ATC orders go-around as a joke

marcoseddi said:
Someone will be jobless this coming week!
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That's so cute...you think a federal employee can be fired for something like making a safety-related joke on a recorded line, costing a company thousands of dollars in the process...

The odds of the controller being fired for this are infinitesimal.
 
Everskyward said:
There's a reason it is aviate, navigate, communicate in that order. Why should you feel you need to acknowledge right away? They can see you going around. Besides, as a crew there are things you are saying to each other as part of the process.
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Sure, large crewed airplanes, times you are working something new out.... Go around should be a well known procedure, and for those of us not in crewed jets like me, it's really not that difficult to push the throttle forward with one hand while simultaneously controlling the yoke with the other hand, pushing the button that my finger is right next to and working my mouth to form the words "9SA on the go around." But then I can rub my stomach and pat my head at the same time.:rolleyes2:
 
If the Controller tells you "Go around". you go the heck around. If it's a bad joke, you have been inconvenienced. If it's not a bad joke, you live to fly another day.
 
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Cavorter said:
You must be an incredible pilot. I'm relatively new around here but have seen all your comments and your skill level must be quite significant. Are we going to see you performing at an airshow sometime? I would really love to see someone as highly skilled as you obviously are performing live.
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No, if I flew an airshow routine I'd be raining puke out of the plane. Airshow crap is violent.

Let me ask you something, when you have compounding failures and it's all going wrong, you're in IMC, you have no gyros, you're picking up ice, it's getting dark, and you're losing altitude over rising terrain; what do you think your task loading will be in comparison to a Day VFR go around?

Also when you transmit your actions simultaneously to doing them, you clear the frequency for further traffic rather than people holding off for your response.

It's like right of way in passing, you should pass port to port (leave them to your left) if there is a risk of collision determined. If you are going to pass each other well clear starboard to starboard, you do not turn across each other to pass port to port. Aviator, Navigate, Communicate is the same way, it only applies when needed. If you need it for a plain vanilla go around, your skill set is not up to par, no, it's not. Will it ever bite you? Who knows, I don't really care.

It's my opinion I put it out there for you to do what you will with. You can reject it, or you can consider it, it's up to you, I have done my karmic duty giving the information, that's all I need do.
 
Cpt_Kirk said:
Hope not. He's one of the best controllers here at ATL.
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Yeah, besides, despite forum posters love firing folks for every mistake, I'm glad most of the real world isn't like that. Mistakes happen. Personally, I like the controllers can have a bit of fun but this was a wrong time and was a bad decision but not something that would have killed anyone.

Most mistakes just aren't over recorded radio waves with news media publishing it.
 
Wonder how he got pass the psychology test.
 
Timmer said:
Yeah, besides, despite forum posters love firing folks for every mistake, I'm glad most of the real world isn't like that.
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Me too. This sounds like a serious enough lapse to warrant some disciplinary action, but it shouldn't be career-ending for an otherwise well-performing controller.
 
Make him pay for the fuel used on the go around.


Actually the fact that he made CNN this morning is probably good enough. I imagine he has learned his lesson.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Make him pay for the fuel used on the go around.


Actually the fact that he made CNN this morning is probably good enough. I imagine he has learned his lesson.
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Of all the controllers in the U.S., this one is least likely to do anything like this again. If I were his boss and it were up to me I'd write him up, make him sign it, and send him back to work. (Assuming this is his only issue and he's otherwise a great controller)
 
Captain said:
"Putting hundreds of passengers at risk!" ~bimbo fox reporter

The short clip is out of context and I'd like to hear the 30 sec before and after...but, it looks pretty bad for the controller. I'm having a hard time thinking when the phrase, "I'm kidding" would be an appropriate transmission.
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docmirror said:
This is what you take from the story?

You got it baaaaaaaaad. haterade like this will shorten your life. Meh - I say that like it would be a problem. I guess, go ahead and hate. Mazletov.
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So, you dont like the content of my post enough to backhandedly wish me dead yet you repeat my content as your own thought? Super.

docmirror said:
Well, "I'm kidding" is not something I can find in the P/C gloassary. The last articulated actionable transmission was "630 go around", the next one was "630 cleared to land" after some other discussion about parking.

I would have done exactly the same thing. An order to "go around" followed even seconds later with "cleared to land" equals "unable, I'm going around".

"630 go around" <> 'banter' when 630 is on short final.
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So this must be about the fox quote. Do you feel a go around is putting pax in danger? I do not. And I'd call any bimbo reporter on the obvious sensationalism regardless of network.

With that in mind I'd say you got it baaaaaaaaaaad for me. However, I hope you have a nice long life.
 
Henning said:
Sure, large crewed airplanes, times you are working something new out.... Go around should be a well known procedure, and for those of us not in crewed jets like me, it's really not that difficult to push the throttle forward with one hand while simultaneously controlling the yoke with the other hand, pushing the button that my finger is right next to and working my mouth to form the words "9SA on the go around." But then I can rub my stomach and pat my head at the same time.:rolleyes2:
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So can I, but I can't push the throttle forward, s.l.o.w.l.y. raise the Johnson bar flaps so as not to lose too much altitude, push in the carb heat , trim for climb and push the button all within a smidgin of a second. That "roger, going around" is going to be a few seconds in the coming.

Jim
 
gkainz said:
"I was just kidding!"
"Oh, ok. No problem. Carry on."
"Really?"
"No, just kidding. You're fired."
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If that doesn't get you fired, what does?

In the Live ATC recording, you can hear a second communication in the backgrounds us tending as the controller ends his "I'm kidding..." Presumably, that was the pilot reading back the instructions. If so, he wouldn't have heard the controller say that he was just kidding.
 
Captain said:
Of all the controllers in the U.S., this one is least likely to do anything like this again. If I were his boss and it were up to me I'd write him up, make him sign it, and send him back to work. (Assuming this is his only issue and he's otherwise a great controller)
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This is how I see it. It was a dumb thing to do, but it wasn't malicious. There are any number of dumb-ass things I can do to warrant a go-around, and regardless of the huge expense and inconvenience, I won't hear a thing about it unless it somehow gets to the media.

I'm sure this controller is beating himself up far more than any of us could. Lesson learned.
 
Even for small GA planes, starting a go around and then canceling and completing the landing is inviting an accident or incident.

You've broken the habit pattern of a stabilized approach.

Arrow on final go around, traffic still on the runway.
Arrow pilot responds, applies power, positive rate, gear up.
Arrow on final, traffic has cleared, cleared to land.
Arrow on final, roger cleared to land, chops power, pulls the flaps and forgets the gear.
Slide Kelly Slide, right down the centerline, on the belly, gear in the wells with a bent prop.
Thank you very much.

No it wasn't me, but I watched it happen. Had a recieve only radio on tower freq, no way to warn the hapless pilot.
 
Bad joke, but if you listen to the full clip, in hindsight it is pretty obvious what the controller is saying (go around as an option since there is no gate).

That said, when a controller says "go around," you go around. A better joke would have been something like clearing him for closed traffic and touch and goes.

The controller will hang. That's too bad.
 
I'm wondering what makes this story newsworthy. Does it rise to the level of 'man bites dog' because air traffic controllers are generally so very good, and serious, in their work, that it is shocking to find just one who briefly isn't? Or is it because airline flights are generally so good that passengers never notice something awry in a flight?

Just asking because I can't figure out the journalistic rationale.

The one thing I'm pretty sure about is they won't write this story if there aren't airline passengers. If it were a bus, train, or FedEx plane it wouldn't get a story.
 
It's newsworthy because now, rather than having 4 half hour segments of news per day on three channels, we have 24/7/365 news on a score of channels and they all need fresh programming to scare you with.
 
Henning said:
It's newsworthy because now, rather than having 4 half hour segments of news per day on three channels, we have 24/7/365 news on a score of channels and they all need fresh programming to scare you with.
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Agree. And to add, it's a function of broadcasters thinking they're still broadcasters. Eventually they'll figure out how to narrow cast and the problem will be solved. Until then we get this crap.

Btw, where is that Malaysia airliner? I need another month or two of round the clock coverage to figure out where the latest blackhole may form.
 
Once you commit to a go-around, you're committed. Be decisive.
 
Henning said:
Reality is you should be able to manage it all simultaneously, if you can't...:(
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Reality is you don't need to - and probably can't. There are several studies out there suggesting that human multi-tasking is a fiction. At best we're actually doing a combination of automated learned response and prioritization of tasks.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-power-prime/201103/technology-myth-multitasking

Besides, I'm not sure "I can't do the radio bit right now; it will wait after the killer items are taken care of" deserves a frown.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Reality is you don't need to - and probably can't. There are several studies out there suggesting that human multi-tasking is a fiction. At best we're actually doing a combination of automated learned response and prioritization of tasks.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-power-prime/201103/technology-myth-multitasking

Besides, I'm not sure "I can't do the radio bit right now; it will wait after the killer items are taken care of" deserves a frown.
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A good friend of mine (since dead) was a very well known child criminal psychologist who explained this to me one evening when I used the term "multi-tasking". Very interesting and informative discussion.
 
I can hit the PTT and say "6PC going around" as I advance the throttle. I've done it.
My left hand doesn't leave the yoke for any reason that I can think of and that is where I keep the PTT. my mic is on front of my mouth.

I can take in information as I am giving it out.
I'm full duplex man :)
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I can hit the PTT and say "6PC going around" as I advance the throttle. I've done it.
My left hand doesn't leave the yoke for any reason that I can think of and that is where I keep the PTT. my mic is on front of my mouth.

I can take in information as I am giving it out.
I'm full duplex man :)
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I think in reality you command the throttle forward and pitch appropriately, then radio going around, then work flaps and gear. It isn't that you aren't pushing the throttle forward and talking at the same time. It is that you already processed "throttle going forward" as you start talking, so the processing of tasks is serial despite their overlapping execution.

IMHO. I didn't use my dictionary on this one.
 
If you listen to the audio, the controller says "630 go around" then un-keys the mic. When the controller keys back up and says "I'm kidding," you can hear the pilot in the background saying "630 go around."

He gives some more directions, but the pilot didn't get that transmission or the "I'm kidding" part because, he got stepped on by the controller. That's why the controller had to ask "630 heavy, do you copy?" The pilot says, "sorry, say again."
 

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midlifeflyer said:
Reality is you don't need to - and probably can't. There are several studies out there suggesting that human multi-tasking is a fiction. At best we're actually doing a combination of automated learned response and prioritization of tasks.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-power-prime/201103/technology-myth-multitasking
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On second thought, this might be true. but my gut reaction was that it was not correct but maybe it is. Thinking of things I do in tandem, there does seem to be one task that gets the bulk of my attention.

I sing and play the guitar and in order to do that, the guitar is WAY more dependent on muscle memory versus actual concentration. If I am just playing the guitar, then it is different, 100% focus.

I think in the plane, gathering info or flying would be at the forefront. Doesn't take much thought to shove a lever forward or blab into the radio. My last go around (Geese on the field discovered when flaring) I think my focus was probably 99% on that sweet spot between not stalling but making sure I clear the treetops ahead. "Everything else" got done but looking back, I couldn't begin to tell you what order.

These are complex things though. What constitutes a Task? Every task could likely be broken down into sub tasks and at some point your brain should also be grouping multiple things into a single task and doing multiple things at once.


Maybe not though... I have smashed my left thumb with a hammer in my right hand or cut me left hand, holding food that I was chopping with my right.


hmmmm.

Okay. you're right.
 
SkyHog said:
The controller will hang. That's too bad.
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Hang? What does that mean? Get fired? Doubtful.

I wonder how many people actually get fired when the "Internet Experts" think that it is a foregone conclusion that they will be.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I can hit the PTT and say "6PC going around" as I advance the throttle.
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Why is it so bloody important to make a go around call right away? Why can't it wait a few seconds until things get stabilized?

Aviate, Navigate, and THEN Communicate.

There are very few things (none?) in Aviation that have to be done RIGHT NOW. Talking on the radio is not one of them.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Why is it so bloody important to make a go around call right away? Why can't it wait a few seconds until things get stabilized?

Aviate, Navigate, and THEN Communicate.

There are very few things (none?) in Aviation that have to be done RIGHT NOW. Talking on the radio is not one of them.
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Listen to the audio that I posted above. The pilot did communicate right away. His communication got stepped on by the controller. Similar to Tenerife without the heterodyne.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Why is it so bloody important to make a go around call right away? Why can't it wait a few seconds until things get stabilized?

Aviate, Navigate, and THEN Communicate.

There are very few things (none?) in Aviation that have to be done RIGHT NOW. Talking on the radio is not one of them.
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Doesn't HAVE to be it is just how I roll. Early in my training my instructor made me stop calling my turns while turning. I was so focused on what I was saying that I kept spinning the plane into the ground and killing us both.

Ok, that was a stretch. But he did say call then turn but don't do both until you are able to do so without trying to kill us.
Now I hit the ptt as I turn the yoke and it works out fine every time.

As a young lad of 23, I kissed the blarny stone and was blessed with the gift (curse maybe) of gab. Repeating what someone has said to me at this point requires so little processing power that it would probably be more disruptive for me to break my routine and do it a different way.

I CommuNavigAvaited on my checkride and the DPE had no issue with it.
 
wsuffa said:
Once you commit to a go-around, you're committed. Be decisive.
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Yeah, I gave my wife hell for that once. She decided she didn't like her approach and decided to go around and just sort of increased power a bit. No half-assed go arounds.. Throttle and Prop forward, gear up.
 
flyingron said:
Yeah, I gave my wife hell for that once. She decided she didn't like her approach and decided to go around and just sort of increased power a bit. No half-assed go arounds.. Throttle and Prop forward, gear up.
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Sidebar: Your wife is a pilot?
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Sidebar: Your wife is a pilot?
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Yeah. It works out pretty well, but she wants to fly half the legs. Actually since I got my instrument rating (and she does not), she figures she should fly if the weather is nice since I'll get to fly when it's not.

She swears she's going to deck me if I make any more comments about the centerline being out of service while she's landing.


What we are missing is some of the husband-wife checks and balances when we are both (as one of our other friends here put it) taking hits off the 100LL crack pipe. This is why I have one of the sweetest Navions out there and live on a fabulous house on an airpark.
 
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