Asking passengers to sign a waiver?

[Everskyward]

No, but they don't have a doofus Chief Counsel writing letters like Mangiemele and they don't worry about who's paying for the tank of gas, either.

Government regulators of automotive activity don't go out of their way to make driving a car an onerous ridiculous exercise in memorizing minutiae about which idiot on board can legally buy lunch.

FAA on the other hand...

I don't think this discussion has anything to do with fear of the FAA or the government. It's fear of getting sued by the other party.

 

[sixpacker]

If someone pulls out a release for me to fly in their plane. I'm not going, but not for any legal reason. I'm not going because the odds strongly favor this guy being a crap pilot focused on perfect fuel balance while we speed toward a mountain side. Same kind of guy that pulls out a scale before you board, spends 45 minutes moving bags around, calculates fuel weight to the fourth decimal, etc.

Releases are a ticket to the next Darwin awards ceremony.

So that does bring up an interesting point about pilot passengers versus non-pilot passengers. Even if I went down the road of asking for waivers to be signed by passengers , I would almost certainly exclude pilots. Perhaps it is faulty logic but the way I see it if the plane goes down and a pilot was sitting next to me and the issue is pilot error then he/she is just as "guilty" for letting whatever happen while they were sitting next to me. I ESPECIALLY like flying with CFIs or basically any pilot with higher ratings than me (which is not difficult to do) since by my (perhaps faulty) reasoning the focus of incompetence would shift even more so in their direction.

Plan A is still to make sure I don't crash. As others have pointed out, we have pretty much the same issues when we drive around others in our cars. We can't stop living. If we get sued we get sued.

 

[DJTorrente]

No, but they don't have a doofus Chief Counsel writing letters like Mangiemele and they don't worry about who's paying for the tank of gas, either.

Government regulators of automotive activity don't go out of their way to make driving a car an onerous ridiculous exercise in memorizing minutiae about which idiot on board can legally buy lunch.

FAA on the other hand...

Your comment makes me think about Uber, and particularly how it is expanding its service offering beyond commercial on-call taxi service, into private ride-sharing that includes a monetary exchange component. The taxi industry is leading the charge to shut Uber down in almost all cities, but the regulation of private ride-sharing looks a lot like the pro-rata scheme that private pilots live under.

Not that any of it would be a good development. Anyone familiar with the NoVA/DC slug lines? Can you imagine that ever getting off the ground if anything close to FAA-style regulation was involved?

The answer here is numbers. The FAA can effectively 'regulate' flying because there are so few pilots. They wouldn't have a prayer of doing anything similar to private vehicle owners, who outnumber pilots by thousands-to-one.

 

[Alexb2000]

So that does bring up an interesting point about pilot passengers versus non-pilot passengers. Even if I went down the road of asking for waivers to be signed by passengers , I would almost certainly exclude pilots. Perhaps it is faulty logic but the way I see it if the plane goes down and a pilot was sitting next to me and the issue is pilot error then he/she is just as "guilty" for letting whatever happen while they were sitting next to me. I ESPECIALLY like flying with CFIs or basically any pilot with higher ratings than me (which is not difficult to do) since by my (perhaps faulty) reasoning the focus of incompetence would shift even more so in their direction.

Plan A is still to make sure I don't crash. As others have pointed out, we have pretty much the same issues when we drive around others in our cars. We can't stop living. If we get sued we get sued.

If your plan is to have me help, I'd rather know about it before we take off. Otherwise, I'll keep my mouth shut for the most part.

I always put pilots I fly with in the left seat, seems to calm them down considerably.

 

[sixpacker]

If your plan is to have me help, I'd rather know about it before we take off. Otherwise, I'll keep my mouth shut for the most part.

I always put pilots I fly with in the left seat, seems to calm them down considerably.

Even in your own plane? My insurance says if I'm PIC I have to be left seat. I'm gonna be PIC in my own plane always .

 

[Alexb2000]

Even in your own plane? My insurance says if I'm PIC I have to be left seat. I'm gonna be PIC in my own plane always .

Yes in my plane, my policy doesn't have that language. Letting another pilot fly actually seems to make it easier, they feel in control, and I believe I have enough experience in my bird that things won't get out of hand. I am the PIC because I tell everyone I reserve the right to say, "my airplane" if needed, other than that it's a chance to share aviation and have a good time. No release required.

 

[James331]

Even in your own plane? My insurance says if I'm PIC I have to be left seat. I'm gonna be PIC in my own plane always .

I've never seen that I a policy ether. Only odd ball on my current policy is there is no open pilot coverage, named PICs only. After CFIing for a while, left or right, whatever is cleaver.

 

[Brad Z]

Anyone familiar with the NoVA/DC slug lines? Can you imagine that ever getting off the ground if anything close to FAA-style regulation was involved?

Sluglines exist because there is no exchange of money. I'm certain if money flowed in either direction, it would have been regulated out of existance.

Even in your own plane? My insurance says if I'm PIC I have to be left seat. I'm gonna be PIC in my own plane always .

I've never seen an insurance policy dictate where you sit to be PIC. I typically fly right seat with other pilots.

 

[sixpacker]

I've never seen an insurance policy dictate where you sit to be PIC. I typically fly right seat with other pilots.

Are you calling me a liar?



I just read through my insurance binder and I don't have that limitation. I had an incorrect recollection. I think maybe one of my POH's at some point said flying solo needed to be from the left side (???) but anyway it is not an insurance limitation.

 

[Zeldman]

I would rather have passengers sign a waiver promising not to barf on the back of my head anytime during flight or taxiing.

 

[flyingron]

I've seen several aircraft that limit solo to a certain seat (some tandem airplanes and the R-22).

Usually the PIC restrictions on the right is to stave off ersatz flight instruction and set up by fbos/flying clubs rather than being an insurance concern.

 

[JimNtexas]

never mind