Any way to test a composite aircraft?

Aaron H

Aaron H

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Dec 18, 2017
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Aaron
Hi all,

I've been looking for a 2 person plane for a while now. I came across an Europa xs trigear that I'm going to look at next week.
It's a composite kit built by an a&p

Any info on composite planes or this plane? Good, bad?

Any way to test the composite?
Does a tap test work?
Any tips on visual test?
Is there a cheap ultrasound type device for owners to buy?
What do the Cirrus and flight design owners do?

Thanks in advance
 
One way is to prowl the type's chat forums and learn what mechanic or builder is respected by most as being a genius at that type, then enlist their help to inspect before buying.
There are possibly also builder-assist companies that might be very familiar with the type.
 
Monowheel is cooler!!!

In all seriousness, if you don't know much about composites, your best bet is to find someone who does pre buys on experimental composite airplanes. Where are you located? I know just the guy if you are out West. A visual inspection and tap test can check for delamination. That generally isn't the problem though. If there is a structural problem, it will probably be at a fitting, not something like delamination of the wing skin.
 
No not really something you can do on your own unless you're a building wonk. I mean that's kinda the opportunity cost of buying a composite tub laid by an amateur. Could be fine, could be better than factory (if you consider what Cessna did with its mexican blunder) , or could be a lemon waiting to delaminate/crack on you or worse (especially given the crack prop characteristics of composites). Your monkey your circus.

Personally, composite exab is one realm I don't mess with. We buried a professional peer who built his own Tango 4 and the NTSB found a hot mess of a fiberglass job, especially when it came to occupant restraint anchoring. I'm much more comfortable with the rivet jobs on kit-built planes, the most common example of this being the RV of course. I have no problem flying in a amateur hatchet job of that type, but again everybody has their tolerance. There's folks on here flying experimental bathtubs for hundreds of hours without inflight failure, so it's certainly not impossible to find a safe sample of it. There's other dispatch/mx reasons I wouldn't own one though, but that's outside the scope of your question so I digress.

fwiw, I've actually instructed for a couple hours in a europa with the finger brakes lol. Now that thing was a rube goldberg arrangement if I ever saw one. The doors were flimsy is one thing I recall, but otherwise flew as yawningly familiar as any old 4 banger spam can. BTW, the Liberty XL2 is a certified variant of the Europa, with metal wings, FADEC engine and slightly wider to fit fat Americans. So you can always go that route if you can find one and are willing to pay a premium for the factory hands and metal wings.

Good luck!
 
Thanks for the multiple responses!
I'll try to answer the questions in order

I will prob the messages better to see if I can find an expert in my area
I am on the east cost(Pennsylvania).
I am looking into the the liberty now. It's a nice looking plane, but I was leaning towards a rotax.

I need a 2 person plane for me, my wife, dog (sheltie), and an overnight bag. Anything come to mind?
I am wanting an LSA with some baggage space.

Thx
 
Aaron H said:
Thanks for the multiple responses!
I'll try to answer the questions in order

I will prob the messages better to see if I can find an expert in my area
I am on the east cost(Pennsylvania).
I am looking into the the liberty now. It's a nice looking plane, but I was leaning towards a rotax.

I need a 2 person plane for me, my wife, dog (sheltie), and an overnight bag. Anything come to mind?
I am wanting an LSA with some baggage space.

Thx
Click to expand...

Cessna 150.
 
AaronH - were you trying to keep to a certain price range? Or is useful load a criteria?

To answer your first question about testing composite aircraft... best to get an expert out there to check it out. You can do a visual test for delamination or damage, but the construction technique (layers of glass fiber matte or carbon fiber if used) and the resin to hold it all together will require a trained eye to see if it’s up to snuff.

But given what you’re looking for (PIC and 1 pax, luggage space), I’d say an RV-12 would be a good choice. If looking for a high wing, a CTLS might work (but you’d need a small dog to fit on the small parcel shelf behind the seats). If you and your wife are svelte, the Vashon Ranger might be a good choice as well. The challenge, of course, is that the Vashon Ranger is heavy for a LSA, thus limiting useful load. But it has a large cargo floor behind the seats for your dog (if you have a larger dog.)
 
The Europa,shares most of the traits as the liberty XL2, the life of the airframe was just extended to 10,000 hrs on the liberty,not sure how you check a home built aircraft.
 
Rtk11,
Besides being a little slow, the ranger would be perfect except trying get in around 40k.
I think thats why I've been looking at experimentals.

Is there a kit plane that's close to the ranger?

Firefly,
I am looking into the liberty now

Thx
 
Anymouse said:
Tango 4?? :confused2:
Click to expand...

Yeah, Team Tango Foxtrot or Foxtrot 4, according to the interwebz.

I'm not saying there's something inherent to the construction of the Tangos that someone else couldn't screw up on a Lancair for instance. I'm just saying it's harder to screw up a rivet job RV, but I don't have a dog in the fight since I'm stuck in certified hell anyways due to the lack of market interest in cheap experimental 4 seater cruisers (and no, an RV-10 doesn't fit my definition of affordable, anymore than a SR-22 does...).

At any rate, our deceased colleague attempted an impossible turn, but the findings pertaining to the construction of the aircraft were not good to say the least.
 
hindsight2020 said:
Yeah, Team Tango Foxtrot or Foxtrot 4, according to the interwebz.
Click to expand...

Ah... A Foxtrot. I hadn't heard of any Foxtrot crashes, let alone a fatal. I know of two fatal Tango crashes. One was a guy suspected of doing an intentional spin. The other hit a hill while pushing weather.
 
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