Argo movie - 747 takeoff

olasek

olasek

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olasek
Anybody watched the movie Argo?

Have you paid close attention to the Swissair 747 being chased by cars on runway during the takeoff at Tehran airport? I must have replayed this scene a dozen times because the whole thing in my opinion it is a perfect example how in otherwise well financed and polished movie lack of attention to detail and/or lack of technical expertise can lead to a totally botched execution. The physics of the takeoff, the relative speeds of cars/747, the view of the receding runway when viewed from inside the 747 - it was all wrong, not wrong by 10 or 20% but by 300%!
 
Most of the movie is a Hollywood exaggeration and out and out lies about what actually happened. That's why it got movie of the year. ;)
 
The worst part of that scene is that driving behind a 747 at full takeoff power is not possible. 60,000+ lb of thrust for each engine against a 5,000 lb vehicle is not good odds....
 
You have to realize these are the same people who filmed the scene where Bruce Willis was clinging on to the leading edge of a departing 747, reached down to the engine pylon and cranked open a valve labeled "Fuel Dump" after which he slid off the trailing edge onto an ice covered runway, lit the dumped fuel with a Bic lighter and watched as the flames raced after the now airborne behemoth and blew it out of the sky.

All they know is that we watched it, we bought it and we asked for more :rolleyes:
 
Silvaire said:
You have to realize these are the same people who filmed the scene where Bruce Willis was clinging on to the leading edge of a departing 747, reached down to the engine pylon and cranked open a valve labeled "Fuel Dump" after which he slid off the trailing edge onto an ice covered runway, lit the dumped fuel with a Bic lighter and watched as the flames raced after the now airborne behemoth and blew it out of the sky.

All they know is that we watched it, we bought it and we asked for more :rolleyes:
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Actually, I've done that. :yes: :rofl: ;)
 
I tried watching Argo on a flight across the Pacific recently, but it was so painfully slow I didn't finish it.

I think I switched it to some Bruce Willis thing where somebody blew up a 747 with a Bic lighter.
 
MAKG1 said:
The worst part of that scene is that driving behind a 747 at full takeoff power is not possible. 60,000+ lb of thrust for each engine against a 5,000 lb vehicle is not good odds....
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Yes! But what if the 747 is on a large treadmill and the vehicles are not? :goofy:
 
olasek said:
Anybody watched the movie Argo?

Have you paid close attention to the Swissair 747 being chased by cars on runway during the takeoff at Tehran airport? I must have replayed this scene a dozen times because the whole thing in my opinion it is a perfect example how in otherwise well financed and polished movie lack of attention to detail and/or lack of technical expertise can lead to a totally botched execution. The physics of the takeoff, the relative speeds of cars/747, the view of the receding runway when viewed from inside the 747 - it was all wrong, not wrong by 10 or 20% but by 300%!
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I dunno. Is that any more unrealistic than Denzel Washington rolling an MD-80 (or whatever it was)?

In any case it's not any worse than old Westerns where the protagonist would get 8 shots out of a Colt Peacemaker without reloading.

I think the last guy that tried to make a completely accurate aviation movie never got it done since he couldn't get financing because no one cared.
 
poweroff360 said:
I dunno. Is that any more unrealistic than Denzel Washington rolling an MD-80 (or whatever it was)?

In any case it's not any worse than old Westerns where the protagonist would get 8 shots out of a Colt Peacemaker without reloading.

I think the last guy that tried to make a completely accurate aviation movie never got it done since he couldn't get financing because no one cared.
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Wasn't Denzel....it was Witt Wittiker:D
 
poweroff360 said:
I dunno. Is that any more unrealistic than Denzel Washington rolling an MD-80 (or whatever it was)?
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That was obviously loosely based on Alaska Airlines Flight 261, they did attempt at one point to recover from an uncontrollable dive by inverting their MD-80 but, unlike Denzel, weren't successful.
 
Silvaire said:
You have to realize these are the same people who filmed the scene where Bruce Willis was clinging on to the leading edge of a departing 747, reached down to the engine pylon and cranked open a valve labeled "Fuel Dump" after which he slid off the trailing edge onto an ice covered runway, lit the dumped fuel with a Bic lighter and watched as the flames raced after the now airborne behemoth and blew it out of the sky.
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What?!! :confused: That never happened?? :hairraise:
 
Silvaire said:
That was obviously loosely based on Alaska Airlines Flight 261, they did attempt at one point to recover from an uncontrollable dive by inverting their MD-80 but, unlike Denzel, weren't successful.
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As tragic as that accident was, I'm still waiting for the movie. Which won't happen because no one really cares that a stabilator actuator rod had its threads stripped.

Olasek is all lit up that airplane movies aren't realistic. Or, movies that have airplanes aren't realistic.

Well, they tend not to be.

How about we argue about Waldo Pepper's Flying Circus, and how the guy didn't die realistically in the fire? It didn't really change the value of the movie, did it?

How would a movie studio make a story about AF447, where the crew crashed a perfectly good airplane?

No one cares.
 
What, Die Hard isn't real? You mean planes won't just circle until they run out of gas if they can't reach ATC?

Gee, I realize this is IAD, but when the controller got locked in the bathroom or whatever at DCA, they still managed to land themselves.
 
Nice timing. I read this post just a couple minutes before I popped in the Argo DVD.

Yeah, that whole CGI deal was just out of place.
 
"The willing suspension of disbelief." In college I had a whole class on "film and the willing suspension of disbelief." While some might call that class a total waste of time and money, it has been more beneficial to me in life than a lot of other classes that I took in college.:yes:
 
Silvaire said:
All they know is that we watched it, we bought it and we asked for more :rolleyes:
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Yeah, my point was only that this sequence did not belong to this particular movie, this genre of the movie. I recall a few air scenes in 007-Bond movies from 30-40 years ago and though totally fake they were reasonable well done within their scope. Here we have a movie that strive for realism and historical accuracy, had the latest movie making techniques at their disposal, where not only such a scene was totally unnecessary, it was so poorly done that a 10 year old could laugh.
 
olasek said:
...had the latest movie making techniques at their disposal..
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Although the era of computer generated graphic images has truly blossomed in the past decade or two and I fully admit that they were never able to successfully make a "Lord of the Rings" film prior to this happening it's advent also plays a role in scene making decisions of all films. It comes down to economics and logistics. Whereas in the past they would be forced to choreograph and plan an actual in-flight segment, or go to extremely elaborate measures such as constructing an entire waist high scale model of central Tokyo for a guy in a rubber monster suit to wade through and destroy, they can now turn to CGI.

and the results can sometimes, often times, look.....cheap.
 
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poweroff360 said:
In any case it's not any worse than old Westerns where the protagonist would get 8 shots out of a Colt Peacemaker without reloading.
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I want one of those horses that can run all day without getting winded. And, only 8 shots without reloading? Low budget film. :D

Then there was a western on TV a couple decades ago that had a beautiful sunset for the closing credits. Complete with a contrail forming through the middle of it. :D:D

And then the one that took place before the Civil War. With the "good guys" using Winchester lever action rifles. Yeah, right. :rolleyes2:
 
Read the real Argo, Master of Disguise by Mendez. He is a friend of mine. The stories he tell are unbelievable.
 
poweroff360 said:
Olasek is all lit up that airplane movies aren't realistic. ... Well, they tend not to be.

How about we argue about Waldo Pepper's Flying Circus, and how the guy didn't die realistically in the fire? It didn't really change the value of the movie, did it?
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Try being a cop and having to watch cop movies..... :mad2::mad2::mad2:
 
best line of the movie (and I usually don't promote profanity)

"Argo f* yourself!"
 
Hello grumpy old men. Argo was a MOVIE. See, sometimes in movies things happen that aren't necessarily possible, like air and explosions in outer space, or a guy building a flying super-powered suit of armor with today's technology. Sometimes these things are shown for their dramatic effect, and not because they're literally true.
 
Really?

I thought every movie was literally true. There are talking bugs and big hairy sweet monsters that live in closets and cowboy space captains that sleep with anything with legs.

The problem is, Argo billed itself as a true story.

Another problem is, suspension of disbelief has its limits.
 
steingar said:
Hello grumpy old men. Argo was a MOVIE.
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Yes it was, so what? There are different movies, with different expectations. If I go to watch James Bond I have different expectations than when I watch Schindler's List. Like Matthew best summed it up - this particular scene was out-of-place in this movie.
 
olasek said:
Yes it was, so what? There are different movies, with different expectations. If I go to watch James Bond I have different expectations than when I watch Schindler's List. Like Matthew best summed it up - this particular scene was out-of-place in this movie.
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I KNEW it!! Somebody reads my posts!

I've seen all kinds of movies, and I kind of get mad when, out of nowhere, there's a scene or dialog that just doesn't fit. It disturbs the suspension-of-disbelief force.

That happened here.
 
Matthew said:
That happened here.
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For me it was a double whammy.

The whole idea of creating this super 'close call' scenario ('close' measured in seconds) with the 747 was not only historically totally inaccurate but also was an unnecessary exaggeration and poor fit with the rest of the movie. From a political drama they all of sudden jump into some action/adventure genre.

But once they decided they wanted this highly elevated drama on the runway they totally botched the execution, frankly they should have asked some James Bond consultants who could show them how to do it right. 1965's Thunderball had some amazing air/landings/takeoffs special effects, no CGI.
 
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Haven't seen the movie, but I doubt it can top Chuck Norris in Delta Force. Grabs a rope hanging out the backdoor of a plane while standing on top of a motorcycle. Awesome!
 
JB1842 said:
Haven't seen the movie, but I doubt it can top Chuck Norris in Delta Force. Grabs a rope hanging out the backdoor of a plane while standing on top of a motorcycle. Awesome!
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Yeah - and that was real. No CGI there!!
 
JB1842 said:
Haven't seen the movie, but I doubt it can top Chuck Norris in Delta Force. Grabs a rope hanging out the backdoor of a plane while standing on top of a motorcycle. Awesome!
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Was that before or after he paddled through a barrage of automatic gunfire in a rubber boat?
 
Maxmosbey said:
"The willing suspension of disbelief." In college I had a whole class on "film and the willing suspension of disbelief." While some might call that class a total waste of time and money, it has been more beneficial to me in life than a lot of other classes that I took in college.:yes:
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Some films stretch my willing suspension of disbelief to the breaking point. Argo was a very enjoyable film, but I thought the last minute stuff in the terminal, and the whole chase down the runway scene, were laying on Hollywood cliches way to thickly for my taste.
 
For some reason I let the re-imaged Battlestar Galactica get away with just about everything including the ADF receiver in the Viper. :)
 
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