AOPA Life Insurance is a joke!

orange

orange

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Orange
When I started training last year, I looked into my life insurance policy that I have through work. I don't know who the provider is, possibly Hartford. It has an exclusion for general aviation (pilot or passenger). Little about me: I'm just under 40 years old, work on wall Street (I make a good salary), and I have a wife and 4 kids that I want to make sure are provided for if something tragic were to happen to me.

About 2 months ago, I applied for the AOPA life insurance (20 year term). THE ONLY REASON THAT I DID WAS TO COVER ME FOR AN AVIATION RELATED DEATH. During the phone interview, he took all my info and we covered the aviation questions, etc. He quoted me about $35/mo for $250k. They scheduled a nurse to come to my house to draw blood, weight, height, measurements, and do a full interview. It happened, and they requested my medical records and sent me an aviation questionnaire which I answered truthfully (student pilot, 100 hours, planning to fly about 60-80 hours/year, etc). After 2 months, they finally issued my policy. I looked it over and didn't see anything about aviation. And the policy premium total was in the low $200's, almost half of what they quoted me. They don't usually lower the price. I knew something was up. I called the 800 number and the rep told me that it's just a standard non-tobacco policy (not including aviation). What a bunch of idiots!!!!

So she said that she spoke to the underwriter and they would re-issue the policy to include aviation. Nothing for a week. Now, I got a letter today saying that unfortunately, they are not able to issue policy as requested, for the reason below: AVIATION. :rofl: I got denied AOPA life Insurance because I expected it to cover aviation.

WTF?????? AOPA Life Insurance (provider is Voya Financial aka Reliastar) is some kind of a scam, like AOPA itself, charging annual dues and begging for money monthly for basically nothing in return.

I just wasted 2 months dealing with these idiots. Save yourself the trouble and look for another company, I will.
 
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All they really do is brokering of services. I'm sure they get some type of referral fee. But the second you talk to someone else their function is done. I talked to them twice, once with financing and once with insurance. Ended up just paying cash for a cheaper plane and calling some insurance companies on my own.

Oh and Hartford doesn't automatically exclude General Aviation. I have a large policy through work with them.
 
I do wish AOPA provided more direct services like quality life insurance, and you would think they would be able to do so with a membership base of over 350,000 people. I'd personally love to be able to get a reasonable rate on long term disability.
 
Isn't New York State one of the states that doesn't allow insurance companies to penalize pilots?
I'll check into it, but I'm sure some insurance agent told me that the "no pilot" clause was null and void in New York State.
 
I'm confused. In life insurance, the rule usually is, if it isn't excluded, it's covered. So if general aviation isn't mentioned in your policy, then you're covered. The issue with most policies is that if you disclose general aviation activity, they'll put an exclusion in the policy. So did the policy exclude GA, or was it silent?
 
I am waiting for Ton Haines from AOPA to chime in with some logical excuse..:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:
 
I got a term policy from one of the AOPA vendors that explicitly includes aviation. Something doesn't sound correct here.
 
All the AOPA recommended services are no good to anybody but AOPA, I've foiund.
You can always do better on your own.
 
Lindberg said:
I'm confused. In life insurance, the rule usually is, if it isn't excluded, it's covered. So if general aviation isn't mentioned in your policy, then you're covered. The issue with most policies is that if you disclose general aviation activity, they'll put an exclusion in the policy. So did the policy exclude GA, or was it silent?
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orange said:
When I started training last year, I looked into my life insurance policy that I have through work. It has an exclusion for general aviation (pilot or passenger).
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It helps to read to avoid confusion. haha
 
JimNtexas said:
I got a term policy from one of the AOPA vendors that explicitly includes aviation. Something doesn't sound correct here.
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That's what I wanted and applied for from the get go. But they issued the policy with no aviation coverage. Then when I asked about adding aviation coverage, I was denied.
 
Shepherd said:
Isn't New York State one of the states that doesn't allow insurance companies to penalize pilots?
I'll check into it, but I'm sure some insurance agent told me that the "no pilot" clause was null and void in New York State.
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Thanks, I would appreciate it.
 
Shepherd said:
Isn't New York State one of the states that doesn't allow insurance companies to penalize pilots?
I'll check into it, but I'm sure some insurance agent told me that the "no pilot" clause was null and void in New York State.
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I just pulled this: http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/nycode/ISC/32/3203

A life insurance policy delivered or issued for delivery in this state may exclude or restrict liability in the event of death occurring while the insured is resident in a specified foreign country or countries, but shall not contain any provision excluding or restricting liability in the event of death caused in a certain specified manner, except as a result of: (A) conditions specified in subsection (c) hereof, subject to the terms of such subsection; (B) suicide within two years from the date of issue of the policy; (C) aviation under conditions specified in the policy
 
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AOPA is a broker and is going to sell the policy that makes them the most money, period. That they are trying to hawk a policy that doesn't include GA is no surprise. AOPA has been failing GA for a long time now.
 
orange said:
It helps to read to avoid confusion. haha
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Are you complaining about your work policy or the AOPA policy? Of the AOPA policy, you said, "I looked it over and didn't see anything about aviation. And the policy premium total was in the low $200's, almost half of what they quoted me." Those "complaints" both appear to be good things: no aviation exclusion, and a preferred rate. So I still don't know if you have a legitimate gripe, or just didn't understand the terms of the policy you were issued.
 
OP: The good news is that the referral fee AOPA got will pay for 1000 more life insurance policy flyers to be mailed over the next year and a couple free hats as well
 
orange said:
I just pulled this: http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/nycode/ISC/32/3203

A life insurance policy delivered or issued for delivery in this state may exclude or restrict liability in the event of death occurring while the insured is resident in a specified foreign country or countries, but shall not contain any provision excluding or restricting liability in the event of death caused in a certain specified manner, except as a result of: [...] (C) aviation under conditions specified in the policy;
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Thanks. So NY law explicitly does permit an aviation exclusion in insurance policies.
 
Ok, so here's a thought. If you have adequate life insurance through work, and are just looking to buy coverage for your accidental death in an airplane, why not just purchase AD&D coverage Via endorsement or a separate policy at the same limit as your life policy through you current carrier or AOPA?
 
Chip Sylverne said:
Ok, so here's a thought. If you have adequate life insurance through work, and are just looking to buy coverage for your accidental death in an airplane, why not just purchase AD&D coverage Via endorsement or a separate policy at the same limit as your life policy through you current carrier or AOPA?
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That's a good suggestion. I hadn't thought of that. I have AD&D through work also, but it probably excludes aviation also. I have to look into it. Thanks
 
orange said:
That's a good suggestion. I hadn't thought of that. I have AD&D through work also, but it probably excludes aviation also. I have to look into it. Thanks
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Maybe you just want to rant against AOPA, but I will try one more time. Did the Reliastar policy offered through AOPA exclude GA, or, as you said in your OP, did you "look[] it over and didn't see anything about aviation"?

If it is the latter, the you have coverage for death by GA. I actually have a policy from Reliastar, it has no exclusion for GA, so I'm covered. Life insurance policies don't list the causes of death they cover, they list the causes of death they don't cover.
 
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Lindberg said:
Maybe you just want to rant against AOPA, but I will try one more time. Did the Reliastar policy offered through AOPA exclude GA, or, as you said in your OP, did you "look[] it over and didn't see anything about aviation"?
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Yes, it excluded GA. They offered me a prefferred non-tobacco policy but could not approve me for the policy that I applied for, for the reason of aviation.
 
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I sense half of the story is being told
 
Maybe I'm lucky...my work provides a group policy for half a mil and its $26 a check All its says if if you are in the commissions of a crime whe you are killed, we don't pay. Otherwise, have at it. I read it cover to cover and was shocked at how little it had in it. Basically, you die, we pay. You are car jacking some of duty cop and get plugged full of lead, you're on your own doiche bag!

I expected to see at least suicide and GA on there, cuz we know suck starting a pistol is usually not a healthy habit. And GA planes fall out of the sky at a rate 100 to 1 over cars flipping and ejecting their passengers, so that's usually prohibited too.
 
MichiPilot said:
I sense half of the story is being told
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Well, the story seems to be changing. The policy went from not mentioning aviation to excluding it. If it really is a standard non-tobacco policy, there's no aviation exclusion unless it is added. I assume that APOA simply refers through a broker who arranges a policy with no exclusion despite aviation activity. Whoever answers the phone at the Reliastar 800 number has probably never heard of AOPA.
 
Lindberg said:
Well, the story seems to be changing. The policy went from not mentioning aviation to excluding it.
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I think you should re-read the OP. Specifically the second to the last sentence of the second paragraph. The story hasn't changed at all...your accusations are unfounded.
 
timwinters said:
I think you should re-read the OP. Specifically the second to the last sentence of the second paragraph. The story hasn't changed at all...your accusations are unfounded.
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I thought I was missing something in thinking the questions/accusations were all answered in the first post
 
Try Genworth. I got my policy through them.
 
American Airlines credit union offered free accidental death life insurance for members. It specifically excluded pilots and aviation accidents. It was recently amended to cover pilots who are killed accidentally while acting as crew of a scheduled airline. Specifically excludes GA.
 
What's always surprising to me is that the dozens of things that are similarly dangerous (e.g. riding a motorcycle, riding a bicycle, surfing) aren't generally excluded.

Seems like it's the standard visceral reaction. A plane failing out of the sky just *feels* pretty terrifying and gets peoples attention more than getting hit by a truck while out riding your bike (as happened to a pilot I knew recently).
 
I've had a few life insurance policies over the years from agents who were friends. None excluded aviation or GA. It affected the rate a little but otherwise was no issue at all. These stories are very different from my own experiences. I suspect the agent is what makes the difference.
 
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My term life policy (Jackson National Life) excluded it for two years, then it was fine. I got the policy several years before I started flight training.

John
 
timwinters said:
I think you should re-read the OP. Specifically the second to the last sentence of the second paragraph. The story hasn't changed at all...your accusations are unfounded.
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I've read it very carefully. Specifically this part:

After 2 months, they finally issued my policy. I looked it over and didn't see anything about aviation. And the policy premium total was in the low $200's, almost half of what they quoted me. They don't usually lower the price. I knew something was up.
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So the OP got his policy. It didn't say anything about aviation. It was a "standard non-tobacco policy," which means that aviation is not excluded. So the OP received exactly what he wanted, and he even got a lower premium than he expected because he qualified for a preferred, rather than standard rate. It looks like the agent he worked with might not have explained to him how the insurance would come out. So he was confused and called a general 800 number which may have nothing to do with AOPA, and his question got routed to an underwriter who looked at the app again, saw GA activities and did what they usually do, reissued the policy with a GA exclusion.

I have several life-insurance policies purchased at various points in my life. The only ones that mention general aviation mention it as an exclusion. The ones that I obtained while I wasn't actively flying don't mention it at all. Those will pay in the event of my death in a GA accident. Notably, these life-insurance policies also don't mention cancer, heart disease, car accidents, or dismemberment in a freak slip 'n slide accident. But they'll pay out for death by any of those causes too.

It can be confusing, because you might expect every policy to come with a full list of exclusions. But that isn't how they work. The exclusions you get on your policy will be based on your current situation as reflected in your application. If your situation changes later, the insurance company doesn't really care. That's all just built in to the life-expectancy tables.

Bottom line, it appears the OP was confused because he was expecting the policy through AOPA to expressly cover GA activities, not realizing that by not excluding GA it was covered.

In a later post, he says that the policy excluded aviation, which is different from not saying anything about aviation. Hence my comment about the story changing. Without seeing the policy, we can't really say what was in it, we have to go by what we're told.
 
So still...don't see a sudden change in his story as accused.

So should the OP feel confident in calling AOPA and them saying something along the lines of "Its cool, dont call the insurance company and tell them you fly because then they will exclude it. If they dont know its included by default"? That's kinda shady.

Furthermore and probably even worse, why is AOPA brokering insurance that will immediately exclude general aviation if asked about it....and brokering it to a community of aviators...
 
orange said:
When I started training last year, I looked into my life insurance policy that I have through work. I don't know who the provider is, possibly Hartford. It has an exclusion for general aviation (pilot or passenger). Little about me: I'm just under 40 years old, work on wall Street (I make a good salary), and I have a wife and 4 kids that I want to make sure are provided for if something tragic were to happen to me.

About 2 months ago, I applied for the AOPA life insurance
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Orange, please PM me your name, address, and email. I've been talking to our insurance staff about this. AOPA does not offer any insurance products that exclude aviation.

I will put you in touch with the right people at AOPA to sort it out. There is a miscommunication or misunderstanding somewhere in here that can be sorted out. Thanks, Tom.
 
TomHaines said:
Orange, please PM me your name, address, and email. I've been talking to our insurance staff about this. AOPA does not offer any insurance products that exclude aviation.

I will put you in touch with the right people at AOPA to sort it out. There is a miscommunication or misunderstanding somewhere in here that can be sorted out. Thanks, Tom.
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I figured you'd be along to get to the bottom of this. Of course, it took you a couple of days. If Claire was still running things... :)
 
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