Attempted Atlanta to Los Angeles, but the Yankee only made it to Phoenix

MarkH

MarkH

Line Up and Wait
Joined
Oct 8, 2018
Messages
788
Location
Under the SFRA
Display Name
Display name:
MarkH
As some of you know, I recently accepted a job in Lancaster, CA, and my moving plan was to pack everything I can in my car, sell everything else, ship the car and fly my Yankee from KHMP (just south of Atlanta) to KWJF (on the north side of LA county). Anyone who knows these areas would say that KHMP is not really Atlanta, and KWJF is not really LA. So if you planned to post that, I just saved you some typing effort, you are welcome.

It started Sunday, when I fueled up and discovered that the self service pumps at KHMP were having issues. I was able to fill up thanks to the great people who work in the FBO, and took off headed to KLLQ in Monticello, AR. I was a little nervous because my fuel burn was a little higher than planned, but I still landed with 25 minutes of reserve (My plan had 45 minutes of reserve baked it).

Refueled and flew to KRPH in Graham, TX. I planned a third leg for my first day, but I was tired, so I called it a night.

The next morning I flew to KINK in Wink,TX, it is a cool little airport in the middle of nowhere with a family run FBO. I stayed and talked for longer than I likely should have, and then flew to KDMN (Deming, NM).

In Deming is where my trip got interesting. I wanted to try for a third leg because I had only flown 2 legs the day before, but while brefing my next leg I had issues with my ipad, my computer and my planning. Finally, I decided to push off and walked to my plane only to realize that I had not checked about curfew times in Phoenix. That minor detail forced me to put the pieces together and realize I was tired. So I scrapped the flight and went to a hotel.

The next morning, during preflight, I found a hole in my spinner. It had cracked and thrown a chunk. Deming did not have a mechanic on the field, but a couple local crop duster mechanics were kind enough to look at my plane and advised me to take the spinner off, and watch the temps closely. Leaving Deming, NM without a spinner went OK. The temps ran a little hot, but if I throttled back I could cool the engine down and it ran fine once I got to a cruising altitude. So I flew it to A39 (Ak Chin, AZ).

I refueled in Ak Chin, and took off for my last leg, on climb out the temps rose quickly, and when I was about 2000ft above the ground, it was almost in the red. I leveled off, but I could not get it to cool down. Fortunately, I never saw a drop in oil pressure, but unable to lower the temps, I landed at KBXK (Buckeye, AZ). I decided to stay the night and try for cooler air in the morning, but at 7am it was 95 degrees. I left the plane with the shop on the field, rented a car and I am working with the mechanic on the field to get a new spinner installed.

I will be where I need to be for the first day of my job, but my plane is 350nm away. I hate that, but it seemed better to be dealing with a working plane 350nm away than a wrecked plane 200nm away. I don't really know when or how I will get it back, but if I can find the parts to fix it I will figure out a way to fly it to my new home.

At least I have satisfied my long cross country requirement for a CPL.
 
Last edited:
I thought some of ya'll might enjoy a recap of my latest cross country. I've attached pictures of the busted spinner and the plane without a nose.
 

Attachments

  • bustedspinner.jpg
    bustedspinner.jpg
    31.9 KB · Views: 314
  • yankeenospinner.jpg
    yankeenospinner.jpg
    113.3 KB · Views: 309
MarkH said:
As some of you know, I recently accepted a job in Lancaster, CA, and my moving plan was to pack everything I can in my car, sell everything else, ship the car and fly my Yankee from KHMP (just south of Atlanta) to KWJF (on the north side of LA county). Anyone who knows these areas would say that KHMP is not really Atlanta, and KWJF is not really LA. So if you planned to post that, I just saved you some typing effort, you are welcome.

It started Sunday, when I fueled up and discovered that the self service pumps at KHMP were having issues. I was able to fill up thanks to the great people who work in the FBO, and took off headed to KLLQ in Monticello, AR. I was a little nervous because my fuel burn was a little higher than planned, but I still landed with 25 minutes of reserve (My plan had 45 minutes of reserve baked it).

Refueled and flew to KRPH in Graham, TX. I planned a third leg for my first day, but I was tired, so I called it a night.

The next morning I flew to KINK in Wink,TX, it is a cool little airport in the middle of nowhere with a family run FBO. I stayed and talked for longer than I likely should have, and then flew to KDMN (Deming, NM).

In Deming is where my trip got interesting. I wanted to try for a third leg because I had only flown 2 legs the day before, but while brefing my next leg I had issues with my ipad, my computer and my planning. Finally, I decided to push off and walked to my plane only to realize that I had not checked about curfew times in Phoenix. That minor detail forced me to put the pieces together and realize I was tired. So I scrapped the flight and went to a hotel.

The next morning, during preflight, I found a hole in my spinner. It had cracked and thrown a chunk. Deming did not have a mechanic on the field, but a couple local crop duster mechanics were kind enough to look at my plane and advised me to take the spinner off, and watch the temps closely. Leaving Deming, NM without a spinner went OK. The temps ran a little hot, but if I throttled back I could cool the engine down and it ran fine once I got to a cruising altitude. So I flew it to A39 (Ak Chin, AZ).

I refueled in Ak Chin, and took off for my last leg, on climb out the temps rose quickly, and when I was about 2000ft above the ground, it was almost in the red. I leveled off, but I could not get it to cool down. Fortunately, I never saw a drop in oil pressure, but unable to lower the temps, I landed at KBXK (Buckeye, AZ). I decided to stay the night and try for cooler air in the morning, but at 7am it was 95 degrees. I left the plane with the shop on the field, rented a car and I am working with the mechanic on the field to get a new spinner installed.

I will be where I need to be for the first day of my job, but my plane is 350nm away. I hate that, but it seemed better to be dealing with a working plane 350nm away than a wrecked plane 200nm away. I don't really know when or how I will get it back, but if I can find the parts to fix it I will figure out a way to fly it to my new home.

At least I have satisfied my long cross country requirement for a CPL.
Click to expand...

I feel your pain. My plane got stranded in El Paso on a flight from Spruce Creek, FL, 7fl6 to Fox. It was close to a month before I could get back and pick it up. Corrosion in fuel line issues, I had just bought it. Here's hoping it all works out for you. So uh, whats yer first impression of Palmcaster?
 
Good decisions all around Mark. Live to fly another day. Congrats on the new job and hope you get your plane back soon and solid.

BTW, I’m the Tiger owner you met thr day before your trip at KHMP.
 
I feel your pain. I had to leave my plane at un unattended airport with no mechanic in central CA on the way to L.A. from Seattle 2 years ago. It was an expensive Uber to Sacramento to catch a Southwest flight home and then back again a week later after I found a mechanic to work on the plane. Prop seal came off and was dripping oil onto the alternator which was slip sliding the belt and gunning up with oil and showing lower voltage than normal (thats why I didn't continue flight...plus burning oil smell)....Glad you are safe- just best not to push it and get the plane fixed properly.
 
It could have been much, much worse. Does that make you feel any better? lol

I'm just glad you didn't have a catastrophic problem with the spinner / prop in flight.

Think of it this way, you get to have one more adventure getting it home. ;)
 
Wowsers!!

What kind of thing could cause that? Rock impact from a gravel runway? Or just fatigue from age?
 
kath said:
Wowsers!!

What kind of thing could cause that? Rock impact from a gravel runway? Or just fatigue from age?
Click to expand...

I think is was fatigue and improper installation. Cracking spinners was so common on the AA5s that Grumman issued a service letter about it. I didn't know about the service letter until now because my plane is an AA1 (but the firewall forward is from an AA5). The service letter was never applied to my prop spinner, in addition, when removing the spinner, I found it had been installed without the nylon prop washers that it should have.

Plus, everything on the plane is more than 40 years old.
 
Agreed with the person who suggested you leave at sunrise when your ready to head out, I hate the heat here. But I have heard good things about the folks at Buckeye so hopefully things will work out. And it sounds like all along your trip you did the right things by staying over night because you were tired, etc. Congrats on being a survivor instead of a statistic.
 
Ahhh Phoenix in summer (OK, really spring). At least it's under 120 degrees there now. Phoenix is sort of Arizona's purgatory where we hold people to see if they should be allowed in the nice part of the state: Prescott, Flagstaff, Bisbee, Showlow, etc.
 
Apologies for the thread drift - why would the lack of a spinner result in increased temperatures?
More disrupted airflow and less air going into the cowling?
Thanks.
 
G-Man said:
Apologies for the thread drift - why would the lack of a spinner result in increased temperatures?
More disrupted airflow and less air going into the cowling?
Thanks.
Click to expand...
I'm not an aeronautical engineer, but as I understand, that is the issue.
 
I’m also in GYR just East of Buckeye, West of Phoenix.

I have also heard only good things about maintenance at BXK.

the offer of help is sincerely there if needed. I fly a station-wagon with wings.
 
Last edited:
glad you are getting to where you are going and on the ground safe and sound. now a few points to consider.

Never listen to people that you do not know about what you can fly without.

In removing it and flying you violated a few fars.
1. flying an un-airworthy aircraft.
2. removing equipment and not updating the weight and balance paperwork.
3. the faa would probably throw in violating 91.113 careless and reckless operation on top of that.
4. when you do the above, don't tell all in public forum that someone from the FAA could be reading.

again, I am not piling on you, just trying to point out that there were a few things that you did not consider that could get you in bit of hot water.
 
Rgbeard said:
I’m also in GYR just East of Phoenix.

I have also heard only good things about maintenance at BXK.

the offer of help is sincerely there if needed. I fly a station-wagon with wings.
Click to expand...
Might want to check your compass there. Or I need to make sure my map is updated since they moved Goodyear.
 
unsafervguy said:
glad you are getting to where you are going and on the ground safe and sound. now a few points to consider.

Never listen to people that you do not know about what you can fly without.

In removing it and flying you violated a few fars.
1. flying an un-airworthy aircraft.
2. removing equipment and not updating the weight and balance paperwork.
3. the faa would probably throw in violating 91.113 careless and reckless operation on top of that.
4. when you do the above, don't tell all in public forum that someone from the FAA could be reading.

again, I am not piling on you, just trying to point out that there were a few things that you did not consider that could get you in bit of hot water.
Click to expand...

Probably would have been nice to have sent the OP a PM instead of busting his chops in an open forum...
 
That depends on the TCDS. It's not illegal in all cases. Fixed pitch PA-28s it's perfectly legal for instance.
 
Thanks for all of the encouragement and offers to help.

unsafervguy said:
glad you are getting to where you are going and on the ground safe and sound. now a few points to consider.

Never listen to people that you do not know about what you can fly without.

In removing it and flying you violated a few fars.
1. flying an un-airworthy aircraft.
2. removing equipment and not updating the weight and balance paperwork.
3. the faa would probably throw in violating 91.113 careless and reckless operation on top of that.
4. when you do the above, don't tell all in public forum that someone from the FAA could be reading.

again, I am not piling on you, just trying to point out that there were a few things that you did not consider that could get you in bit of hot water.
Click to expand...

hindsight2020 said:
That depends on the TCDS. It's not illegal in all cases. Fixed pitch PA-28s it's perfectly legal for instance.
Click to expand...

I will definitely do some research and keep that in mind in the future. I considered trying to pull this thread, but I decided not to based upon the aircraft not having a published minimum equipment list, I was acting on the advice of mechanics, and I feel that something can be learned from this. I would not knowingly violate FARs, but if I unknowingly did then this information could keep someone else from making the same mistake in the future.
 
I feel you handled this very appropriately, especially considering the pressures you were under. Be safe and handle the repercussions later.
 
Maybe you could bum around your new field and find a new friend who might fly you there, pay half the gas, grab some food, and fly back in loose formation.
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
Maybe you could bum around your new field and find a new friend who might fly you there, pay half the gas, grab some food, and fly back in loose formation.
Click to expand...

In other times, that would be my exact plan, but LA County is still under quarantine restrictions.
 
As an aero engineer and not a lawyer I would probably answer differently than most. But, one thing that this brings to mind is that your plane was not inspected well at last annual since sheet metal breakage like this almost certainly would have been preceded by a noticeable crack.
 
MarkH said:
I will definitely do some research and keep that in mind in the future. I considered trying to pull this thread, but I decided not to based upon the aircraft not having a published minimum equipment list, I was acting on the advice of mechanics, and I feel that something can be learned from this. I would not knowingly violate FARs, but if I unknowingly did then this information could keep someone else from making the same mistake in the future.
Click to expand...

Don't fret my man. Look in your POH. On the weight and balance section, there should be an equipment list. There you should find standard-installed, required, and optional equipment (whether installed or not). See if the spinner is labeled required or optional. In the fixed pitch prop airplanes I've owned, the spinners have been labeled optional, and I have in fact flown them without a spinner on occasion. Can't speak for the Grummans since these have been Vero Beach Pipers and 100 series cessnas I've owned or rented, but at least it should get you close to where you'll find the answer.

Congrats on the relocation and new job btw. I've been meaning to start flying on the West Coast with the family before COVID shut it down for the year. Cali offers a lot of topographical variety, should be nice for GA flying.
 
In the AA1C POH, it only defines standard and optional equipment. If you standard=required then it is unairworthy without a dome light. Standard vs Optional is just upgrades you could buy with the plane when it was new.
 
MarkH said:
In the AA1C POH, it only defines standard and optional equipment. If you standard=required then it is unairworthy without a dome light. Standard vs Optional is just upgrades you could buy with the plane when it was new.
Click to expand...

Yeah I can't speak to the grumman POH. I was using definitions on the Piper PA-28 POHs. There should be a definitions page or paragraph to define for you what is required and what is optional. In the Piper side, the spinner for fixed props is labeled optional, even though it was standard equipment.
 
I would have removed the spinner and fly...best of luck in the transition...some in this group would clutch pearls if they knew what Army MTP’s do to recover aircraft both in peace and war...that why we called it 100mph tape...that’s an never exceed speed...then again we had different rules...
 
MarkH said:
I feel that something can be learned from this.
Click to expand...
1) Ask 3 mechanics if something is legal, you will get 4 different answers.
2) With some effort, one can find something in the FAA labyrinth do support one's position: no matter what it is.
3) While the FAA loves paperwork, the airplane operates according to the laws of physics.
 
Yep, I think your chances of FAA trouble from your decisions on this and timeline are equal to a zombie apocalypse.
 
G-Man said:
Apologies for the thread drift - why would the lack of a spinner result in increased temperatures?
More disrupted airflow and less air going into the cowling?
Thanks.
Click to expand...
I didn't see anyone answer this, so I'll try. The shape of the spinner directs the airflow into the openings in the cowling. With the spinner removed, the air is deflected by the flat plate. Therefore it tends to overheat. At least this is how it was explained to me by a mechanic when I was making the same decision. I decided not to go, but the engine we are talking about was larger and turbocharged.
 
To be pedantic, not really deflect, but rather the streamlining of the spinner keeps the airflow attached, which ensures intake past the disc plate. With the disc plate with a flat singularity aka no spinner, the deflection angle is too steep and the airflow stalls and eddies, which creates an inverse pressure gradient that doesn't facilitate the kind of forced flow the cowling ducting design was meant to operate under. It's not binary, the intakes still get airflow, but in the more tightly cowled designs, the loss is enough to create heat issues.
 
i didnt mean to open a can of worms. as i said, my intent was to say, don't just listen to somebody just because they are an A&P.
now, to get into the fars a bit.
1. the aa1 was certificated under far23, the PA28 was certificated under car 3, that makes a difference.
a far 23 aircraft must have a poh that has an equipment list. it is unique to each aircraft. the equipment list for the AA1 lists two spinners
a standard and an optional. so that means that it was certificated with a spinner on it, however, the spinner is not listed as a required part in that list. But,unlike the PA28 and 150 the TCDS does not say that it can be flown without one. so i really cannot say 100 percent that it would be illegal to fly it without it.
2 the equipment list is also the basis for the weight and balance for the aircraft. since the spinner is listed, removing it and flying it without recalculating the weight and balance makes the aircraft unairworthy as it no longer has a current weight and balance and the required equipment list is not valid.
3. beacuse the TCDS does not say it can be flown without one, there is no data that I know of to tell what the aerodynamic and thermodynamic effects of flying it without one are. the OP has found out that there are thermodynamic effects that come in to play.

as to PMing the OP, the post was out there a PM would not change anything as far as the FAA is concern, by the way, i don't think there is much to worry about, but they have done petty things before. by putting it in the open forum, i think that it does more good by getting information and starting a thought process for pilots that have not been in that position and maybe gets a few more pilots to get a bit more involved with the part 43 side of their aircraft. "the A&P said so" doesn't alwas fly when there is a violation on the table.
as i have said, i was not calling him out, when I was at his experience level i would probably done the same thing, now that I am at a much higher experience and ratings level i feel its important to pass on things that I have learned along the way.
 
Rgbeard said:
I’m also in GYR just East of Buckeye, West of Phoenix.

I have also heard only good things about maintenance at BXK.

the offer of help is sincerely there if needed. I fly a station-wagon with wings.
Click to expand...

I guess you could take the wings off the AA1 and put them and the fuselage in the station wagon, and fly it out to him! :)
 
Doug Reid said:
Probably would have been nice to have sent the OP a PM instead of busting his chops in an open forum...
Click to expand...

On the other hand it helps others understand the potential issues that can arise. Unfortunately I didn’t consider those violations when I first read it because I was focused on his story of getting where he wanted to go.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top