Arlington, VA optionerations?

[EdFred]

Looks like I'm limited to Man Asses and Dullards. I've got my FAA certificate of bereavement for "Navigating the DC ADIZ, TFRs, and Special Use Airspace" dated January 13, 2006. Anything changed since then, other than it being called SFRA? Also, it's been 8 years, what was on that quiz?

I will probably go into HEF because, well, the fuel is $3.00/gallon cheaper. APP or Dulles Aviation for the FBO?

Heading in, it's obviously easier to file IFR, and follow instructions. Is that the easiest way out of the SFRA as well?

 

[jdwatson]

You can take the current education from FAASafety.gov course ALC-55. IFR simplifies everything when it comes to the SFRA. Get your fingerprints, head to Dulles and get vetted for FRZ.

 

[TMetzinger]

HEF gives good options for transport
JYO is a little simpler (all you need is to squawk 1227 inbound VFR)

I can give you a lift at either airport.

 

[EdFred]

You can take the current education from FAASafety.gov course ALC-55. IFR simplifies everything when it comes to the SFRA. Get your fingerprints, head to Dulles and get vetted for FRZ.

My fingerprints are already in an electronic database (carry permit) I wonder if I can get a copy. Though, I'm not sure Potomac or Washington Exec are much easier to get in and out of from Arlington ground vehicle wise.

HEF gives good options for transport
JYO is a little simpler (all you need is to squawk 1227 inbound VFR)

I can give you a lift at either airport.

Leesburg looks like it's a longer drive and more traffic to deal with - as I will already be getting picked up. HEF looks like it's just hop on/off 66 and call it good.

 

[TMetzinger]

My fingerprints are already in an electronic database (carry permit) I wonder if I can get a copy. Though, I'm not sure Potomac or Washington Exec are much easier to get in and out of from Arlington ground vehicle wise.



Leesburg looks like it's a longer drive and more traffic to deal with - as I will already be getting picked up. HEF looks like it's just hop on/off 66 and call it good.

FRZ doesn't help much for DC access really. HEF is close to I-66 and also has rail options in the morning. So that's your best bet. File IFR and don't worry about the airspace.

 

[EdFred]

FRZ doesn't help much for DC access really. HEF is close to I-66 and also has rail options in the morning. So that's your best bet. File IFR and don't worry about the airspace.

That's what I figured. And I can cancel once outside the SFRA.

 

[flyingron]

My fingerprints are already in an electronic database (carry permit) I wonder if I can get a copy. Though, I'm not sure Potomac or Washington Exec are much easier to get in and out of from Arlington ground vehicle wise.

Not good enough. You need to get the appropriate marked cards and the only practical way is to go to DCA to do so.

That being said (and I was based at VKX on 9/11 so I was in one of the first bunched cleared to operate out of the FRZ), the ground transport options at VKX and W32 are NON-EXISTENT. Your best option is IAD ($$$ for the plane side, but better on the ground transportation). Next is indeed HEF. In fact, I'm not convinced JYO is much different from HEF. JYO is a straight shot on a superhighway (admittedly much of it is a toll road) down into Arlington. HEF is not right on I-66. If you take the PW Parkway (recommended) you're backtracking a few miles to the west. Don't even thing about SR 28.


There are two FBOs at HEF. Dulles Aviation has always treated us well. I've only really walked through the one on the other side after the last change of ownership there.

I was based at IAD Landmark for a while so I still tend to that side of the airport, though Signature treated me well the one time I stopped in over there.

If you have time, stop in at the National Air and Space Museum Udvar-Hazy center located on the south side of Dulles (no you can't taxi there from the main airport except at certain times of the year...I have a YouTube video of me doing that somewhere).

 

[poadeleted20]

My fingerprints are already in an electronic database (carry permit) I wonder if I can get a copy.

No, they need you to be there to have your prints taken in person.

Though, I'm not sure Potomac or Washington Exec are much easier to get in and out of from Arlington ground vehicle wise.

They aren't.

As for the original question, yes, a good bit has changed since 2006. I strongly suggest either a very careful reading of the current NOTAMs (there are three in all) and the new-since-then Subpart V of Part 93, or retaking the course in its current configuration.

 

[wsuffa]

I'm based at HEF - file IFR, it'll be easier (not that VFR is hard, but you gotta file the same stuff either way). Going out IFR will be departure procedure - with altitude limits to keep you clear of IAD traffic.

Either FBO will do. I use Dulles Aviation - good folks there, and it's family owned. Fuel is usually a few cents cheaper at Dulles. Request Runway 34L/16R unless you need the ILS - it'll save you some taxi time to Dulles.

Transport options are OK from HEF - either train, rental car or pickup, close to I66.

 

[Brad Z]

A few corrections to above. 1) You no longer have to go to DCA to get your fingerprints*. Efforts are underway to eventually expand to other FSDOs to do the pilot records portion of the vetting, but for now you will need to visit the Dulles FSDO for VKX and W32 or Baltimore FSDO for CGS.

2) It is not difficult to have a rental arranged at W32 or VKX. Neither are far from Branch Ave Metro station so you can always call a cab and take the metro in.

3) provided you have the required training, there's nothing wrong with canceling IFR on arrival after checking in with Potomac approach, prior to your destination. I typically will do that coming in from the west as they will often vector you far south to avoid IAD and DCA arrivals. Just keep your assigned code and proceed VFR below the bravo.

*http://www.hydefield.com/Hyde_Field/Getting_A_PIN_Number.html

 

[EdFred]

Not good enough. You need to get the appropriate marked cards and the only practical way is to go to DCA to do so.

That being said (and I was based at VKX on 9/11 so I was in one of the first bunched cleared to operate out of the FRZ), the ground transport options at VKX and W32 are NON-EXISTENT. Your best option is IAD ($$$ for the plane side, but better on the ground transportation). Next is indeed HEF. In fact, I'm not convinced JYO is much different from HEF. JYO is a straight shot on a superhighway (admittedly much of it is a toll road) down into Arlington. HEF is not right on I-66. If you take the PW Parkway (recommended) you're backtracking a few miles to the west. Don't even thing about SR 28.


There are two FBOs at HEF. Dulles Aviation has always treated us well. I've only really walked through the one on the other side after the last change of ownership there.

I was based at IAD Landmark for a while so I still tend to that side of the airport, though Signature treated me well the one time I stopped in over there.

If you have time, stop in at the National Air and Space Museum Udvar-Hazy center located on the south side of Dulles (no you can't taxi there from the main airport except at certain times of the year...I have a YouTube video of me doing that somewhere).

When I say right off, I mean what appears to be easy directions, not that it borders 66. Though anything within 5 miles I consider to be "right off"

 

[EdFred]

A few corrections to above. 1) You no longer have to go to DCA to get your fingerprints*. Efforts are underway to eventually expand to other FSDOs to do the pilot records portion of the vetting, but for now you will need to visit the Dulles FSDO for VKX and W32 or Baltimore FSDO for CGS.

2) It is not difficult to have a rental arranged at W32 or VKX. Neither are far from Branch Ave Metro station so you can always call a cab and take the metro in.

3) provided you have the required training, there's nothing wrong with canceling IFR on arrival after checking in with Potomac approach, prior to your destination. I typically will do that coming in from the west as they will often vector you far south to avoid IAD and DCA arrivals. Just keep your assigned code and proceed VFR below the bravo.

*http://www.hydefield.com/Hyde_Field/Getting_A_PIN_Number.html

Knowing that is a good option. Is it really that simple?

 

[Brad Z]

Knowing that is a good option. Is it really that simple?

Pretty much. You need to have a flight plan, a squawk code, and talk to ATC inside the SFRA. If you are flying along IFR towards the SFRA, don't cancel IFR before talking to Potomac Tracon. Once you're with Potomac and they give you a reroute, or start vectoring you all over, just let them know you'd like to cancel IFR and continue VFR under the class bravo. They'll keep your flight plan strip active, your squawk code active, and will acknowledge " n123 IFR cancellation received, proceed as requested, remain clear of the class bravo." You'll stay on frequency until you're handed over to tower (or advise them that you have your non-towered destination in sight), and they may even continue to provide radar advisories, but you won't be IFR.

Big thing is never squawk 1200 for a moment inside the SFRA. You should always have an assigned code.

 

[EdFred]

Pretty much. You need to have a flight plan, a squawk code, and talk to ATC inside the SFRA. If you are flying along IFR towards the SFRA, don't cancel IFR before talking to Potomac Tracon. Once you're with Potomac and they give you a reroute, or start vectoring you all over, just let them know you'd like to cancel IFR and continue VFR under the class bravo. They'll keep your flight plan strip active, your squawk code active, and will acknowledge " n123 IFR cancellation received, proceed as requested, remain clear of the class bravo." You'll stay on frequency until you're handed over to tower (or advise them that you have your non-towered destination in sight), and they may even continue to provide radar advisories, but you won't be IFR.

Big thing is never squawk 1200 for a moment inside the SFRA. You should always have an assigned code.

That I do know. I didn't know that an IFR flight plan automatically "became" a SFRA VFR flight plan upon cancelling IFR.

 

[TMetzinger]

That I do know. I didn't know that an IFR flight plan automatically "became" a SFRA VFR flight plan upon cancelling IFR.

It doesn't magically convert, but since it's all handled by the same TRACON it works well.

That's why you DON'T cancel until you're talking to Potomac.

 

[jtheune]

This information may be outdated since it was given to me back when the SFRA was bigger but I was told that you should not cancel IFR until you were inside the SFRA no matter who you were talking to. Given that I'm based out of Lee on the eastern side and don't get rerouted much I've not questioned it, just done it.

 

[TMetzinger]

What I've done on nice VFR days going IFR into HEF has been:

Me: Potomac, NXXXX, we've got manassas in sight, we can cancel IFR if that helps.
Potomac: NXXXX, Potomac, IFR cancellation received, keep the beacon code, remain outside the bravo, contact Manassas Tower

 

[EdFred]

What I've done on nice VFR days going IFR into HEF has been:

Me: Potomac, NXXXX, we've got manassas in sight, we can cancel IFR if that helps.
Potomac: NXXXX, Potomac, IFR cancellation received, keep the beacon code, remain outside the bravo, contact Manassas Tower

Are you already inside the SFRA when doing that or outside it? Assuming I don't need to fly an instrument approach, and can cancel with Potomac while outside the SFRA I would probably file to CSN and then in through the FLUKY gate.

 

[Brad Z]

Are you already inside the SFRA when doing that or outside it? Assuming I don't need to fly an instrument approach, and can cancel with Potomac while outside the SFRA I would probably file to CSN and then in through the FLUKY gate.

Then you'd need to file two flight plans- one IFR to CSN, another VFR SFRA flight plan from FLUKY to the airport. FWIW though, I will often file a second "insurance" VFR flight plan to my home airport (VKX) in case I don't like the IFR routing and cancel well before getting to Potomac Tracon's airspace. This is particularly important for me, since I can't use DUATS to file to an airport inside the FRZ.

That said, if your destination is inside the SFRA, and you've filed an IFR flight plan to that destination, you meet the regulatory requirement for filing a flight plan, even if you opt to cancel IFR status, provided you keep the code and maintain comms with ATC...even if you cancel with Potomac before actually entering the SFRA.

 

[poadeleted20]

This information may be outdated since it was given to me back when the SFRA was bigger but I was told that you should not cancel IFR until you were inside the SFRA no matter who you were talking to.

Won't make a difference once you're talking to Potomac unless you have to cross the big airports, but that's more due to the B-space than anything else. For example, when coming from Salisbury to Gaithersburg, if you file IFR at 6000, you can get over the top of BWI, cancel IFR, and proceed almost direct to GAI descending to the pattern normally. OTOH, if you cancel IFR before crossing BWI, you will almost certainly be told to remain clear of the Bravo, which then means going all the way up around Martin State or going under the Bravo and running the Fort Meade Gap from Annapolis across Laurel-Suburban and then to GAI.

 

[TMetzinger]

Are you already inside the SFRA when doing that or outside it? Assuming I don't need to fly an instrument approach, and can cancel with Potomac while outside the SFRA I would probably file to CSN and then in through the FLUKY gate.

Outside... usually over Warrenton. Your plan to file to HEF with CSN as the last waypoint is reasonable.

 

[poadeleted20]

Then you'd need to file two flight plans- one IFR to CSN, another VFR SFRA flight plan from FLUKY to the airport.

If you filed IFR to HEF, got turned over by ZDC to PTC, and then cancelled IFR passing CSN (which is inside the SFRA), you would not need any other flight plan.

FWIW though, I will often file a second "insurance" VFR flight plan to my home airport (VKX) in case I don't like the IFR routing and cancel well before getting to Potomac Tracon's airspace. This is particularly important for me, since I can't use DUATS to file to an airport inside the FRZ.

The FRZ is another issue entirely.

That said, if your destination is inside the SFRA, and you've filed an IFR flight plan to that destination, you meet the regulatory requirement for filing a flight plan, even if you opt to cancel IFR status, provided you keep the code and maintain comms with ATC...even if you cancel with Potomac before actually entering the SFRA.

Exactly. So why did you say he'd need a second flight plan if flying IFR to HEF and canceling IFR passing CSN?

 

[TMetzinger]

Ron, CSN is not inside the SFRA. It's inside the speed limit ring.

 

[poadeleted20]

Ron, CSN is not inside the SFRA. It's inside the speed limit ring.

DOH! You're right. But it still won't matter if Wash Ctr has already handed you to Potomac as long as you say something like "Potomac, Cessna 123 would like to continue VFR to Manassas" rather than just "Cessna 123, cancel IFR". There won't be any need to enter the Bravo if you're heading to HEF from CSN. However, if you were headed to the other side of the Bravo from that position, it might bugger your chances of going through the B-space rather than around it.

 

[Brad Z]

DOH! You're right. But it still won't matter if Wash Ctr has already handed you to Potomac as long as you say something like "Potomac, Cessna 123 would like to continue VFR to Manassas" rather than just "Cessna 123, cancel IFR". There won't be any need to enter the Bravo if you're heading to HEF from CSN. However, if you were headed to the other side of the Bravo from that position, it might bugger your chances of going through the B-space rather than around it.

Ron, an IFR flight plan terminating at CSN would not meet the requirements for admission into the SFRA.

 

[EdFred]

Ron, an IFR flight plan terminating at CSN would not meet the requirements for admission into the SFRA.

I would file to HEF via CSN. If I need to fly an approach it's going to be a crapshoot as to what I get for routing anyway - in which case i would file direct HEF, and wait for whatever routing I get to avoid IAD traffic.

 

[frfly172]

I like to use JYO for ease and convenience ,have family in Arlington. Before sfra used Potomac .

 

[flyingron]

When I say right off, I mean what appears to be easy directions, not that it borders 66. Though anything within 5 miles I consider to be "right off"

Two left turns and less than a mile and you're on the Greenway from JYO. No further turns until you actually arrive in Arlington.

 

[wsuffa]

Are you already inside the SFRA when doing that or outside it? Assuming I don't need to fly an instrument approach, and can cancel with Potomac while outside the SFRA I would probably file to CSN and then in through the FLUKY gate.

You can cancel outside. "Potomac, we'd like to proceed IFR to Manassas, can we cancel IFR and remain on the squawk?" But only do it when you're talking to Potomac Approach, NOT with center.