Any rummors on Garmin Pilot 9.7?

TimRF79

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Tim
So... Garmin Pilot app noted you need to be on WiFi for the coming 9.7 update.
But no mention what was the update would entail, or when it would be published.

Any rumors?
 
So... Garmin Pilot app noted you need to be on WiFi for the coming 9.7 update.
But no mention what was the update would entail, or when it would be published.

Any rumors?

I updated it 30 minutes ago, haven’t flown with it yet obviously.


Tom
 
Just read the update notes, seems very unimportant to GA
 
Just read the update notes, seems very unimportant to GA

Unless you live in Europe or use FltPlan...otherwise airspace enhancement and preferred routes is only ones that interest me.


Tom
 
FF updates are more exciting. GP isn’t really trying hard.
 
FF updates are more exciting. GP isn’t really trying hard.

I wouldn’t call their newest stuff “exciting” either. Window dressing maybe. CPU waste of cycles definitely. Exciting, no. That ended years ago. :)
 
The GP product is so much more intuitive and integrates better. Doing TEC Routes is curing my only gripe.
 
The GP product is so much more intuitive and integrates better. Doing TEC Routes is curing my only gripe.

Not a lot of people say this but I can lean your way also. If you have a GTN, learning the buttonology in GP is a nothingburger and just works.

ForeFlight really doesn’t have ANY specific feature that I can think of that I MUST have over GP, and Concierge to load new updates into the panel is the win-over icing on the cake for GTN owners.

Isn’t popular with the ForeFlight crowd, and I still love FF and what they did for electronic charts... but Garmin seems to have found a balance with GP — IF — you’re a GTN or fancier Garmin user.
 
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I have never owned an Apple product and have never used anything other than GP - and I have zero complaints. Combine GP with a GTN750 and Flighstream 510 and you have a near perfect panel / EFB.
 
The latest version finally allows on-screen widgets to be moveable - if the airport dialog gets displayed on top of something on the map you want to see, you can now drag the dialog away - that pretty amazing piece of functionality , originally introduced on personal computers in the late 80s, is now available in GP - kudos to Garmin.
 
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The latest version finally allows on-screen widgets to be moveable - if the airport dialog gets displayed on top of something on the map you want to see, you can now drag the dialog away - that pretty amazing piece of functionality , originally introduced on personal computer in the late 80s, is now available in GP - kudos to Garmin.

I’d love to know what personal computer had widgets in the late 80s.

Windows 3.1 wasn’t even released until 1992.
 
I’d love to know what personal computer had widgets in the late 80s.

Windows 3.1 wasn’t even released until 1992.

Actually unix had it long before then, Microsoft has never done anything unique. Including DOS.

But neither had it in a handheld device.


Tom
 
I’d love to know what personal computer had widgets in the late 80s.

Windows 3.1 wasn’t even released until 1992.

Mac OS , Amiga OS , Atari TOS, UNIX ... quite a few.

Btw these “widgets” are just regular square windows with a transparent mask - you can drag the radial menu via its “corner” ..
 
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The GP product is so much more intuitive...

Not many people share that opinion. And I'm a GNS owner.

Been using FF for some time. The debate FF vs GP is like F150 vs Silverado. I'm waiting for Boeing to bring out FF Max. Then I'll expect random crashes.
 
I’d be happy if it would just update the firmware in my GDL-39R without crashing.

Nauga,
Confirmed ticket holder
 
GTN, GP, G5s , Aeras... All Garmin aviation (maybe marine and other product lines?) have the same interface now...it makes switching between devices easy and intuitive.

Tom
 
Mac OS , Amiga OS , Atari TOS, UNIX ... quite a few.

Btw these “widgets” are just regular square windows with a transparent mask - you can drag the radial menu via its “corner” ..

Unix didn’t really have a decent GUI then, and the other three barely had moveable windows at that time, let alone “widgets” inside of applications that were movable.

But nice try.
 
Actually unix had it long before then, Microsoft has never done anything unique. Including DOS.

But neither had it in a handheld device.


Tom

Which windowing environment was worth a crap on Unix in the late 80s? I used em all and they weren’t good.

The one Sun put out was barely useable and a waste of CPU cycles when all you were going to do was open an Xterm and get real work done, anyway. Ooh look, someone lost the optical mousepad in the server room and the mouse doesn’t work now. Great...

Just like today. Open a command prompt and make some money. GUIs are for users and Excel. :)

SGI maybe had something visually appealing but still mostly useless and just another way to open multiple XTerms by the mid 90s. LOL.

Commodore and their Amiga hadn’t even done the bouncy ball demo by the late 80s that their engineers got working the night before Comdex in a hotel room on their bastardized new machine with parts from all their other machines.

The late 80s wasn’t a GUI era and even if a widget doesn’t move anything you find in GP is light years ahead of anything available back then.

Looking, we just got 800 x 600! LOL. It only costs $4000 for the NEC monitor to display it in any way that doesn’t give the average human a headache!
 
I’d be happy if it would just update the firmware in my GDL-39R without crashing.

Nauga,
Confirmed ticket holder

Damn. That’s a bummer. Mine updates the GTN flawlessly other than one bug.

If you miss a cycle GP gets a tad confused about it. It’ll still do it. But it doesn’t completely understand firmware or databases that are either already loaded or skipping numbers too well.

You can kinda see the developer was lazy or under and unreadable deadline on that section of the code, and nobody’s spent any real QA/UX time looking at the one offs in that section.
 
Carping on garmin pilot is baffling to me. It’s not perfect, but man, it’s very good, and getting better consistently. It has improved more consistently than any other app I’ve ever use on a mobile device, and it rarely flakes out or crashes.

I’ve nothing against foreflight, I only use GP because it’s what I tried first and I’m used to it.
 
Unix didn’t really have a decent GUI then, and the other three barely had moveable windows at that time, let alone “widgets” inside of applications that were movable.

But nice try.

A widget within Garmin Pilot is just a moveable window absolutely no different than x-eyes or any other window present on various OS system since mid 80s. I have been programming similar features since late 80s so why keep arguing about stuff you don’t really know much about ?
 
A widget within Garmin Pilot is just a moveable window absolutely no different than x-eyes or any other window present on various OS system since mid 80s. I have been programming similar features since late 80s so why keep arguing about stuff you don’t really know much about ?
Pixels on a screen. Pixels on a screen.

Seriously, to compare a touch iPad interface in any way with a unix windows interface pre 1990 is a bit, well, nonsensical. I also programmed a windows system pre 1990, but to compare it to garmin pilot doesn't even have purpose. I really have no idea what your point is.
 
Read my original post - I am not comparing quality of graphics or any of that , just the fact that GP was not supporting moveable windows until the latest release while that feature was available since the late 80s - that’s it - show me when I am wrong and that you could move a dialog around the screen in the previous version of GP and then I will concede to being wrong.

Or don’t , it doesn’t matter anyway ...
 
Read my original post - I am not comparing quality of graphics or any of that , just the fact that GP was not supporting moveable windows until the latest release while that feature was available since the late 80s - that’s it - show me when I am wrong and that you could move a dialog around the screen in the previous version of GP and then I will concede to being wrong.

Or don’t , it doesn’t matter anyway ...
Again. Who cares? They had a weakness in the UI, and they improved it. I guarantee you that your dialog boxes in unix in the 80's were not context sensitive to the content below them, constantly updating their display relative to what is underneath, as the GP widget does. It's actually rather impressive.

There are still things that aren't perfect. I'm sure I can find many things about it to criticize if I wanted to. Here's one. I wish there was an option for the top data bar to show closest airport freq and bearing.
 
Again. Who cares? They had a weakness in the UI, and they improved it. I guarantee you that your dialog boxes in unix in the 80's were not context sensitive to the content below them, constantly updating their display relative to what is underneath, as the GP widget does. It's actually rather impressive.

That’s why he carefully cherry picked X-Eyes, the only application that bothered to follow something (the mouse cursor) and update itself from that outside information source, back then.

The vast majority of apps were utter crap data entry text boxes that had horrid layouts and couldn’t even handle being used on “the wrong size [resolution] monitors” back then. Garbage.

But of course everything switched to browsers and the inability to properly use the whole screen by developers, continues to this day. LOL.

Someday someone will figure out a dumb terminal actually utilized all available space for data entry better than anything the industry has accomplished in 20 years. Hahaha.

Gimme some more white space around three data entry boxes on my 40” monitor. It looks great!

Anyway. Widgets in the 80s (I noticed the story snuck into the 90s again there, tsk tsk, that’s not what you said originally) were absolutely worthless garbage. Like XEyes. Which was nothing more than a “gee wiz” from the X folks to get people to go “oooh, ahhh, GUI!”

Garmin didn’t make the thing movable because they didn’t think of it, because software engineering has no standards. With only two significant players in EFB/moving map on consumer gadget OSes, they haven’t exactly written a style guide for it. ForeFlight’s stuff was equally bad for a long long time.

But that’s the curse of software engineering. The old people who’d remember to put that feature on the list, retire. The newbies are busier learning the OS and windowing manager du hour this week, than working from any real “building codes” or engineering standards.

That’s why I call it coding and not engineering. Engineers create plans. Coders slap stuff together that looks like a bridge or a house but doesn’t meet code.

The industry still doesn’t have any real engineering discipline. Definitely not in GUIs and UX. The UX movement kinda tried, but it’s pretty lifeless now. Apple has a a desktop app style guide. None for iOS apps.

Not sure a complaint that Garmin left that out is very valid considering the childish nature of the entire software industry still. Unless you’re working big iron in telecom, defense, or certain industries with standards that have to be written to, expect UIs that suck.

Especially in the software rental era where it’s “ship it and we’ll patch daily for mistakes”.

Don’t get me wrong. As a sysadmin, I love crap code. In GUIs I get to memorize bad ones and talk users through their non-intuitive designs for real money. Same with server side stuff. Finding a workaround to some dumb thing a newbie engineer coded until he can send out that magic patch via the Internet or jam it through some nice process like “Agile” a couple weeks from now to production, paid all my bills plus lots more for decades now.

I love bad software. :)

As far as something not moving on the screen, I would just scroll it right to the edge and then hit it and see if the noob put some code in to at least handle that. Bet it pops up somewhere else than “off screen”. Then just scroll it back. LOL.

If that didn’t work, oh well. GUIs suck. Submit a “ticket” and maybe they’ll write a better one before they crap can the whole code base and start over with more newbies and another windowing framework. Annnnnd... that one will suck again for a while.

Repeat ad nauseaum. Haha. Yay software.
 
Unix didn’t really have a decent GUI then, and the other three barely had moveable windows at that time, let alone “widgets” inside of applications that were movable.

But nice try.

Macs had them right from the start in 1984. They were called "Desk Accessories" ("DAs") and you installed them with this horrid kludge called the Font/DA Mover. Really the whole thing was a kludge but it worked.

The industry still doesn’t have any real engineering discipline. Definitely not in GUIs and UX. The UX movement kinda tried, but it’s pretty lifeless now. Apple has a a desktop app style guide. None for iOS apps.

Ummm... Yes they do. iOS Human Interface Guidelines
 
ForeFlight really doesn’t have ANY specific feature that I can think of that I MUST have over GP, and Concierge to load new updates into the panel is the win-over icing on the cake for GTN owners.
It's not a deal-breaker for me, but Foreflight integrates with a number of traffic receivers (including Stratux), while GP only permits Garmin's own proprietary data sources. The main reason I'm sticking with GP is because FF was Apple-only back in the day, and being locked into Apple was worse than being locked into Garmin. Well, it still is worse, of course. But you can get FF on non-Apple devices now.
 
It's not a deal-breaker for me, but Foreflight integrates with a number of traffic receivers (including Stratux), while GP only permits Garmin's own proprietary data sources. The main reason I'm sticking with GP is because FF was Apple-only back in the day, and being locked into Apple was worse than being locked into Garmin. Well, it still is worse, of course. But you can get FF on non-Apple devices now.
Web version does not count. I do not have internet in my plane, not sure about you.
FF is still Apple only.

Tim

Sent from my SM-J737T using Tapatalk
 
It's not a deal-breaker for me, but Foreflight integrates with a number of traffic receivers (including Stratux), while GP only permits Garmin's own proprietary data sources. The main reason I'm sticking with GP is because FF was Apple-only back in the day, and being locked into Apple was worse than being locked into Garmin. Well, it still is worse, of course. But you can get FF on non-Apple devices now.

I think FF tolerates Stratux because they have to. They want to sell Stratus and didn’t think way back in the day to encrypt the data stream between the devices.

I believe there’s still something crippled in the stream to the Stratux if the Stratux isn’t set to not ask for it. I forget what it is.

But at this point the only reason they don’t kill talking to it is that it would require field firmware updates to “authorized” devices to lock it all down. That would be a bigger nightmare than just letting the reverse-engineers do their thing.

Ah, I remember now. If you turned on AHRS hardware in the Stratux in the past FF would refuse to display it and drop the entire stream. They didn’t want the liability supposedly of displaying accelerometer data from an unknown device.

I don’t think they’ve lightened up on that. Not that the quality of the same accelerometer in the Stratus isn’t all that great. It’s really only useful as a backup when all else fails.
 
Commodore and their Amiga hadn’t even done the bouncy ball demo by the late 80s that their engineers got working the night before Comdex in a hotel room on their bastardized new machine with parts from all their other machines.

Actually it was 1984
 
Crap. Apple man is here. Hahaha.

Naah, Truth Man is here! :D

I think FF tolerates Stratux because they have to. They want to sell Stratus and didn’t think way back in the day to encrypt the data stream between the devices.

I believe there’s still something crippled in the stream to the Stratux if the Stratux isn’t set to not ask for it. I forget what it is.

But at this point the only reason they don’t kill talking to it is that it would require field firmware updates to “authorized” devices to lock it all down. That would be a bigger nightmare than just letting the reverse-engineers do their thing.

Uhhh... You haven't been paying much attention have you Nate? The exclusivity agreement that ForeFlight (probably) had with Appareo is long over. Stratus 3 works with multiple devices, ForeFlight came out with their own devices (Sentry and Scout) but also can use a long list of other devices:

Portable:
Appareo: Stratus 1, 1S, 2, 2S, and 3
ForeFlight: Sentry and Scout
Garmin: GDL 39, 39 3D, 50, 51, and 52
SiriusXM: SXAR1
UAvionix: EchoUAT

Panel Mount:
Avidyne: IFD 440, 540, and 550
Dynon: SkyView HDX
FreeFlight: RANGR FDL-978-RX, FDL-978-XVR, and FTX 250
Garmin: FlightStream 110, 210, and 510; GTX 335 and 345; GDL 50R, 51R, 52R, 84, and 88
L-3: NGT-2000, NGT-2500, and NGT-9000 series (incl. +, D, D+)
UAvionix: SkyEcho 2

Oh, and lest you think that ForeFlight is closed off to others for some reason - They use an extended version of the "industry standard" GDL-90 specification, which they publish here: https://www.foreflight.com/connect/spec/?_ga=2.163166588.1153455738.1564625263-1316327013.1375909549
 
Not many people share that opinion. And I'm a GNS owner.

The GP interface is basically identical to the GTN. Also, I've been using GP since I started flying, but have also played with FF that friends use. I find GP to work better and faster.
 
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