Any way to automatically reboot/restart modem after loss of net?

FORANE

FORANE

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FORANE
Running a
D7000v2 – Nighthawk AC1900 WiFi VDSL/ADSL Modem Router
https://www.netgear.com/support/product/D7000v2.aspx
https://www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-Nigh...ywords=netgear+nighthawk+d7000&qid=1568508610

After storms, it loses internet connection and requires a reboot to re-establish connection. If I am home it is not a big issue. If I am away from home, we have no internet until I am home to restart it. During these times, we lose connection to any internet connected devices we have.
Is there a means to automatically reboot or restart such modems after they lose connection?
 
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Without internet connectivity you need something that sits inside the house and tries to get out. If it doesn’t get out, it signals something else to reboot the router.

There’s a bunch of ways to do that with home automation stuff and some scripts.

One caveat having designed auto reboot devices before. Make them stop after a few and wait a long time. Otherwise if it’s a real internet outage for long enough, they’ll just beat the holy hell out of the gear by bouncing power to it over and over and over.

The better solution would be to figure out why it needs a reboot. It should be retrying its upstream connection on a regular basis when it’s down. Maybe ask Netgear to fix their junk? Not that they will, but anyway...

Yeah there’s ways to do it. Better from the stuff I’ve designed that had to be up, was to get a dual WAN router and put it in on the edge and a secondary cellular data backup circuit that comes up when the main is down so you can remote in and do whatever troubleshooting or rebooting that you like.

But that isn’t cheap...
 
The router itself needs to be rebooted? Usually there should already be a watchdog timer for that.
 
asicer said:
The router itself needs to be rebooted? Usually there should already be a watchdog timer for that.
Click to expand...

I think what he’s saying is his ISP and router don’t do whatever auth or simple DHCP is needed on the WAN side of things after long outages. Router is fine, it just doesn’t know it’s address or can’t log in.
 
denverpilot said:
I think what he’s saying is his ISP and router don’t do whatever auth or simple DHCP is needed on the WAN side of things after long outages. Router is fine, it just doesn’t know it’s address or can’t log in.
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Yeah, a bit confusing since OP seems to use "router" and "modem" interchangeably. Sounds kind of like it's trying to PPPoE before there's really an E.
 
Not being as computer literate as you guys, I am saying that after the modem loses internet connection, it typically stays down until I return home. That may be a week or more that it remains down. The router stays functional, it just has no internet connection. This results in our inability to remotely connect to any internet connected devices in the home, such as a thermostat.
 
asicer said:
Yeah, a bit confusing since OP seems to use "router" and "modem" interchangeably. Sounds kind of like it's trying to PPPoE before there's really an E.
Click to expand...

Could be the modem that goes stupid. If it is, dump the cable company modem and get an integrated one in a good router will usually fix that silliness.

Not that I’ve had a cable modem in half a decade. The Motorola Canopy on the roof reboots flawlessly and just works after our multiple rural power outages.
 
FORANE said:
Not being as computer literate as you guys, I am saying that after the modem loses internet connection, it typically stays down until I return home. That may be a week or more that it remains down. The router stays functional, it just has no internet connection.
Click to expand...

Assuming separate cable modem and router, see my other comment. You really don’t have much control or visibility to what’s ailing their gear. If it’s yours you can at least see what is happening on your device in the logs.
 
denverpilot said:
Assuming separate cable modem and router, see my other comment. You really don’t have much control or visibility to what’s ailing their gear. If it’s yours you can at least see what is happening on your device in the logs.
Click to expand...
No separate modem. This device is a combined modem and router. Not cable, it is DSL.
 
FORANE said:
No separate modem. This device is a combined modem and router. Not cable, it is DSL.
Click to expand...

Oh ick. Depending on the carrier it really doesn’t surprise me that their own modems can’t figure out how to re-authenticate or the DSLAM will accept an auth request while it has no actual connection back to home. Or that the customer premise device doesn’t try again properly.

But they’re usually a PITA about allowing your own gear. So yeah, you’re probably stuck with something that monitors and bounces power.

But here’s an idea. Call them up and tell em you have both an elderly person at home who has a panic button that needs internet and also a home alarm, and neither works when their crap doesn’t come back up after a power loss. See if they magically send you a device with firmware that works right. ;)

Of course don’t tell them you’re the elderly person and the panic button is the app that orders beer delivered. Hahahaha.
 
FORANE said:
Not being as computer literate as you guys, I am saying that after the modem loses internet connection, it typically stays down until I return home. That may be a week or more that it remains down. The router stays functional, it just has no internet connection. This results in our inability to remotely connect to any internet connected devices in the home, such as a thermostat.
Click to expand...
Is this a reboot problem, or that the box turns off when it loses power and does not turn back on when power is established? This is very different from not re-connecting to the network. If it's not re-connecting, then this warrants a call to Netgear to find out how to re-configure the modem so it re-connects when power returns.
 
Or have a OS with a auto reboot option.
 
murphey said:
Is this a reboot problem, or that the box turns off when it loses power and does not turn back on when power is established? This is very different from not re-connecting to the network. If it's not re-connecting, then this warrants a call to Netgear to find out how to re-configure the modem so it re-connects when power returns.
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Turns back on, but that's not the issue. It loses internet connection when storms come through even when the house never loses power.
 
FORANE said:
Turns back on, but that's not the issue. It loses internet connection when storms come through even when the house never loses power.
Click to expand...

If the house never loses power, something upstream is crappjng out and the modem doesn’t know how to recover or times out and quits trying while the upstream is dead.

So yeah, you’re either looking at calling a telco and complaining ( “ We’re the phone company, we don’t have to care!”) or having something somewhat complex that checks the internet connection and if it’s dead, it occasionally pops the power to your modem, like with a controllable plug or similar.

Really if your gear is staying powered and your route to their gear craps out, and both sides don’t recover... that’s completely on the telco. Whether you can get past their first tier scripted tech support drones to someone who might be able to fix it, or care, is doubtful but I’ve done it with hours of time on the phone.
 
This is for cable broadband so may not apply...

We had a cable modem that would drop out even without power outage. We would go downstairs, cycle power and chant ancient requests to various gods. It would work for awhile (hours or a few days) and then do it again. Called the cable company a week later. He got to the house early and I see him sitting the truck as I pull in. I figure he's a bit ****ed since no one is home to let him in. Instead he says: "Already figured it out. Problem is outside. Your cable loss is like you have a really, really, really long cable...as in bad underground cable." He laid a new cable across the yard (buried a few days later). Never had a modem problem since.

So it could be before the modem. Probably not, but worth a mention.
 
Would you say....
-there is power
-you just need a reboot
-it doesn't really matter when that reboot happens
-no harm in rebooting unexpectedly

Set the on/off triggers close together. Set several through the day so that the outage will be minimal. I doubt it would hurt the equipment to cycle it every hour, in fact. (ask the pros about that part)
Even if the house loses power for hours, this will still work.
Sometimes the best solutions are the simplest and cheapest!


timer.jpg
 
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manac said:
https://dlidirect.com/
https://dlidirect.com/products/new-pro-switch

Pings google or whatever and on time-out it power cycles whatever devices you want.
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FORANE said:
Didn't realize these animals existed, but here is another one:
Wi-Fi Router Reset, Smart Plug Auto Monitor and Restart Wi-Fi Router/Modem/Access Points if Wi-Fi Fails, Auto Power Cycler for Modems and Routers
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PHNZKBT/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_quIFDbF41A235

or this one looks good:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0792S1DGZ/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_GVJFDbYED62PD
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Wow. It’s sad those exist. LOL. Shows how much high kwality pair-programming agile software goes into embedded systems and routers these days. Hahaha.

The top one cracks me up. Says it has Alexa support.

“Alexa turn off power to the router.”
“Okay.” Click.
“Alexa turn on power to the router.”
“I’m sorry I’m having trouble understanding you right now.”

LOL. Watch out for scenarios like that. :)
 
Actually those bottom two, @FORANE ... without digging too hard into the amazon questions, look like just remote control switches. They don’t appear to have any way to ping a device or monitor the connection. I started to dig into the questions and decided ... I don’t care enough. Ha.

Just warning anyone thinking about buying them, unless you saw something in the description that I didn’t.
 
Firstly, thanks for posing the question in a clear way with good info (and links too):) about the make and model of equipment and your connection.

If you can leave a PC running (maybe a laptop with a battery?) you could monitor the internet connection from a batch file and launch a browser that is running the iMacros extension. You could have a macro that logged on to the router's web interface and rebooted it.

Years ago I did something like that when I sometimes used a local free internet connection that forced you to re-login every hour.

The above mentioned devices on Amazon look a lot more straightforward unless you are a bit of a programmer:).
 
Get a router with "wake on lan" feature.
Write some code to test the internet connection, and send the magic packet if the connection fails.
 
Shepherd said:
Get a router with "wake on lan" feature.
Write some code to test the internet connection, and send the magic packet if the connection fails.
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Fairly rare in routers from telecoms, and he said he’s using one of theirs. Without swapping for a modem and a separate router, he won’t have that option.

I stayed away from suggesting stuff that required coding. Most folks just won’t do it.

Meanwhile his post got me to thinking about my setup and I’ll probably write something to monitor and do the reboot in HomeAssistant/hass.io since it’s the latest “flavor” of home automation that I’ve been tinkering with slowly.

I want to work on my geofencing before worrying about the router though, since mine doesn’t connect to a clueless telecom and won’t recycle after problems.

Ha. It’s just a priorities thing. After geofencing it working, the garage door is getting automated. :)
 
Ahem. Get the modem/router on an APC backup battery so that they aren’t affected by brief power outages.
 
SoonerAviator said:
Ahem. Get the modem/router on an APC backup battery so that they aren’t affected by brief power outages.
Click to expand...

The problem in our case is ATT. Their end goes stoopid and I have to reconnect. Not saying that's the OP's issue. Maybe OP could solve it with a small cheeep UPS. But just sayin'.
 
SoonerAviator said:
Ahem. Get the modem/router on an APC backup battery so that they aren’t affected by brief power outages.
Click to expand...

It's not a power problem. The modem is losing sync with the DSLAM/RDSLAM during storms. Why it doesn't sense that and renegotiate, I have no idea. Probably crappy coding.

One thing that may be worth trying, if you're currently using filters, would be to ditch the filters and go with a POTS/DSL splitter and install it as close to the NIB as possible (as in inches away, if at all possible). I've cleared up all kind of DSL problems with splitters over the years. You basically tap the phone line at the NIB and run it into the splitter, run new copper (CAT3 is fine) to the modem off the DSL output of the splitter, and connect the voice phones to the POTS side using the existing wiring.

Also check the ground at the NIB while you're at it. Static builds up in the aerials during storms, and a good ground helps it bleed off. The NEC wants the NIB connected to the power utility ground using no more than 20 feet of wire, IIRC, but allows for an earth ground if that's not practical. Too many phone installers do neither.

The splitter and the new line to the modem solves any problems caused by either the filters or the interior copper wiring (too many splits, old wiring, capacitance, reactance, interference, etc.). It may (or may not) be enough to prevent the modem and the DSLAM/RDSLAM from losing sync.

Rich
 
Ah, sorry, misread it as after a loss of power like a power flash/failure. Backup battery obviously won’t solve a loss of connection unrelated to power.
 
deonb said:
I use one of these which has various configurable ping servers and times it can try:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00B...n_title#aw-udpv3-customer-reviews_feature_div
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I went and read the docs on that power strip up there and it does a lot more than the iBoot for less money.

And I’ve used iBoot before. They’ve been around for ever and are solid devices. The last time I used one was for a web server in my basement almost 15 years ago. They haven’t changed a thing about their case design, but sounds like they added a couple of features to their firmware.

But that power strip is more bang for the buck. It’ll test ports, http responses, various stuff. Their supposedly trademarked “AutoPing” is crap marketing, it appears to do a lot more than ping.

Also numerous more ways to control it or change settings or monitor it than the iBoot.

But iBoot does make solid, if kinda dumb, stuff.

A friend who ran a wireless ISP had them all over the place. Mountain tops, peoples attics, you name it. His backbone stuff would get kicked in the head by one, if connectivity was lost.
 
Stephen Poole said:
The problem in our case is ATT. Their end goes stoopid and I have to reconnect. Not saying that's the OP's issue. Maybe OP could solve it with a small cheeep UPS. But just sayin'.
Click to expand...
Same problem with my system. already have a power supply UPS.
 
RJM62 said:
It's not a power problem. The modem is losing sync with the DSLAM/RDSLAM during storms. Why it doesn't sense that and renegotiate, I have no idea. Probably crappy coding.

One thing that may be worth trying, if you're currently using filters, would be to ditch the filters and go with a POTS/DSL splitter and install it as close to the NIB as possible (as in inches away, if at all possible). I've cleared up all kind of DSL problems with splitters over the years. You basically tap the phone line at the NIB and run it into the splitter, run new copper (CAT3 is fine) to the modem off the DSL output of the splitter, and connect the voice phones to the POTS side using the existing wiring.

Also check the ground at the NIB while you're at it. Static builds up in the aerials during storms, and a good ground helps it bleed off. The NEC wants the NIB connected to the power utility ground using no more than 20 feet of wire, IIRC, but allows for an earth ground if that's not practical. Too many phone installers do neither.

The splitter and the new line to the modem solves any problems caused by either the filters or the interior copper wiring (too many splits, old wiring, capacitance, reactance, interference, etc.). It may (or may not) be enough to prevent the modem and the DSLAM/RDSLAM from losing sync.

Rich
Click to expand...
Hey rich

I do have a splitter. it has helped. I upgraded the wire coming from it also.
We no longer have a POTS, use VOIP now.
NEC?
NEB?
 
FORANE said:
Hey rich

I do have a splitter. it has helped. I upgraded the wire coming from it also.
We no longer have a POTS, use VOIP now.
NEC?
NEB?
Click to expand...

NEC = National Electrical Code
NIB = Network Interface Box, the box that connects a building's wires to the phone company's wires.

NIB may be regional slang. Some use NID (Network Interface Device), NIU (Network Interface Unit), Demarc (Demarcation Box, Unit, Point, or Device), and probably others. Where I was working when I did this sort of thing, we called it a NIB.

I don't have time to look up the current requirements, but the NEC used to require that the NIB be grounded to the utility power company's ground using no more than (I believe) 20 feet of at least 14 AWG wire (some localities required 6 AWG). If (and only if) that was impractical, a second earth ground could be used to ground the NIB.

Because running wires and sinking grounds were both time-consuming, and phone installers tend to be tightly-scheduled, it was not at all uncommon to find ungrounded or improperly-grounded NIB's. Also, proper grounds often go bad due to corrosion, loose connections, or bad grounding blocks. A connection that previously worked fine, but started dropping out during storms, quite often required nothing more than fixing a bad ground at the NIB.

Rich
 
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It looks like the NEC revisions since I stopped doing that sort of work have made an "Intersystem Bonding Termination Device" (aka "ground block") and 6 AWG copper ground wire mandatory for communications. https://www.ieci.org/media/media/download/4051 (250.94 Bonding for Communication Systems).

In any event, check the ground. Poor grounds are the source of many, many problems in electricity and electronics and usually are easy to fix.

Rich
 
RJM62 said:
NEC = National Electrical Code
NIB = Network Interface Box, the box that connects a building's wires to the phone company's wires.

NIB may be regional slang. Some use NID (Network Interface Device), NIU (Network Interface Unit), Demarc (Demarcation Box, Unit, Point, or Device), and probably others. Where I was working when I did this sort of thing, we called it a NIB.
Click to expand...

Have heard them called all of those names in all States I’ve worked in. Usually one would “stick” and be used more at one company, and their competitor would use another.

Have also fixed a lot of problems with proper grounds. Most fun was a building that had different ground potentials at both ends of the building and half of the building was wired to one ground, and half the other, and the two grounds weren’t bonded. It was a manufacturing and office mixed building where one half was an addition. Sure ****ed off the TTL level logic in our system when the control stations were in one half, and the main gear was in the other. LOL.

Anyway.. I’m not convinced he has a ground problem. I’m under the impression that this outage happens during storms or similar events even though his power stays on. That would lead me to believe the DSLAM itself is restarting or having problems whereas his modem is fine. But the modem doesn’t understand where the telecom’s gear disappeared to and doesn’t know how to properly re-authenticate or start the circuit back up.

The way to see that would be to look in the modem when the problem is happening and see if it has a WAN side IP address assigned to it, and if it thinks it is “reconnecting” or similar. Usually in the so called “advanced” options.

Another way to confirm it’s “upstream” is simply to ask the neighbors. If they’re dead when you’re dead, nothing you can do (other than force a restart) inside your house will fix it. In that case, at least you have a multi-tenant complaint for the telecom. That one maybe even rises to a well written complaint to their regulator in the area. But you’d start by politely telling them their stuff doesn’t recover after X events for you and all the neighbors.

In the end, they as a company policy won’t care. But sometimes you can find a field tech or engineer that gives a crap, if the gear is SUPPOSED to recover. It’ll make them mad and want to fix it because they know something is misconfigured. But finding that tech or engineer who cares is a dice roll.

Oh one other truck / thing to know. Nobody at a telecom cares much about residential service. But they do care more about small business service. Same with cable companies. If you need a tiny bit more clout toward a residential service being up all the time, buy it as a small business service. Different phone number, different call center drones when you call, different ticket priority in the ticket system, yadda yadda yadda.

I always do that when I can on wireline. On my current microwave link it doesn’t matter, they either see the link is up or down and roll a truck. On wireline, residential is all the way at the bottom of every ticket list, always. Not enough margin in it.

That trick of saying there’s someone who may need 911 services also raises the priority in the ticket system. And a telecom field person’s life is run by the ticket systems these days. Computers make everything better. LOL.
 
denverpilot said:
Have heard them called all of those names in all States I’ve worked in. Usually one would “stick” and be used more at one company, and their competitor would use another.

Have also fixed a lot of problems with proper grounds. Most fun was a building that had different ground potentials at both ends of the building and half of the building was wired to one ground, and half the other, and the two grounds weren’t bonded. It was a manufacturing and office mixed building where one half was an addition. Sure ****ed off the TTL level logic in our system when the control stations were in one half, and the main gear was in the other. LOL.

Anyway.. I’m not convinced he has a ground problem. I’m under the impression that this outage happens during storms or similar events even though his power stays on. That would lead me to believe the DSLAM itself is restarting or having problems whereas his modem is fine. But the modem doesn’t understand where the telecom’s gear disappeared to and doesn’t know how to properly re-authenticate or start the circuit back up.

The way to see that would be to look in the modem when the problem is happening and see if it has a WAN side IP address assigned to it, and if it thinks it is “reconnecting” or similar. Usually in the so called “advanced” options.

Another way to confirm it’s “upstream” is simply to ask the neighbors. If they’re dead when you’re dead, nothing you can do (other than force a restart) inside your house will fix it. In that case, at least you have a multi-tenant complaint for the telecom. That one maybe even rises to a well written complaint to their regulator in the area. But you’d start by politely telling them their stuff doesn’t recover after X events for you and all the neighbors.

In the end, they as a company policy won’t care. But sometimes you can find a field tech or engineer that gives a crap, if the gear is SUPPOSED to recover. It’ll make them mad and want to fix it because they know something is misconfigured. But finding that tech or engineer who cares is a dice roll.

Oh one other truck / thing to know. Nobody at a telecom cares much about residential service. But they do care more about small business service. Same with cable companies. If you need a tiny bit more clout toward a residential service being up all the time, buy it as a small business service. Different phone number, different call center drones when you call, different ticket priority in the ticket system, yadda yadda yadda.

I always do that when I can on wireline. On my current microwave link it doesn’t matter, they either see the link is up or down and roll a truck. On wireline, residential is all the way at the bottom of every ticket list, always. Not enough margin in it.

That trick of saying there’s someone who may need 911 services also raises the priority in the ticket system. And a telecom field person’s life is run by the ticket systems these days. Computers make everything better. LOL.
Click to expand...

I'm not convinced it's ground problem, either. But it's a possibility that's easy to either fix or rule out.

Rich
 
I still wouldn't discount a problem with signal level/quality coming into the home. Yes, you can get a smart rebooting device but it might just mask the problem and may get so bad that the reboots don't even work. If you get a smart rebooting solution I would definitely look at the logs or notifications of how often its happening.

Question/Hypothetical: If your neighbor has the same service and same equipment (modem) and is not having problems and then why are you bothering with smart rebooting solutions? The week or so when ours got worse and worse we figured it was everyone since the new edition had its share of broadband growing pains and outtages. Then one day I asked our neighbor if their internet is out again. I received a strange look and she said its been fine for months. Crap - just us.

So it was either the modem or something upstream. Turns out it was the wire outside. I'm glad I didn't run out and buy a $150 wifi router to fix a problem. Also glad I didn't buy my own modem (even though I don't care for theirs). I was so sure it was the friggin' modem but it wasn't even that. Now we have two runs to the house since my wife's work requires a second dedicated line. Neither have had a problem since. We could almost use our IP as static because seems to go as much as a year or more without switching.

Our modem, router, VOIP and NAS is on a UPS. Its funny when the power goes out. We get internet for about 2.5hrs and then their upstream UPS's must finally exhaust. No smart rebooter has been required.
 
You’ve hit upon why I suggested a call to the provider and also a talk with the neighbors, @Sinistar — we really don’t have a solid picture of what causes the outages in the first place, yet.

For the consumer end of things, talking on forums, I go toward the stuff a consumer would do.

If I was the tech called out to fix that thing, I’d have real test gear on that loop so fast, and a solid look at all of the wiring quality and the job the homer before me did... and a long chat with the homeowner about when the outages occur.

As well as probably a bunch of knowledge about which boxes the company used that I’m working for, that are total POSes and need to be chucked in a garbage can, before they can be reused to bother another customer. Hahaha.

There’s only so much one can do on the receiving end, but starting at “I want a way to reboot it” isn’t a fix, it’s a cover up. What you really want is a fix... but that is going to be all about patience and persistence until a tech who cares shows up.

Just how it goes in telecom. There’s a reason some techs are tier 1, and some work in the tier 4 “elite services” group. Unfortunately residential customers get the tier 1 guys and gals. Some of them want to move up. If you get one of those, and have a more difficult problem, you’ll probably get it fixed.

There’s a whole bunch of box swappers and board swappers out there working in telecom. It pays the same as understanding how the circuits work and digging into what’s really wrong with one. Especially when there will always be a backlog of tickets to work.
 
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