Arrested: Randy Babbitt

denverpilot said:
1.Same question here. I am having a hard time believing this is for a 3rd Class many years after the DUI.

2.If it is, it's perhaps sad, and anyone caught in it would be rightly angry... But there's other hobbies.

3.I can handle thinking someone's driven enough to push through to fly recreationally because they really want to fly, too.

4.But there's details missing that still make me quite skeptical that this is all made up or we're not getting the whole story.

5.Running off Doc Bruce was also a serious mistake. I can't think of a person more dedicated to helping other pilots get a medical and fly.
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1. This is what makes this a nightmare. Everyone I know is in complete shock this is happening to me. Doctors, medical students, pilots, everyone.

2. I'm determined to fly, and the word quit has never appeared next to my name. I'm also not an animal so I'm not just going to do the HIMS Program to fly.

3. Yes I really just want to fly, most pilots probably would do anything to fly?

4. Do not be skeptical, there is a legitimate basis for the anti-psychiatry movement. Its the thinking that no matter what you do you are forever diseased that has everyone fired up. And they close the loophole by saying if you don't see it, its because there is something in your brain making you not see it. It really is a catastrophe against humanity.

5. No not really, Doc Bruce believes it is a disease, so he really can't help me.


The HIMS Psychiatrist actually said I'm in remission, I just don't agree with him that I'm an animal with no self control. And I don't see how he's in a position to make an opinion about my brain when he himself is the lowest form of human on this planet, that his very existence is a waste of biological material.

I know i'll be able to fly, I just hope to minimize my Psychiatric torture in the process.
 
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Everskyward said:
Who is forcing you into some kind of program? How is this ruining your life? You have already said you are not trying to save your job. Are you just trying to get an FAA medical to fly recreationally?
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Imagine a psychiatrist was forcing you to believe you had Schizophrenia, and you told him you don't hear voices and you don't have it. He responds with, you have it but there is something in your brain that you can't see it.

Would you be upset? Because this is exactly what's happening to me, fortunately not the Schizophrenia part.
 
HIMS program said:
1. This is what makes this a nightmare. Everyone I know is in complete shock this is happening to me. Doctors, medical students, pilots, everyone.

2. I'm determined to fly, and the word quit has never appeared next to my name. I'm also not an animal so I'm not just going to do the HIMS Program to fly.

3. Yes I really just want to fly, most pilots probably would do anything to fly?

4. Do not be skeptical, there is a legitimate basis for the anti-psychiatry movement. Its the thinking that no matter what you do you are forever diseased that has everyone fired up. And they close the loophole by saying if you don't see it, its because there is something in your brain making you not see it. It really is a catastrophe against humanity.

5. No not really, Doc Bruce believes it is a disease, so he really can't help me.


The HIMS Psychiatrist actually said I'm in remission, I just don't agree with him that I'm an animal with no self control. And I don't see how he's in a position to make an opinion about my brain when he himself is the lowest form of human on this planet, that his very existence is a waste of biological material.

I know i'll be able to fly, I just hope to minimize my Psychiatric torture in the process.
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The question to answer is whether you are drinking at all anymore (even a beer after work).

I don't ask as a judgmental question, as I actually agree with your points by and large, but as a curiosity question. Since all of this happened, have you cracked a beer since?
 
weilke said:
Someone else who thinks that he doesn't have a problem and that the world is out to get him.
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Why don't you think before you attack someone? I live in parents basement work multiple jobs and 100% of my income goes to lawyers and Psychiatrists. I have sacrificed my education and hobbies.

Do I think the world is out to get me? No. Has my life been completely and fully screwed over? Yes. So keep your little commentary to yourself.
 
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SkyHog said:
The question to answer is whether you are drinking at all anymore (even a beer after work).

I don't ask as a judgmental question, as I actually agree with your points by and large, but as a curiosity question. Since all of this happened, have you cracked a beer since?
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No I have not cracked a beer, but my point is it doesn't matter. I want the government OUT of my personal life.

It's not about the beer, I could care less about the beer. It's living under suppression that bothers me.
 
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You seem to forget. You can walk away from it. You don't have to spend 100% of your income on the program. You seem to forget that YOU got the DUI. Actions have consequences.

You don't have to work in aviation. Really.

My difficulties are trying to devise minimal expense components to the non 121 guy who doesn't have union benefits and protections. Like my guy who works full time for a charter company. HE realizes that he is going to have the government in his life, for two years. Under the interstate commerce clause, the FEDS regulate the sky, not the states.

But at least he gets to keep filling his logbook with Citation Mustang time, and KA 200 time :)

HIMS program said:
I got one DUI not 3.
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But the BAC was a doozie, or if no BAC, the sobriety check was a doozie. You were Tolerant, meaning much quiet past abuse.
 
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bbchien said:
You seem to forget. You can walk away from it. You don't have to spend 100% of your income on the program. You seem to forget that YOU got the DUI. Actions have consequences.

You don't have to work in aviation. Really.

My difficulties are trying to devise minimal expense components to the non 121 guy who doesn't have union benefits and protections. Like my guy who works full time for a charter company. HE realizes that he is going to have the government in his life, for two years. Under the interstate commerce clause, the FEDS regulate the sky, not the states.

But at least he gets to keep filling his logbook with Citation Mustang time, and KA 200 time :)
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Welcome back, Doc. Even if it's a fluke in coming back to the thread, we still welcome your input.

HIMS - you screwed the pooch. Nobody did this to you, for you, or about you. You did this to yourself all by yourself. Accept it. Embrace the suck. Roll in it and enjoy the smell of it. You bought and paid for it, it's yours. Quit feeling sorry about it and start to accept it.

Is the system screwed up? Yup. Did you know that before you stepped into it? If you didn't, you should have. Can you fix it now that you've stepped in it? Nope, at least not easily or cheaply. Is there a way to fix it? Yes, a couple of them - work through the system as it is today, or move to a different country where the system doesn't apply.

And while I'm at it - how 'bout we just fess up and quit saying "just a bit over .15" and call it .16? Driving limit is .08, flying limit is .04. Over is over, it doesn't matter how much. You were WAY over either standard, no point in shaving corners here.

Psychiatry is a whole 'nuther argument - but the basis of the argument here is that it's not a mental or philosophical argument - it's a physical one. You were drunk by anyones measure of the definition, you proved it beyond doubt, and you proved beyond doubt the lack of reasoning required to get drunk recreationally without impacting the public around you. It is now required of you to go through the procedures in place to show you have "improved" yourself to a standard acceptable to that same public in order to be employed in the service of the public, if you choose to do so. Nobody requires you to do this - just as nobody requires you to be employed in this line of work, and nobody required you to be publically drunk when you were arrested. Your choice, your results.

Suck it up and deal.
 
Palmpilot said:
Regardless of the answer to that question, shouldn't there be some evidence that the problem still exists before a person is coerced into a program? Would it perhaps be appropriate to undertake a medical evaluation of whether the person involved really has sobered up?
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No, the opposite, they are already convicted screwups; by all rights they should not expect to hold a license that puts them in a position of public trust. The HIMS program is like parole, it's a gift, but it comes with stipulations where you have to continue to prove worthiness of that trust. If you don't like it you can go f- yourself and turn in your ticket.
 
Henning said:
No, the opposite, they are already convicted screwups; by all rights they should not expect to hold a license that puts them in a position of public trust. The HIMS program is like parole, it's a gift, but it comes with stipulations where you have to continue to prove worthiness of that trust. If you don't like it you can go f- yourself and turn in your ticket.
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I'm skeptical of the assumption "once a scewup, always a screwup." It's just too cynical for my taste.

On the other hand, I do find myself wondering why he doesn't just go with the flow and cooperate with the program, instead of spending money on lawyers.
 
Palmpilot said:
I'm skeptical of the assumption "once a scewup, always a screwup." It's just too cynical for my taste.

On the other hand, I do find myself wondering why he doesn't just go with the flow and cooperate with the program, instead of spending money on lawyers.
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I agree.

HIMS puts you on monitoring for two years (if you hvae only one diagnosis). If you stay clean, you are generally released on your own recognizance.

HIMSProgram just needs to buck up and put up with it. It's not forever.
 
HIMS program said:
Why don't you think before you attack someone? I live in parents basement work multiple jobs and 100% of my income goes to lawyers and Psychiatrists. I have sacrificed my education and hobbies.
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If that is the case, you either:
- are going about it somehow the wrong way.
- allow that desire to fly take over waay too much of your life.


Do I think the world is out to get me? No. Has my life been completely and fully screwed over? Yes. So keep your little commentary to yourself.
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The world is full of people who had a one or two DUIs in college and turned into useful members of society thereafter, one even became president.

Your single indiscretion doesn't keep your life from moving ahead, even for a goverment security clearance such a single misstep (if that is what is was which I start to doubt) would not be an unsurmountable obstacle.

Heck, if you weren't hell bent on driving anybody off who can help you to get past the FAA with your anti-psychiatry propaganda, you would already be 9/10th the way to your student license.
 
airguy said:
HIMS - you screwed the pooch. Nobody did this to you, for you, or about you. You did this to yourself all by yourself. Accept it. Embrace the suck. Roll in it and enjoy the smell of it. You bought and paid for it, it's yours. Quit feeling sorry about it and start to accept it.

Is the system screwed up? Yup. Did you know that before you stepped into it? If you didn't, you should have. Can you fix it now that you've stepped in it? Nope, at least not easily or cheaply. Is there a way to fix it? Yes, a couple of them - work through the system as it is today, or move to a different country where the system doesn't apply.

And while I'm at it - how 'bout we just fess up and quit saying "just a bit over .15" and call it .16? Driving limit is .08, flying limit is .04. Over is over, it doesn't matter how much. You were WAY over either standard, no point in shaving corners here.

Psychiatry is a whole 'nuther argument - but the basis of the argument here is that it's not a mental or philosophical argument - it's a physical one. You were drunk by anyones measure of the definition, you proved it beyond doubt, and you proved beyond doubt the lack of reasoning required to get drunk recreationally without impacting the public around you. It is now required of you to go through the procedures in place to show you have "improved" yourself to a standard acceptable to that same public in order to be employed in the service of the public, if you choose to do so. Nobody requires you to do this - just as nobody requires you to be employed in this line of work, and nobody required you to be publically drunk when you were arrested. Your choice, your results.

Suck it up and deal.
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I guess it had to be spelled out by someone.
 
weilke said:
I guess it had to be spelled out by someone.
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Yeah, well, I'm kinda cranky like that. Not much political correctness exists in my head, I pretty much call it like I see it and don't put up with whiny maggots much.

I'm old enough now that I have fewer years in front of me than I have behind me, and I don't waste much time with BS, I just cut to the chase.

If my response to HIMS offends anyone, well, grow a pair and get over it.
 
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airguy said:
If my response to HIMS offends anyone, well, grow a pair and get over it.
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:rofl:

I'm surprised that people are even responding to the troller...
 
Take a break from HIMS, move out of your parents basement and find a girlfriend that is not inflatable. You might not have a medical but at least you'll be getting laid.
 
Palmpilot said:
I'm skeptical of the assumption "once a scewup, always a screwup." It's just too cynical for my taste.

On the other hand, I do find myself wondering why he doesn't just go with the flow and cooperate with the program, instead of spending money on lawyers.
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Because they are talking to me as if I am still drinking and got the DUI yesterday. When in fact I cleaned up my act immediately after the DUI that was over 5 years ago. As you can imagine this can be quite irritating for a person. They are trying to fix what I already fixed a long time ago. The stupidity is overwhelming, it's hard to keep my brain from exploding from the extreme stupidity. Yea, what a great 'gift'

However, I don't think they are really that stupid. My hypothesis is they know they're stupid, they know when they make a person do all of this it automatically makes it look like they have a problem, and when the person complains it makes them look like they have a problem. It's exactly like what Donald Trump says about the Government, he suspects they know they're stupid. Which is worse than just being stupid.

Trust me, I am going with the flow, but the stupidity is at the highest levels I have ever experienced.

IF an alcohol problem exists, the pilot certainly should not be allowed to fly. I just don't agree the FAA has the ability to detect a problem. In fact, it is my opinion that the FAA has the whole thing ass backwards, it is set up for straight up alcoholics to have an easy way to keep flying, it is designed to be very easy for real alcoholics to get through. And it's just irritating for normal people without problems. Take this from a guy with a >0.15 DUI, I know.

iHenning,

I agree with you that all this is punishment for past DUI. I just don't see why I have to go under extra punishment because I want to be a pilot.
 
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HIMS program said:
I agree with you that all this is punishment for past DUI. I just don't see why I have to go under extra punishment because I want to be a pilot.
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Many college grads use maybe 5% of what they learned in college. 95% is in the training provided by their employers on the job.

So why do employers looking for technical people hire college grads if they are just going to retrain them anyway? What a huge waste of money, effort and time for the students. It seems like a punishment for those folks who know they have the ability to learn their skills post-hire.

<hint - because employers know that people who can grind through the punishment and expense of multiple years of exams, papers and cramming have demonstrated commitment and are more likely to succeed than someone hired off the street. It sways the odds greatly towards a favorable outcome.>
 
HIMS program said:
I have to go under extra punishment because I want to be a pilot.
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When you fly an airplane with passengers you assume much more responsibility than 99 percent of Americans. Just think of it as punishment for being in the one percent.

 
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dell30rb said:
When you fly an airplane with passengers you assume much more responsibility than 99 percent of Americans. Just think of it as punishment for being in the one percent.

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I'm not going into commercial flying. This is just as a hobby. I'll go with the flow but I'm not going to sit back and pretend like nothing's wrong and be glad to have my rights, that's what they used to tell the slaves.

As a guy with a >0.15 DUI I'd be more worried about the guys not complaining about the program.
 
HIMS program said:
...t I'm not going to sit back and pretend like nothing's wrong and be glad to have my rights, that's what they used to tell the slaves.
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Okay ... it's one thing to vent on a internet forum to make yourself feel better, but what could your plan of not "sitting back" and taking it possibly consist of???
 
HIMS program said:
...t I'm not going to sit back and pretend like nothing's wrong and be glad to have my rights, that's what they used to tell the slaves.
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Okay ... it's one thing to vent on a internet forum to make yourself feel better, but what could your plan of not "sitting back" and taking it possibly consist of???


I would think that if you want to exit the program as it exists today, you need to sit back and take it.

Unless of course, you feel you have the ability and skillset to align, organize, and lead the required experts, as well as successfully petition the FAA to change the requirements in less than two years.


If you are looking for credibility with those you will need who might have an impact on the system, however, I would recommend that you tone down your rhetoric.

Otherwise, vent away.
 
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HIMS program said:
I'm not going into commercial flying. This is just as a hobby. I'll go with the flow but I'm not going to sit back and pretend like nothing's wrong and be glad to have my rights, that's what they used to tell the slaves.

As a guy with a >0.15 DUI I'd be more worried about the guys not complaining about the program.
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You're not going to fly passengers? Friends / Family? You should have just gone for the LSA..... no medical... too bad you missed out on that one.
 
dell30rb said:
You're not going to fly passengers? Friends / Family? You should have just gone for the LSA..... no medical... too bad you missed out on that one.
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He would have needed a student pilot license, for that he would have had to disclose his drinking problems on the application.

The only way for a drunk to fly sport pilot (illegally) is if they had a medical, let it lapse, then get themselves caught by the justice system and take up SP afterwards.
 
Back to Babbitt for a second. What with his arrest coming so close before the release of the new duty/rest rules what do you want to bet that the UPS and Fedex lobbyists picked up his bar tab?
 
Bobcat1 said:
Back to Babbitt for a second. What with his arrest coming so close before the release of the new duty/rest rules what do you want to bet that the UPS and Fedex lobbyists picked up his bar tab?
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While browsing the Babbitt news articles, came across this somewhat poignant quote from the man himself.

I can’t regulate the person who’s just going to flat out do the wrong thing. I can’t write a rule that’s going to work if I’m dealing with a person who’s going to ignore it. Our training now is so sophisticated, so realistic that it’s hard to imagine a scenario that can’t be recreated in a virtual world. But no training, no matter how good is going to help someone who thinks that situational awareness is a slogan that we only use during check rides. The right thing to do is always the right thing to do.

...

The larger question must be asked and answered: Have we created a safety culture? That’s the linchpin here, because safety is a shared responsibility — shared by FAA and the manufacturers and the carriers and the pilots alike; shared by all of us in the aviation community. Total perfection is not realistic but we can make it the norm not the exception.

And that should not stop us from striving to climb to that next level of safety or professionalism. As members of the aviation community we have a shared responsibility to make that happen.

That responsibility is what drives me as FAA Administrator
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http://waynefarley.com/aviation/2010/03/randy-babbit-speaks-to-women-in-aviation/
 
HIMS program: if all you are going to do is third class aviation, all you need to do is lay off of certification for ten years since your DUI. After that time, if you can prove NO new events, (DL search), they will certify you with three letters of reference from the community.

MUCH cheaper.

Otherwise stop whining.
 
Palmpilot said:
Is it an expensive process if he doesn't fight it? What type of expenses are incurred?
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He has to be in the program, with visits to a counselor, random drug and alcohol tests, a mentor etc. If your union pays for it, no problem. Out of pocket just to bop around in a 172 pretty prohibitive.
 
bbchien said:
HIMS program: if all you are going to do is third class aviation, all you need to do is lay off of certification for ten years since your DUI. After that time, if you can prove NO new events, (DL search), they will certify you with three letters of reference from the community.

MUCH cheaper.

Otherwise stop whining.
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This would have been an option I would have considered about $15,000 ago. I'm knee deep in this game now.
 
Well, if the HIMS AME didn't present you a cost list at the outset, and /or you didn't ask, shame on you/him whatever.

You can still walk. Sounds like mentally/emotionally you already have.
 
bartmc said:
My BS-O-Meter is either broken or reading off the scale.
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That's nothing compared to what I could have spent, this Psychiatrist wanted me to go into a detox facility for $25K, I don't think he is actually that stupid to think I need to detox for a DUI 5+ years ago, I think he knows he's stupid, which is worse. The fact that he wore a bow-tie when 'evaluating' me confirms this suspicion.

It's gonna be a lot more money by the time I get done with this. Trust me, me and my wallet wish your BS-O-Meter was right.
 
Just curious, but how old are you, HIMS program, and what do you do professionally? I've been reading this thread, and honestly don't know what to think either way.
 
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