AV-30-C Question

SoCal 182 Driver

SoCal 182 Driver

Cleared for Takeoff
Joined
Sep 11, 2019
Messages
1,072
Display Name
Display name:
SoCal 182 Driver
Friends - I'm considering the installation of two AV-30-Cs in my C182. Currently I have an S-Tec 60 autopilot, driven by an S-Tec DG (when in heading mode).

The AV-30-C installation manual states:

AV-30-C install pic.jpg

If I'm reading this correctly, this says that I cannot replace my S-Tec DG with an AV-30-C, because it drives my S-Tec 60 autopilot in "heading" mode. But here's my question -- Now that I'm replacing the S-Tec autopilot, does removing the DG and replacing with an AV-30-C run afoul of this section of the installation manual? I'm tending to think it would not run afoul of the manual, because the S-Tec DG would no longer be driving the autopilot.

I'd appreciate hearing thoughts and comments.

Thanks.
 
Step 1, replace a/p that relies on DG
Step 2, replace DG
 
For what it's worth, uAvionix will hopefully be releasing the certified version of the autopilot adapter in Q1 or Q2 2022 (FAA delays, apparently, so who knows if they'll be able to hit that target!). I've been extremely happy with my AV30C Attitude Indicator, and now that they've worked out the shortcomings of the DG (added a magnetometer), I'll be installing the DG in the spring, and eliminating my vacuum system.
 
Darryl Snover said:
For what it's worth, uAvionix will hopefully be releasing the certified version of the autopilot adapter in Q1 or Q2 2022 (FAA delays, apparently, so who knows if they'll be able to hit that target!). I've been extremely happy with my AV30C Attitude Indicator, and now that they've worked out the shortcomings of the DG (added a magnetometer), I'll be installing the DG in the spring, and eliminating my vacuum system.
Click to expand...

Darryl - My understanding is that the autopilot adapter is only necessary for legacy (non-digital) autopilots, and that the DG will drive current autopilots such as the AeroCruze 100 without the necessity of having the adapter. uAvionix has been promising the adapter for a very long time. It'll be interesting to see if they get it approved any time soon.

As to the magnetometer, on another forum someone wrote that the hardware and software are there, but that it can't be used yet. That didn't make any sense to me. Can you shed some light on the magnetometer issue?
 
They released the 002 version of the software a few weeks ago. The older units can be sent in at no charge (I think other than shipping) to enable the internal magnetometer. I've been hearing very good things so far.
 
Darryl Snover said:
They released the 002 version of the software a few weeks ago. The older units can be sent in at no charge (I think other than shipping) to enable the internal magnetometer. I've been hearing very good things so far.
Click to expand...

Is it your understanding that they're shipping the new units with the magnetometer and the upgraded software, but that we can't use it yet?
 
4 day turn around for the upgrade, however the firmware no longer supports waypoint info from my Garmin gps. Support has told me that they know and are working on it.
 
We are installing a pair of AV-30Cs right now that were purchased in October when uAvionics had them on special sale price. I think they're still on sale. I'm going to be disappointed if I have to take them out of the plane right after install for a significant update.
 
farangutan said:
We are installing a pair of AV-30Cs right now that were purchased in October when uAvionics had them on special sale price. I think they're still on sale. I'm going to be disappointed if I have to take them out of the plane right after install for a significant update.
Click to expand...
They take like 5-10 mins to remove. You can build a harness to update them at home
 
SoCal 182 Driver said:
Darryl - My understanding is that the autopilot adapter is only necessary for legacy (non-digital) autopilots, and that the DG will drive current autopilots such as the AeroCruze 100 without the necessity of having the adapter. uAvionix has been promising the adapter for a very long time. It'll be interesting to see if they get it approved any time soon.
Click to expand...

The AV-30 cannot be used to provide any inputs to an autopilot unless something radical changed but I would've expected a huge announcement. They've been promising this feature for two years now... https://uavionix.com/faq-items/will-the-initial-stc-have-autopilot-compatibility/
 
I installed an AV-30C as my Attitude Indicator and a G5 as my HSI. The AV-30C seems to have some precession issues and can not be connected to a magnetometer. It also does not integrate with my Stec-50 w/ Alt hold. There is also no vertical guidance for ILS's on the AV 30. The 2 AV-30's also don't interconnect should u want to have the heading set on the Attitude Indicator. For those reasons is why I did the G5 for the HSI
 
Mxfarm said:
Doesn’t appear AV-30 has a glideslope - correct?
Click to expand...

The AV-30 is a directional gyro replacement, not an HSI or an indicator. The AV-30 is limited in features if you’re trying to interface with other things so consider future plans before purchase. You may be better off with one of Garmin’s offerings.
 
mondtster said:
The AV-30 is a directional gyro replacement, not an HSI or an indicator. The AV-30 is limited in features if you’re trying to interface with other things so consider future plans before purchase. You may be better off with one of Garmin’s offerings.
Click to expand...

Slight clarification on this: The AV30-C has GPS HSI functionality, but it is not IFR approved (yet).

The new revision implements a magnetometer, which in combination with the new firmware, has had very positive reports of resolving the DG drift problem.
 
Darryl Snover said:
The AV30-C has GPS HSI functionality, but it is not IFR approved (yet).
Click to expand...
Unless new hardware is involved, I don't think it will ever. It relies on RS232 input for GPS and to the best of my knowledge, no GPS RS232 indicator has ever been approved for IFR approaches.
 
Darryl Snover said:
Slight clarification on this: The AV30-C has GPS HSI functionality, but it is not IFR approved (yet).
Click to expand...

I would not consider it of value, nor personally call it an "HSI". It displays ground track from the GPS, not a magnetic direction.
 
asicer said:
Unless new hardware is involved, I don't think it will ever. It relies on RS232 input for GPS and to the best of my knowledge, no GPS RS232 indicator has ever been approved for IFR approaches.
Click to expand...

In my opinion, the AV-30 is a VFR toy at best. There are basically no inputs or outputs on this thing to make it of much value if someone is looking to do more than replace a mechanical directional gyro.

That said, I'm currently installing two of them in an aircraft that has a dying DG. It will get us by for now, but I see a GI275 replacing it in the future once the aircraft has an IFR GPS installed.
 
Why not dual G5s to act as primary CDIs as well as all-in-one displays for flight data? They will integrate with IFR GPS as well as most legacy APs.
 
chemgeek said:
Why not dual G5s to act as primary CDIs as well as all-in-one displays for flight data? They will integrate with IFR GPS as well as most legacy APs.
Click to expand...

That's the new current plan!
 
chemgeek said:
Why not dual G5s to act as primary CDIs as well as all-in-one displays for flight data? They will integrate with IFR GPS as well as most legacy APs.
Click to expand...
That's what I did. I didn't want to spend the extra on two GI275's.

I was told, by a person at Uavionix, that the av30 will NEVER be approved for IFR use.
 
Wagondriver said:
I was told, by a person at Uavionix, that the av30 will NEVER be approved for IFR use.
Click to expand...
I think this person means the CDI function will never be approved for IFR use. As I said in post #17, I'm inclined to agree. However as @chemgeek said in post #26, the CDI function isn't everything that this thing does.
 
Interestingly, just this afternoon I got a survey request from uAvionix asking about the features I thought should be included in the AV-30-C in the future. That sort of refutes the comment above about the AV-30-C not being updated or improved in the future.

Too little, too late. I ordered the G5s about an hour before the uAvionix email came in. :yes:
 
SoCal 182 Driver said:
Interestingly, just this afternoon I got a survey request from uAvionix asking about the features I thought should be included in the AV-30-C in the future. That sort of refutes the comment above about the AV-30-C not being updated or improved in the future.
Click to expand...

I think it would take a major redesign to make it into a real competitor for something like the G5 or GI275, which is what I perceive that people desire. I don't see that happening, but I could be wrong. If they did something like that I think it would be better if they called it something different to help keep the confusion to a minimum.

The first thing I think uAvionix should work on is their website to provide an accurate description of what the AV-30 is, and is not.

I think you'll be happier with the G5s anyway.
 
Having flown with both the AV-30 and the G5, I prefer the AV30, at least for the attitude indicator. I prefer the round instrument to maintain the look of the panel, and the AV30 hits that mark perfectly. Plus, any A&P can install in a few hours - no need to wait for a Garmin shop. Now, if the GI275 was more price competitive with the G5, I'd go with one of those to replace my DG, but it's not.

I also like supporting the 'underdog', as competition in the market is good.
 
Darryl Snover said:
Plus, any A&P can install in a few hours - no need to wait for a Garmin shop.
Click to expand...

The G5 is now sold over the counter, and my understanding is that it can be installed by any A&P.

I also like supporting the 'underdog', as competition in the market is good.
Click to expand...

100% agree. I have been following the development of the AV-30 since long before uAvionix acquired the company. It’s unfortunate that it just doesn’t have the features I want at this moment in time. Otherwise, like you, I would prefer to support the underdog. But in this case, I’m ready to go, and the AV-30 just doesn’t have the feature set that I want.
 
Darryl Snover said:
Having flown with both the AV-30 and the G5, I prefer the AV30, at least for the attitude indicator. I prefer the round instrument to maintain the look of the panel, and the AV30 hits that mark perfectly. Plus, any A&P can install in a few hours - no need to wait for a Garmin shop. Now, if the GI275 was more price competitive with the G5, I'd go with one of those to replace my DG, but it's not.

I also like supporting the 'underdog', as competition in the market is good.
Click to expand...

The G5, as just a stand-alone attitude indicator, is very simple to install. It can be purchased over the counter (Aircraft Spruce sells them) and requires only a power and ground wire, pitot/static connections and a dash-mounted GPS antenna. Easy to install in less than 10 hours.
 
Yesterday I flew for the first time after we upgraded our Grumman Traveler with dual AV-30s. They are easy to use and lateral nav information from our Garmin 430w synced up just fine.
My weird problem is the fact that I'm too tall for the lower AV-30 installed in place of the DG. I sit too tall to see the top of the heading so I have to slouch or bend over to read the current heading..
The panels are lower on the AA5s compared to the Cessna 172s I trained in. I'm 6'0" tall for reference.
 
chemgeek said:
Why not dual G5s to act as primary CDIs as well as all-in-one displays for flight data? They will integrate with IFR GPS as well as most legacy APs.
Click to expand...
Are you saying that the G5 in AI configuration can now give attitude inputs to an autopilot, such as the Century legacy autopilots. This would be new if true. The G5 in HSI configuration does already supply proper inputs.
 
farangutan said:
... I sit too tall to see the top of the heading so I have to slouch or bend over to read the current heading...
Click to expand...

Can't you can display the heading in any of the configurable "boxes"? Put it in one that you can see. You can also display heading on the AI.
 
Silvaire said:
Can't you can display the heading in any of the configurable "boxes"? Put it in one that you can see. You can also display heading on the AI.
Click to expand...

Yes, and did end up doing that. Very easy and quick to cycle through other useful info to display too. Just thought it was worth mentioning that I have to bend over to see the top of the instrument to see the heading. I should have tried the arc view too. Next time.
 
MajorTurbulence said:
Are you saying that the G5 in AI configuration can now give attitude inputs to an autopilot, such as the Century legacy autopilots. This would be new if true. The G5 in HSI configuration does already supply proper inputs.
Click to expand...

You're correct, the G5 ADI doesn't currently provide attitude information to legacy autopilots. The person who made that statement did so in err.
 
Perhaps there is hope after all? They finally seem to be catching up, at least on the experimental side: https://uavionix.com/uavionix-annou...=mQEDdza6qT9yszzePzdMEhwUnRnlmwiuCIJkd9A7F3A=

uAvionix announces digital autopilot and external magnetometer support for AV-30-E panel displays
03/21/22|Press Release
Bigfork, Montana – March 21, 2022 – uAvionix is pleased to announce the AV-30-E multimode indicator now includes digital autopilot and external magnetometer interface capabilities.

With the ability to control autopilot heading, altitude, and vertical speed from its intuitive user interface, the AV-30-E provides a highly integrated and capable replacement for traditional attitude indicators and directional gyro instruments. Simplified installation is accomplished by supporting modern, digital autopilots. No expensive interface adapters are required. A no-cost software upgrade for the non-certified AV-30-E is available now, featuring support for the following autopilots:

TruTrak.jpg


  • TruTrak Vizion 385 and Vizion PMA
  • BendixKing xCruze 100 and AeroCruze 100
Additional digital autopilots, including the Trio Pro Pilot, are undergoing integration testing. Certification of the autopilot interface capabilities, for the AV-30-C, is underway. Development of interface adapters for analog autopilots continues, building on the core autopilot interface support now introduced.

In addition to autopilot interface capabilities, the AV-30 series will soon gain support for an external magnetometer, the uAvionix AV-Mag. Designed with a best-in-class magnetic sensor, the AV-Mag allows for increased performance and decreased workload through zero-drift magnetically slaved DG operation. More AV-Mag information will be made available shortly. Certified units, and corresponding software updates, will follow.

About uAvionix Corporation

uAvionix was founded in 2015 with the mission of bringing safety solutions to the unmanned aviation industry in order to aid in the integration of Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS) into the National Airspace System (NAS). A fundamental principle of that mission is to provide solutions that allow all airspace users a common situational awareness of the airspace. Through the evolution of our company, we pioneered and now offer low SWaP TSO certified and uncertified ADS-B and GPS solutions for General Aviation (GA), Airport Surface Vehicles and the UAS markets. Based in Bigfork, MT and Leesburg, VA, uAvionix consists of an unparalleled engineering and management team with a unique combination of experience within avionics, surveillance, airport services, UAS aircraft development, radio frequency (RF), and semiconductor industries. The entire leadership team consists of pilots of fixed wing, rotary wing, and UAS aircraft. uAvionix is owned by DC Capital Partners.

To learn more about uAvionix manned and unmanned products, please visit: www.uavionix.com

Follow uAvionix on Twitter: www.twitter.com/uAvionix

Follow uAvionix on Facebook: www.facebook.com/uavionix/

uAvionix Media Contact:

squawk@uavionix.com


SoCal 182 Driver said:
Friends - I'm considering the installation of two AV-30-Cs in my C182. Currently I have an S-Tec 60 autopilot, driven by an S-Tec DG (when in heading mode).

The AV-30-C installation manual states:

View attachment 102276

If I'm reading this correctly, this says that I cannot replace my S-Tec DG with an AV-30-C, because it drives my S-Tec 60 autopilot in "heading" mode. But here's my question -- Now that I'm replacing the S-Tec autopilot, does removing the DG and replacing with an AV-30-C run afoul of this section of the installation manual? I'm tending to think it would not run afoul of the manual, because the S-Tec DG would no longer be driving the autopilot.

I'd appreciate hearing thoughts and comments.

Thanks.
Click to expand...
 
I can't help but think this could be good tidings for legacy attitude-based autopilot owners (i.e. Altimatic/Century). I realize this particular product seems to work with digital autopilots only at present, but converter boxes wouldn't be that hard to build.

Hopefully those of us who have been holding on will be rewarded one of these days with an inexpensive digital attitude indicator with pickoffs for those old autopilots. All I need is digital attitude to replace my vacuum ADI... and I can be done with vacuum pumps and plumbing forever.

Seems like it's been right around the corner for awhile now...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top