have to pick and choose the statements you feel are true and which are false. The FAA can write a 500 page report, but many times their is no practical value of such a report. I think if you personally visit the facility and see for yourself, you can make a better conclusion on the staffing crisis ATC facilities across the United States are facing. NATCA and the FAA are going to say completely opposite things, but there is some truth held within some of it. Here's a NATCA press release from August 05' about the staffing crisis in ZOA which wasn't simply "made up":

NATCA Press Release said:
FREMONT, Calif. – The critical condition of air traffic controller staffing levels at Oakland Air Route Traffic Control Center was exposed in a dramatic and unsafe way early this morning when the Federal Aviation Administration was forced to combine two busy sectors that handle trans-oceanic traffic due to lack of staffing. The resulting traffic crush left one air traffic controller in charge of 50 planes, most of them Boeing 747s and DC-10s en route to Asia. This is twice the normal traffic load controllers are accustomed to handling on separate sectors that the FAA is supposed to staff with multiple personnel.

At 5 a.m. Pacific Daylight Time, the controller told a co-worker in an adjacent part of the facility that she was told there was not another controller coming in to relieve her until 6 a.m. Her sector was full of outstanding and unprocessed messages that needed to be relayed to oceanic flights. When she asked for help, the FAA supervisor was not in the control room. When the supervisor finally showed up, he told the controller there was nobody to open up a second sector. At 6 a.m., the combined sector was finally split when another controller came in for a regular shift. Click here for the full story...
Personally I don't think the FAA is broke nor that they are doing much to help rectify the problem besides trying to impose user fees. The FAA IMHO to try and take the easy way out and try and skew all the reports possible. ...and the 11 controllers that were fired at N90 for not checking a box on their medical form were also re-hired after months of court battles:

John Carr said:
The FAA ate about a quarter million dollars in lost productivity, another quarter million or so in back pay owed and another quarter million in lost productivity for their legal team. They had a side order of shame and embarrassment for having gone zero-for-twelve on their vaunted New York TRACON cases, along with a half dish of crow and a bowl of public humiliation they have only now just started nibbling at. They also ordered a heaping helping of Congressional hearings into their ineptitude, but that will be served later.
...this is quite surprising too. Next time I hear a "what was that!?!" from Cleveland TRACON, I know a controller just got a drop of water on his/her neck.

John Carr said:
Remember, this is the FAA that discovered a leak in the roof at the Cleveland TRACON and....instead of fixing the roof.....decided to install gutters and a downspout IN THE TRACON that ran into a trashcan instead! Not a temporary fix, mind you, but real gutters and downspouts. The only thing missing was the leaf guards. I swear, you can't make this stuff up and if it wasn't so sad it would be damn good comedy.
It's tough to assess when much of the information out there is biased. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I have shared most of mine, and I am very open to reading other peoples comments/opinions too. It's an individual conclusion that is hard to make, and is different in everyone's own perspective.

Respectfully,
Jason

P.S. This wasn't all in responce to your [neutral] post, Ron. I thank you for posting those links for others to read and you brought up a major point in the whole dilema. I was simply following up to my previous post stating that I would chime in with a longer, more in depth post. Thanks! :D
 
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Why is NATCA predicting a staffing crisis?

In 1981 President Reagan fired ~11K controllers.

Controllers are eligible for retirement after 20 years, if they are 50 years old, or after 25 years at any age.

Controllers must retire by age 56.

1981+20=2001, 1981+25=2006.

The FAA hired quite a few controllers in the first few years after the strike. It is these same controllers that are becoming elegible for retirement. In some cases they are being forced to retire. Are we all retiring at the minimum? No, but the point is, we could, the minimum time is past and it takes several years to train new controllers to the journeyman level.

This is what NATCA has been telling the FAA for years. Is it real? You decide.
 
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