Apparent plane crash on TPC Scottsdale Golf Course

hindsight2020 said:
...To which I say, yeah right.. I can see MAYBE a 5 seat option on that airframe and you get to lean on the bags like in the original Apache (which actually has legroom in the baggage area), but six adults in a PA-24? :no:

...
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That was my reaction too. PA-24...six seats?? Seriously. Got several friends that own Comanches and not a one of those planes has more than 4 seats; I didn't realize Piper ever made a Comanche with more than 4.

Sort of like those enter via the baggage door third row seats for kids in some of the early Beechcrafts.
Can you imagine trying to market an airplane with that kind of passenger amenities today. :rofl:
 
hindsight2020 said:
He's mistaken. According to the International Comanche Society (love how type clubs like to name themselves with an official air lol, I digress):

“There were never any “fuselage plugs” or stretch of the fuselage aft of the firewall on any model Comanche,”
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I agree, that the Comanche’s external dimensions from firewall aft were never changed (contrary to the belief of many). I assumed, though, that the Red Board poster meant that the interior of the cabin was a bit longer, due to a change to the aft cabin bulkhead. Maybe I misinterpreted him, though.
 
CC268 said:
Well maybe they were all good then! Lol
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Not really what I was implying but I can see how you may have taken it that way. My point was that there was supposedly an experienced pilot (CFI) that should have known better.

I’m not even thinking about from a legal position. Simply an experienced pilot that looks at the situation and says. You know guys this is a bad idea and we can’t do this flight. Somebody stays here.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Freaked me out for a minute. I went to high school in Tempe with an Anand Patel. Fortunately not the same dude.

Very sad stuff.
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Wow that’s nuts...not exactly a common name
 
evapilotaz said:
Sad! It makes me sick that this could have been prevented. It seems like these kids had more money than common sense.
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That sounds about right...judging from some of the social media accounts I’ve seen so far.
 
arkvet said:
I’m not even thinking about from a legal position. Simply an experienced pilot that looks at the situation and says. You know guys this is a bad idea and we can’t do this flight. Somebody stays here.
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So many pilot mill CFIs out there know nothing about airplanes other than 172s and Seminoles. Not saying this guy was one of them, but most people I know would see a 6 place Comanche and ask a lot of questions because 6 place and Comanche don't really belong in the same conversation. A 0-CFI that doesn't know anything about being a pilot other than what he learned in the last 4 months probably sees 6 seats and says "we're good".
 
GRG55 said:
That was my reaction too. PA-24...six seats?? Seriously. Got several friends that own Comanches and not a one of those planes has more than 4 seats; I didn't realize Piper ever made a Comanche with more than 4.

Sort of like those enter via the baggage door third row seats for kids in some of the early Beechcrafts.
Can you imagine trying to market an airplane with that kind of passenger amenities today. :rofl:
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I own a 260B. I’ve used seats 5/6 quite a lot. In fact, it was a primary selling point with my wife. The most common occupants of those seats are either my wife, my mother in law, or 8-year old daughter.

You need the smallest/lightest people in those seats, and you need to really analyze the W/B calcs. But, for smaller people, you can certainly put 5 (or six) with no bags and less than full fuel.
 
Pilawt said:
I assumed, though, that the Red Board poster meant that the interior of the cabin was a bit longer, due to a change to the aft cabin bulkhead. Maybe I misinterpreted him, though.
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I believe thats what he meant. Moving the aft bulkhead would change the arm of the kiddie seats explaining the lower weight rating.

Third row seats in the A36 have a weight limitation. They are adult size seats and you have to be careful who you put in there.
 
Unfortunately for the families, or maybe fortunately for the investigation, I'm thinking that video will surface or be found from inside that aircraft when things went bad. Not something I really want to see or hear, but if it exists hopefully some good will come from it in helping to understand what happened.
 
PaulS said:
Unfortunately for the families, or maybe fortunately for the investigation, I'm thinking that video will surface or be found from inside that aircraft when things went bad. Not something I really want to see or hear, but if it exists hopefully some good will come from it in helping to understand what happened.
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Hopefully the NTSB got it before anyone else....
 
PaulS said:
Unfortunately for the families, or maybe fortunately for the investigation, I'm thinking that video will surface or be found from inside that aircraft when things went bad. Not something I really want to see or hear, but if it exists hopefully some good will come from it in helping to understand what happened.
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I’m not familiar with how these accident scenes would look but wouldn’t it be likely that the phones burned up in the wreckage. That was a nasty fire. Lots of fuel. It would take some luck for a phone to get outside that fire I would think.

Y’all mentioning that reminds me of the video of the people in the helo on the way to the wedding when they entered IMC. Wish I’d have never seen that.
 
arkvet said:
I’m not familiar with how these accident scenes would look but wouldn’t it be likely that the phones burned up in the wreckage. That was a nasty fire. Lots of fuel. It would take some luck for a phone to get outside that fire I would think.

Y’all mentioning that reminds me of the video of the people in the helo on the way to the wedding when they entered IMC. Wish I’d have never seen that.
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I have seen that one too, now I can’t unsee it☹️


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Lachlan said:
I feel so much better when ugly people die, don’t you? ;)
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Heh. Not what I was insinuating. Just making a statement.
Piperonca said:
Ryanb said what some of us were thinking. It is a shame either way.
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Yes it definitely is :(

Lachlan said:
But he’ll never run around, or desert you. (Or come up with anything original.) :)
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I found a little something that I need help identifying.. if I provide a link would you help? :D
 
arkvet said:
I’m not familiar with how these accident scenes would look but wouldn’t it be likely that the phones burned up in the wreckage. That was a nasty fire. Lots of fuel. It would take some luck for a phone to get outside that fire I would think.

Y’all mentioning that reminds me of the video of the people in the helo on the way to the wedding when they entered IMC. Wish I’d have never seen that.
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Live streaming, maybe? It's probably already on the "cloud" somewhere. The men in suits and sunglasses probably have it locked up already...
 
Ryanb said:
I found a little something that I need help identifying.. if I provide a link would you help? :D
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I think you should ask your father what that little thing is you found. (Seems like you're a little late in that discovery, but I'm not judging... :))

The pics of the crash site look like the aircraft impacted earth at a pretty steep angle, unless I'm seeing things wrong. If it was engine failure, with an attempted forced landing, it seems like there would have been a longer (stretched out) crash site. If it was a cg issue with a stall/spin, that would be fairly consistent with the size of the wreckage and subsequent area of the site. All just wild guesses...
 
I'm sure many members here have lost a friend or family member in a crash. Multiply that grief by six and you can appreciate the magnitude of the loss families and friends are feeling.

Many years ago a crash took six people I knew, all but two from different families. I thought about giving up flying after that, and the obscene horror of the event is still easily recalled.

I'm much more circumspect in my attitude towards crashes and pilot error because of it. Knowing what caused it doesn't make it any easier to bear.
 
So the latest this morning in the news was the CFI was ATP rated, had flown gigs in corp jets, and was a Cirrus instructor. This one is going to be interesting.
 
Bill Jennings said:
So the latest this morning in the news was the CFI was ATP rated, had flown gigs in corp jets, and was a Cirrus instructor. This one is going to be interesting.
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Crazy
 
He was also an CFII All of that at the age of 26 I think it said.
 
Grum.Man said:
He was also an CFII All of that at the age of 26 I think it said.
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As a life long non-pro pilot it often occurs to me that one key to a long life in aviation is surviving the stuff one does in one’s early years. Getting skills, experience, and hormonal maturity without killing yourself or others.

RIP, we lost some nice folks in an unforgiving situation.


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Instructor was Erik Kenneth Valente.

Relatively recent ATP:

Certificate: AIRLINE TRANSPORT PILOT
Date of Issue: 3/15/2018

Ratings:
AIRLINE TRANSPORT PILOT
AIRPLANE MULTIENGINE LAND
COMMERCIAL PRIVILEGES
AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE LAND

Type Ratings:
A/CE-500 A/EA-500 A/LR-60

Limits:
ENGLISH PROFICIENT.
EA-500 LR-60 SIC PRIVILEGES ONLY.

And flight instructor

Certificate: FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR
Date of Issue: 3/15/2018

Ratings:
FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR
AIRPLANE SINGLE AND MULTIENGINE
INSTRUMENT AIRPLANE


Limits:
VALID ONLY WHEN ACCOMPANIED BY PILOT CERTIFICATE NO. . EXPIRES: 30 JUN 2018.

Do we know where he trained and worked?
 
Appears to be pilot’s LinkedIn profile:

Experience

Ventures Inc.
Corporate pilot, Flight Department Co-Chief
Ventures Inc.
May 2014 – Present (4 years)

Cirrus Design Corporation
Contract Pilot
Cirrus Design Corporation
October 2011 – Present (6 years 7 months)

Memley Aviation, Inc.
Corporate Pilot
Memley Aviation, Inc.
February 2014 – August 2014 (7 months)

Elite Flight Training & Management
Chief Pilot
Elite Flight Training & Management
January 2010 – January 2014 (4 years 1 month)

College of Southern Nevada
Adjunct Faculty
College of Southern Nevada
August 2011 – January 2013 (1 year 6 months)

Education
The University of North Dakota
The University of North Dakota
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
Appears to be pilot’s LinkedIn profile:

Experience

Ventures Inc.
Corporate pilot, Flight Department Co-Chief
Ventures Inc.
May 2014 – Present (4 years)

Cirrus Design Corporation
Contract Pilot
Cirrus Design Corporation
October 2011 – Present (6 years 7 months)

Memley Aviation, Inc.
Corporate Pilot
Memley Aviation, Inc.
February 2014 – August 2014 (7 months)

Elite Flight Training & Management
Chief Pilot
Elite Flight Training & Management
January 2010 – January 2014 (4 years 1 month)

College of Southern Nevada
Adjunct Faculty
College of Southern Nevada
August 2011 – January 2013 (1 year 6 months)

Education
The University of North Dakota
The University of North Dakota
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Some things don’t add up. He was 26? Just got his CFI and ATP in mid March? Yet he was Chief Pilot at Elite when he was 18? Adjunct Faculty at 19? Seems much too intelligent to stuff 6 people into that airplane...
 
Lachlan said:
Some things don’t add up. He was 26? Just got his CFI and ATP in mid March? Yet he was Chief Pilot at Elite when he was 18? Adjunct Faculty at 19? Seems much too intelligent to stuff 6 people into that airplane...
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That's where my mind was going..
 
Grum.Man said:
He was also an CFII All of that at the age of 26 I think it said.
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He was on a fast track. But by itself the age isn't disqualifying. I'd fly with David White or Matt Guttmiller with no second thoughts.
 
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