Are there quiet cabin GA planes?

SixPapaCharlie

SixPapaCharlie

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I have never been in a Cirrus or whatever the modern aviation equivalent of a BMW is.

When I take my headset off during flight it is crazy loud. You couldn't really have a conversation. So a couple things. When I was a kid dad spoke into a hand mic and listened over a speaker. He is outta town so I can't ask him now.

Were planes quieter or better insulated back then or was it just you don't know what you don't know?

Also I know there are 6 seater planes. Is it expected that all 6 people would be wearing headsets or are those larger planes more insulated so pax can have conversation back there?

Just curious if you can buy atmosphere in planes and if they used to be quieter.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I have never been in a Cirrus or whatever the modern aviation equivalent of a BMW is.

When I take my headset off during flight it is crazy loud. You couldn't really have a conversation. So a couple things. When I was a kid dad spoke into a hand mic and listened over a speaker. He is outta town so I can't ask him now.

Were planes quieter or better insulated back then or was it just you don't know what you don't know?

Also I know there are 6 seater planes. Is it expected that all 6 people would be wearing headsets or are those larger planes more insulated so pax can have conversation back there?

Just curious if you can buy atmosphere in planes and if they used to be quieter.
Click to expand...

I started flying with my father in the late 60's, and no, airplanes were just as loud then as they are now. The mics were more or less noise canceling, and the speaker was loud. I don't recall ever wearing hearing protection. The headsets you could get then more or less had metal arms with plastic tips that plugged into your ears. They weren't comfortable.

People who flew a lot usually had hearing loss. My father was a radio operator in a B-29 during Korea, and he was always somewhat hard of hearing.
 
We have a speaker but I have never really used it.
Next time I go up, I will get an ATIS in flight and see how loud it is.

I can't imagine trying to communicate that way but then again, I haven't had to.
Will be interesting.
 
I learned to fly in a 1967 172. When I flew a new Piper Warrior for the first time, I was amazed at how quiet it was. We were using handheld mikes and the ceiling speaker, too.

Dan
 
I too learned to fly in planes with speakers and no headsets. They were loud. My current ride seems a bit quieter. When I take off my headset its louder but not a lot. Still louder than my car though. We can talk in the Volkswagen while cruisin down the highway and its no trouble to hear and understand. On the other hand we have to yell in the Cessna and its still tough to understand. I've not flown in a Cirrus either so I can't tell you how loud they are but I have flown in a Rockwell 114 and it was a lot quieter than my Cessna. Still louder than the car but not too bad. I sat in one of the newer Cessna/Columbia composite planes and when I closed the door the noise from outside went away. Never got to fly in one though so still no help to you.
Lastly, one of the companies I worked for had a new (2000) Beech Kingair 350. It had noise canceling for the cabin and the pilots would occasionally scare the passengers in flight by turning it off and yelling at us. It made a huge difference. I wonder if there isn't something out there to do this with a normal cabin type 4 or 6 place? Should be doable with todays tech.

Frank
 
Pay extra to put thicker plexiglass in the windshield and good insulation in the upholstered sidewalls, and it makes a big difference. My C-172N has thick glass and Power-Flow exhaust, and it's about as quiet as any airplane I've flown. It would be comfortable without headsets, even on a long trip.

My Sport Cub LSA was very loud. Soundporoofing adds weight, and that's anathema in a light sport. When I instructed in the early 1970s one of my students owned American Yankee serial #7, and while all Yankees were loud, that early one was a doozy. To make matters worse, the cabin speaker was tinny and unreliable.

The worst I can remember, though, was the McCulloch J-2 Gyroplane. That was the only aircraft in our flight school in which we used headsets (this was 1971), and even then one's head pounded for hours after flying the beast.
 
Most airplanes I've owned I have removed the interiors and insulation, replaced the insulation with the high quality sound deadening type and replaced the interior with new. I also made sure to replace the firewall cover. This made a remarkable difference in cabin noise as does a thicker wind sheild and thicker side windows.
 
Pressurization seems to help a lot as well due to the beefier structure I assume. Or maybe just better quality fit/finish of these aircraft.
 
A well insulated Malibu with no pressure leaks is an amazingly quiet airplane in cruise. I installed the Aero Soundshield insulation system in a 1993 Mirage and a M20J once. The changes were dramatic. The only drawback was the extra weight.
 
When I first started flight lessons, we were shouting at each other, and using the overhead speaker in the Cherokee 140.

It sucked.

I then bought a pair of used headphones from my CFI. He charged me $7.00 for them, as he had built them up out of parts from several broken pairs of no-name headphones.

They were better than nothing.

Every GA plane I've been in has been crazy-loud. Our RV-8, with that bubble canopy focusing the sound waves in the center of your brain like a parabolic reflector, is like the hammers of hell without ANR headsets. The back seat is especially loud.

That's one thing people forget when they pine for the glory days of airline travel. Yes, the food was great, and the stewardesses were gorgeous knockouts who lit your cigarette, but the planes themselves were uncomfortably loud. Pressurized jetliners just whisper, by comparison.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
We have a speaker but I have never really used it.
Next time I go up, I will get an ATIS in flight and see how loud it is.

I can't imagine trying to communicate that way but then again, I haven't had to.
Will be interesting.
Click to expand...
You should definitely do more than just ATIS with it. I personally think everyone should do it occasionally just to ensure everything works and they're comfortable with it if actually needed. There are stories out there of people's headset breaking and they didn't know how to activate/use the overhead speaker in flight.

For an unpressurized, the Caravan is surprisingly quiet, even at high RPM/torque. The cockpit is a bit louder, but in the back it's just fine for normal indoor conversation levels, especially with the cockpit partitions.

The only other one I've flown in the back (besides a flag/domestic carrier) was a 58 P-Baron. It seemed a bit louder than the 'Van, but we still didn't need to scream at each other.
 
Twins are typically quieter than singles, three bladed props quieter than two, geared engines quieter than direct drive, turbo quieter than naturally aspirated, pressurized quieter than non, 6cyl quieter than 4. Good insulation will equal any two or more of these factors combined although the really good stuff with lead in it is prohibitively heavy for aircraft use.

A 421 is the only plane I have been able to comfortably use the speaker and hand mic for coms, although my turbo Travelair was pretty close in econo cruise up high.
 
If a couple of pair of QT Halo headsets won't do the trick, you could always buy a glider...
 
Piston singles are loud usually, although the Cirrus and Columbia aren't bad. The 310 I still use a headset for comfort/fatigue, but don't "need" it. Our 2 year old won't usually wear a headset for the whole flight, and the sound never bugs him in the back seat. Of course, when he's in the plane I also fly at 2300 RPM instead of 2500. The plane is also quieter from dynamic prop balancing and aftermarket insulation that was put in when the interior was redone by the previous owner.

Active noise canceling for GA does exist, but the systems I've seen for piston GA are now out of production. They were expensive, as I hear.

Cabin class twins are where you get into not needing headsets, especially pressurized. My first trip in the Navajo with 7 passengers I was the only one with a headset. Once we got to uncontrolled Canada airspace and I was let loose, I took off my headset, turned on the speaker, and the passenger in the right seat and I had a conversation. Not much louder than my 3000GT VR4 (which is loud for a street car). The 421s are the best with geared engines. I liked the turboprops as well for noise.

Yeah, in the old days it was just loud. I once asked an old flight test engineer I knew what they wore for headsets in the old days, having a good idea of the response. "Headsets?! We didn't have any ****ing headsets! All of us wear hearing aids now, why do you think that is?"
 
First thing my uncle Lloyd, deaf as a post from flying, said when I started flying was, "Get a good headset and always wear it."
 
Al Gore hadn't fully developed the internet when I learned to fly so there were no forums like this and I didn't even know headsets were available. I learned in a 150 with the handheld mic and overhead speaker and was always impressed that my CFI could understand everything perfectly while I couldn't make anything out. I'd request takeoff and wait to hear some garble come through the speaker and would take off, hoping that's what the controller said.

I thought I was in heaven with my first cheap passive headset. So when Bose came along it was nothing short of a miracle.

Now, if I could regain the hearing I lost to AC/DC in the early 80s.
 
PA32's can be pretty quiet. The forward baggage compartment is a nice buffer for the engine and the prop is a long ways in front of you.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I have never been in a Cirrus or whatever the modern aviation equivalent of a BMW is.

When I take my headset off during flight it is crazy loud. You couldn't really have a conversation. So a couple things. When I was a kid dad spoke into a hand mic and listened over a speaker. He is outta town so I can't ask him now.

Were planes quieter or better insulated back then or was it just you don't know what you don't know?

Also I know there are 6 seater planes. Is it expected that all 6 people would be wearing headsets or are those larger planes more insulated so pax can have conversation back there?

Just curious if you can buy atmosphere in planes and if they used to be quieter.
Click to expand...

No, they didn't used to be quieter.

When I learned to fly, headsets were a luxury. We just put up with the noise. But after my first student crosscountry I immediately ordered a couple of headsets and a portable intercom (one headset for my instructor to use). I had a very noticable temporary threshold shift from 2.5 hours in the 172.
 
Bryan,

Keep in mind that our Tampicos have squat for noise insulation. Plus what is there is probably crumbing to dust. The stuff on the cabin side of the firewall crumbles to dust when I touch it. It is on my list to replace. I'm not going to try and add insulation or interior to the painted metal interior of my TB9, but I will replace the old foam.

I started flying in September of 1990. By October I had my first set of Dave Clark headsets. When I started back flying again in 2010 I bought a new set of plaine Dave Clarks and sent my old set out for overhaul. In 2011 I bought a set of Zulu II ANC headsets and I love them.

Jim
 
Had an FBO rental checkout not too many years back.

The CFI was old school, very hard of hearing, and insisted we did the checkout using the hand-held mike, overhead speaker, and no headseats.

When asked why, his reasoning was that pilots these day have become too dependent on headsets, and wouldn't know what to do if they ever failed. :rolleyes:

My ears rang the rest of the afternoon. Never again.
 
I know Mooney has made great strides in this regard: My 2008 Acclaim is much quieter than my 1998 Encore was, in spite of having a bigger engine. You can carry on a conversation in cruise and my wife often rides along without her headset. Still too noisy for me, though.
 
ElPaso Pilot said:
Had an FBO rental checkout not too many years back.

The CFI was old school, very hard of hearing, and insisted we did the checkout using the hand-held mike, overhead speaker, and no headseats.

When asked why, his reasoning was that pilots these day have become too dependent on headsets, and wouldn't know what to do if they ever failed. :rolleyes:

My ears rang the rest of the afternoon. Never again.
Click to expand...

I would have passed. I need my hearing more than I need a checkride with such a foolish CFI.
 
From Cessna: Wings for The World by Bill Thompson:
In early 1971 the U.S. Navy decided to extend its "quiet airplane" research project to an airplane that was more conventional than the previously-tested Lockheed version of a modified sailplane with an overhead propeller shaft driving a slow-turning propeller. The author recalls one or two of our engineers starting design work to install a 185 hp Curtiss-Wright Wankel engine in our C-177B prototype. This liquid-cooled engine had a very high-rated RPM, and a complicated multi-stage belt-driven speed reduction system was needed to drive a slow-turning, 100-inch diameter propeller. In addition, a long external tail-pipe fed exhaust gases into a monstrous muffler located in the tailcone. [...] Although the Navy was well pleased, this configuration was impractical for adoption in lightplanes because of the space, weight and cost penalties for the drive reduction system and the outsized muffler.
Click to expand...
 
Kiddo's Driver said:
Bryan,

Keep in mind that our Tampicos have squat for noise insulation. Plus what is there is probably crumbing to dust. The stuff on the cabin side of the firewall crumbles to dust when I touch it. It is on my list to replace. I'm not going to try and add insulation or interior to the painted metal interior of my TB9, but I will replace the old foam.

I started flying in September of 1990. By October I had my first set of Dave Clark headsets. When I started back flying again in 2010 I bought a new set of plaine Dave Clarks and sent my old set out for overhaul. In 2011 I bought a set of Zulu II ANC headsets and I love them.

Jim
Click to expand...


True these really are tin cans. I have the bose a20 but from time to time I remove them just to hear the difference.

I am not sure how your plane is but ours is just metal.
I think the only insulation is at the base beneath the doors.

Very little insulation in this thing at all. But the view is great!
1039733_10201461486926017_1698762451_o.jpg
 
I replaced/added "aviation grade" insulation throughout my airplane last year when I was replacing all of the air ducts. I don't think I noticed any difference in noise level.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
True these really are tin cans. I have the bose a20 but from time to time I remove them just to hear the difference.

I am not sure how your plane is but ours is just metal.
I think the only insulation is at the base beneath the doors.

Very little insulation in this thing at all. But the view is great!
1039733_10201461486926017_1698762451_o.jpg
Click to expand...
Mine is the same. Take a look at the TB20 interior photos on www.socata.org. I bet they are quieter even with the much bigger engine.

Jim
 
The Navajo is quiet enough to talk with only moderately raising your voice.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
 
Challenged said:
I replaced/added "aviation grade" insulation throughout my airplane last year when I was replacing all of the air ducts. I don't think I noticed any difference in noise level.
Click to expand...

Gotta do the windscreen, and get the thickest avail. I estimate 75% of all the noise comes through the windscreen as vibration from the prop pulses. Next, for whistles do the door and vent windows. I did these two on my Bonanza, and it was very noticeable reduction. Now, I sold that plane, and once again have a pounding, whistling thrum going on. Grrrrrr.
 
ElPaso Pilot said:
Had an FBO rental checkout not too many years back.

The CFI was old school, very hard of hearing, and insisted we did the checkout using the hand-held mike, overhead speaker, and no headseats.

When asked why, his reasoning was that pilots these day have become too dependent on headsets, and wouldn't know what to do if they ever failed. :rolleyes:

My ears rang the rest of the afternoon. Never again.
Click to expand...

Gee, I wonder why he was hard of hearing? What a tool.
 
colojo said:
I know Mooney has made great strides in this regard: My 2008 Acclaim is much quieter than my 1998 Encore was, in spite of having a bigger engine. You can carry on a conversation in cruise and my wife often rides along without her headset. Still too noisy for me, though.
Click to expand...

Propellers have come a long way, too. And since I think your new one is turbo, that quiets exhaust noise significantly.

On the 310, I'd love a pair of new style Hartzell or McCauley props that are quieter and more efficient. They're also cost-prohibitive and not STC'd.
 
Cirrus SR20 - Loud, but not too bad
Cirrus SR22T - Slightly less noisy, but still requires pax headsets to hear comfortably.
Any other SEL Piston i've flown (C172, C165, C182, Arrow II, Warrior, Cub, etc.) - Loud
Piper Malibu and Mirage - Can have conversation if no leaks and has sound deadening insulation.
King Air 90 - Noisy but okay without headset.
King Air 100, 200, 350 - Quiet enough to think but still has the engine drown
Light-mid Jets (Citations, Lears, etc) - Noisy, but no headaches unless engines are not synced.

As I'm sure we all know.... A quality, comfortable, noise cancelling headset does wonders.
 
GCA319 said:
Gee, I wonder why he was hard of hearing? What a tool.
Click to expand...

Think I just made a connection... "Hard of Head" & "Hard of Hearing" seem to go hand in hand... very much like Peanut Butter & Chocolate or Beans & Franks. :)
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Propellers have come a long way, too. And since I think your new one is turbo, that quiets exhaust noise significantly.
Click to expand...

Your point about the props is well taken. The Encore had a two-blade paddle prop while the Acclaim has a three-blade scimitar prop. They're both turbos, though.
 
Socata TBMs are pretty quiet. When I win the lottery, it will be one of the planes I buy. I started training in a C152 with the ceiling speaker and hand mike. It was a couple of years before the instructor suggested a headset. I bought a Sigtronics and a PTT. It helped a million.
 
I know on 180's, and maybe all 18x's, if you remove the wing root access fairings and use a good military grade duct tape to cover the holes up in there, it makes a big difference in noise and heating in the cabin.

Taping over cabin vent holes in the wing leading edge in the winter will cut down on noise. Some call this "a poor man's STOL kit" claiming it decreases stall break separation at the wing root a little.

Just generally sealing up the cabin and covering frame holes helped mine a lot. But it's still loud enough I won't be throwing away my Zulu's. :redface:
 
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