Arrow gear won't retract

Update: It was connection related. Loose ground connection upstream of the relay. Probably mx induced during the replacement. Stuff happens. The man had been paid for the replacement labor already, so the loose connection troubleshoot and [third] gear swing was on the house.

A bit circuitous 2 months for a faltering relay, but glad to have the thing back in proper working order. Got a good check of all the associated switches and wire continuity as part of the process, so that's always good on 50 year old lawnmower. Sorry for the derail OP, but hopefully the thread helps other folks down the line. Pays to be familiar with the service manual and parts manual. Cheers!
 
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@hindsight2020
Why did it seem that you had a consistent problem (at a certain point) with the gear working normally on the ground but failure in the air?
How would a loose ground connection cause that?
 
Vibration.

I want to see if it works in the air now.
It did work in the air, that's why I posted the update.

I concur with your assessment that vibration was more than likely the culprit of the diverging outcomes on jacks vis a vis flight. Lycomings shake like a wet dog. i have a similar problem with the intercom causing interference as a result of panel vibration. Second i apply pressure to the buttons of the intercom face or area around it, the comm cleans up. it was so bad it was triggering the radios transmit function, which grounded me (no pun intended lol) for a few months .

4 banger lycos are not smooth engines. One frequency mode away from being a g d Russian vedeneyev afaic lol. That and not having fuel return lines (on this FI application anyways) are two opportunity costs I'm happy to eat over Conti ownership.
 
It did work in the air, that's why I posted the update.

I concur with your assessment that vibration was more than likely the culprit of the diverging outcomes on jacks vis a vis flight. Lycomings shake like a wet dog. i have a similar problem with the intercom causing interference as a result of panel vibration. Second i apply pressure to the buttons of the intercom face or area around it, the comm cleans up. it was so bad it was triggering the radios transmit function, which grounded me (no pun intended lol) for a few months .

4 banger lycos are not smooth engines. One frequency mode away from being a g d Russian vedeneyev afaic lol. That and not having fuel return lines (on this FI application anyways) are two opportunity costs I'm happy to eat over Conti ownership.
Have you had a dynamic prop balance done? It can make a huge difference in vibration. We bought a machine and I did it on all our school's airplanes, all Lyc-powered.
 
Have you had a dynamic prop balance done? It can make a huge difference in vibration. We bought a machine and I did it on all our school's airplanes, all Lyc-powered.

I haven't in the 10 years I've owned the thing. It never really crossed my mind until now. That sounds like a very worthwhile idea, especially since it's hella cheaper than dealing with intercomm related labor. :thumbsup:
 
That sounds like a very worthwhile idea,
If you have the prop checked see if they can also run a vib spectrum on the engine and if possible include levels at the pilot seat rails. If its as rough as you state there may be other causes like engine mounts which are designed to dampen the 1/2-per and 1 per vibrations into the airframe. There's no reason why you can't get those vibs down to .2 IPS at your seat rails with everything functioning properly.
 
There's no reason why you can't get those vibs down to .2 IPS at your seat rails with everything functioning properly.
I used to get the engine down to .2 IPS. That's before the shockmounts, so the rest of the airframe was real smooth.

Our set had one transducer, mounted to the front of the case. It locates and calculates the imbalance, fixed with weights attached to the aft spinner bulkhead. Some shops have two transducers, with one on each end of the engine, but I don't know how one would correct any imbalance at the back end anyhow.
 
but I don't know how one would correct any imbalance at the back end anyhow.
You don't. The aft sensor is used to check specific engine vibrations/frequencies or used to perform a spectrum of all vibs/freqs in the engine. After you balance the prop via the forward sensor, some people will check the engine vib levels using a combination of both sensors to see how the various engine components are working. Sometimes there can be odd vib in the engine that can affect the prop 1-per or is causing any harmonics. All depends how detailed you want to get into it. Have found various component issues using a spectrum check which led to better results with the prop and the ride in the cockpit.
I used to get the engine down to .2 IPS.
You can get lower readings but usually the rest of system like engine mount condition didn't make it worth the effort especially is you needed to modify the prop weight locations to make it work. However, on a new engine install especially with a fresh prop we would normally go for the lowest readings possible and record a base line spectrum for the engine and for the interior points for future reference.
 
After takeoff when I pull the gear up normally I can feel the retract/extend in the pedals as soon as I pull the lever, and it's usually got a characteristic sound I can hear in the headset, too. Today after takeoff there was nothing. No gear-in-transit light, no pedal feeling, no sound, nothing. Gear stayed extended, so I confirmed with tower my gear was actually down and then landed.

Checked all the breakers, visually inspected around the gear to see if anything appeared out of place but came up empty. Everything looks normal. The fact that it didn't even try to retract the gear and just stayed 3 in the green makes me think there must be an obvious culprit that prevents it from even attempting to retract. Squat switch stuck on? Hydraulic system component not working?

Any thoughts on likely causes? Or any add'l information I can provide to help diagnose? Never had this before.

Wondering what kind of AMU this'll be, as I'm guessing xmas came early for my A&P.


Not sure what you found with this post, but I just had the same issue with my Saratoga. Pulled the switch, gear started to lift, breaker popped, and gear had to be e-extended as nose gear didnt show light.... I had less that one hour on a newly installed Power Pack,,,,,Flew it to my shop and they immediatly lifted the wings for a check. The motor in new power was making all kinds of racket......Bad Pump......Had to order a second one and fly it in.....$4950 plus a 2k core exchange.....Bunk
 
Not sure what you found with this post, but I just had the same issue with my Saratoga. Pulled the switch, gear started to lift, breaker popped, and gear had to be e-extended as nose gear didnt show light.... I had less that one hour on a newly installed Power Pack,,,,,Flew it to my shop and they immediatly lifted the wings for a check. The motor in new power was making all kinds of racket......Bad Pump......Had to order a second one and fly it in.....$4950 plus a 2k core exchange.....Bunk
I ordered a rebuilt power pack for a Lake Amphibian. I took a look inside the reservoir before I installed it, and found it heavily contaminated with glass bead. Sent it right back, as the hydraulic pump itself was likely all scored up already, just from testing at the rebuilders. If it even got tested at all.

I found numerous Kelly rebuilt alternators with way too much grease in the rear bearing, grease that extruded when the rotor shaft was inserted, and that grease ended up on the slip rings and brushes. That added so much resistance to the field circuit that the alternator could barely function. I also found locally-rebuilt alternators with the same issue. Do these people EVER read the service manuals? Electrosystems used to publish those manuals. Maybe they still do.

I was in the air/vacuum/hydraulic brake rebuilding business for 12 years. In that time I rebuilt, or oversaw the rebuilding of, about 17,000 air compressors and hundreds of thousands of the various control and relay valves, along with many vacuum/hydraulic and hydraulic/hydraulic boosters. We tested every component thoroughly before shipping. No exceptions. Every one. No leakage was permitted, no sticky operation, and compressor pumping performance and bottom end oil flow was measured. That way, the legitimate warranty claims were miniscule. Most of the stuff that did come back failed because the dirty system had blown junk into the component, or lousy troubleshooting had misidentified the problem in the first place. We had an 800-number for mechanics to call when they couldn't figure the thing out. I answered a lot of those calls, hundreds of them, and afterward received thanks for the advice maybe twice.

Which is why I constantly advise owners with airplane problems to pay someone knowledgeable to do the troubleshooting. It can be so much cheaper in the end. Too many mechanics just start throwing parts at the problem. Troubleshooting is a skill that should be taught and tested in basic training, but then the understanding of the basics, like electrical theory, would have to form the basis of those courses, and too many don't care to work at it to get the understanding.
 
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