Are airliners headed into uncharted territory?

[Henning]

So if cargo is more profitable and the airlines back then were carrying more cargo than passengers, why did so many airlines struggle financially? Why don't they today reduce the number of passengers they carry so they can carry more cargo?

Because of our general economic model of competition, and price undercutting into loss ranges on some routes to drive smaller competitors out of business consolidating market share which boosts stock valuation. Once you add market speculation to an industry, then real numbers no longer matter, just the numbers that drive perception. The overall goal of a business is to grow shareholder value, that is not quite the same as business value as "corporate raider" mentality can provide a better shareholder value than a profitable business depending on the value the majority shareholders are looking for.

IOW, Deregulation of the airlines is what created this situation. Good for consumer prices, bad for airline market stability.

 

[3393RP]

Calling bs on you here. If you have the throttles set for flex takeoff (which they did), the plane is slow and the fence is coming up higher than it should, anything besides firewalling the Go levers is "saving the engines"

"Flex takeoff" didn't exist in the days of JT8Ds and analog engine controls. EPRs were a calculated value, and anything above that value could theoretically cause catastrophic damage the engines.

The Air Florida pilots had an EPR value calculated, and according to cockpit displays the engines were at max thrust. They had no way of knowing the display was erroneous, and had no reason to believe increasing the TLA would produce more power.

It all happened in a few moments, and they didn't digest all of the things that were happening quickly enough to prevent the crash.

 

[ktup-flyer]

Delta finally retired the DC-9's that they inherited from NW. The last DC-9 was built 32 years before retirement, some of the ones DL got were >40 years old.

So, yeah, some did run that old in pax service.

Older stuff has been retired now primarily over fuel and MX costs.

I loved the DC-9. Nothing in service now is older than the DC-10. Can't beat the sound of JT8Ds

 

[3393RP]

I loved the DC-9. Nothing in service now is older than the DC-10. Can't beat the sound of JT8Ds

American is still flying a few MD-80s, and when they pass over my house I sometimes think about how many JT8Ds have flown in the last 50 years.

A little factoid from the internet:

More than 14,000 JT8D engines have been produced, totaling more than one-half billion hours of service with more than 350 operators making it the most popular of all low-bypass turbofan engines ever produced.

One of these days the last of them will be taken out of service, the end of an era.

 

[Ted]

It won't be long for the JT8D to become functionally extinct. Almost all the 727s are gone. Zero G Corp has theirs and a few freighters are still out there.

 

[Sundancer]

I'd have a little more trepidation about the guys up front handling an anomaly, versus a catastrophic material failure.

I was re-reading Martha Lunken in Flying; Euro-airlines putting guys in the right seat with 60 PIC hours and 12 landings (or numbers roughly to that effect) - they're Sierra Hotel on FMS, etc., but pretty much worthless as hand-flying pilots. I think she said a Chinese airline fines its pilots caught hand-flying their aircraft.

Also saw something from an "older" airline pilot, who reported his co-pilot was horrified at him hand-flying the aircraft at high altitude. . .then again, not likely he'd be the one flying it into a stall while climbing over weather. Or hold the stick back all. the. way. down. to impact.