Any ideas on what to do with old airplanes?

[FloridaPilot]

In a few of the airports here in Tampa, (Especially KSPG) there are some Piper's and Cessna's in a tie down outside just collecting dust. They are old but are just sitting there collecting dust. Nobody is using them and I feel it's a shame.

Does anybody have any ideas on what to do with old airplanes just sitting there? Maybe some ideas I can submit to the FBO and find some use for them.



As always thanks for your input!!

 

[BillTIZ]

Look up the n number and try and contact the owner. The local airport authority if not receiving satisfaction from the owners for overdue tiedown fees have auctioned off derelict aircraft that some people have bought, restored and get them flying again. But if the fees are current, not much can be done. Also now the FAA requires registration renewal.

Many airport authorities require that aircraft be maintained, registered, airworthy and not become eyesores sitting on a ramp with flat tires and broken windows. Fail to meet those requirements and fees, fines do add up and could lead to another auction.

They airport authority will work with owners that are waiting on insurance settlements or long time parts lead times. But you have to work with them and keep them informed. They may ask to move your plane from out of the public view.

 

[Tom-D]

Look up the n number and try and contact the owner. The local airport authority if not receiving satisfaction from the owners for overdue tiedown fees have auctioned off derelict aircraft that some people have bought, restored and get them flying again. But if the fees are current, not much can be done. Also now the FAA requires registration renewal.

Many airport authorities require that aircraft be maintained, registered, airworthy and not become eyesores sitting on a ramp with flat tires and broken windows. Fail to meet those requirements and fees, fines do add up and could lead to another auction.

They airport authority will work with owners that are waiting on insurance settlements or long time parts lead times. But you have to work with them and keep them informed. They may ask to move your plane from out of the public view.

Very few airports work that way.
When the ramp fees are paid that is all they want.

 

[Tom-D]

Does anybody have any ideas on what to do with old airplanes just sitting there? Maybe some ideas I can submit to the FBO and find some use for them.

Most of these aircraft aren't worth the money that will be required to fly them.
Labor and parts are at an all time high, yet the selling prices aren't.

 

[docmirror]

Listen to Tom, he speaks the truth.

There's a derelict Arrow with AC built in at my field. Hasn't moved for 8 years. Engine is out, prop is missing. The rent was paid up until about a year ago when I inquired about buying it for the back fee and then refurb. Even if I can find a used prop for cheap, even if I do most of my own work, even if I get a break on A&P labor for stuff I need to hire out, the cost came it at $40-46k refurb cost. And that's getting cost breaks on a lot of stuff. If it was straight retail labor and materials, the cost would be $60-70k on a plane that is only worth maybe $55k with fair/good radios(this has old radios).

At some point the airport will get tired of them sitting around and have them declared scrap and an aircraft breaker will come get the hulk and haul it to the breaker yard. Circle of life.

 

[Tom-D]

Listen to Tom, he speaks the truth.

There's a derelict Arrow with AC built in at my field. Hasn't moved for 8 years. Engine is out, prop is missing. The rent was paid up until about a year ago when I inquired about buying it for the back fee and then refurb. Even if I can find a used prop for cheap, even if I do most of my own work, even if I get a break on A&P labor for stuff I need to hire out, the cost came it at $40-46k refurb cost. And that's getting cost breaks on a lot of stuff. If it was straight retail labor and materials, the cost would be $60-70k on a plane that is only worth maybe $55k with fair/good radios(this has old radios).

At some point the airport will get tired of them sitting around and have them declared scrap and an aircraft breaker will come get the hulk and haul it to the breaker yard. Circle of life.

I know 4 aircraft right now that could be flown away on a ferry permit, yet it will never come to pass. All because of the old dreamers attitude of " I'll fly it again"

 

[BillTIZ]

Very few airports work that way.
When the ramp fees are paid that is all they want.

You have not felt with our county airport authority. Granted with tons of empty space they might be a bit easier to deal with. But when we had a waiting list for outside tiedown space they did not want 8yr derelicts on the field.

 

[Tom-D]

You have not felt with our county airport authority. Granted with tons of empty space they might be a bit easier to deal with. But when we had a waiting list for outside tiedown space they did not want 8yr derelicts on the field.

That's a good point, but we do not suffer from that. every airport with in a 4 hour flight has plenty parking space.

 

[Tom-D]

You have not felt with our county airport authority. Granted with tons of empty space they might be a bit easier to deal with. But when we had a waiting list for outside tiedown space they did not want 8yr derelicts on the field.

What difference does it make to the airport if the aircraft is flyable or not? just asking. the rent on the space is paid that is what they are interested in, is it not?

 

[Shawn]

What difference does it make to the airport if the aircraft is flyable or not? just asking. the rent on the space is paid that is what they are interested in, is it not?

Because ACTIVE aircraft is what keeps an airport alive and viable with fuel sales, on airport business support and daily flights and airport operations vs just being a giant parking lot of storage planes that never move. If it did not matter and was just rental income, why not just rent out the hangars as mini storage to general public?

 

[Tom-D]

Because ACTIVE aircraft is what keeps an airport alive and viable with fuel sales, on airport business support and daily flights and airport operations vs just being a giant parking lot of storage planes that never move. If it did not matter and was just rental income, why not just rent out the hangars as mini storage to general public?

many do.

 

[stratobee]

Ramp mummies. They're everywhere. The owners have emotional attachments to them, or they're delusional about their value and let them rot waiting for the "right" buyer.

Unless they're warbirds or something exotic, they're never worth saving from a financial standpoint. Emotional perhaps.

 

[James331]

In a few of the airports here in Tampa, (Especially KSPG) there are some Piper's and Cessna's in a tie down outside just collecting dust. They are old but are just sitting there collecting dust. Nobody is using them and I feel it's a shame.

Does anybody have any ideas on what to do with old airplanes just sitting there? Maybe some ideas I can submit to the FBO and find some use for them.



As always thanks for your input!!

Seeing they belong to someone, probably in your best interest to not do a single thing to them.

If you're interested in contacting one of the owners run the N number here

http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Inquiry.aspx

And write him a letter or do a white pages / spokeo/ Intellus search.

Ramp mummies. They're everywhere. The owners have emotional attachments to them, or they're delusional about their value and let them rot waiting for the "right" buyer.

Unless they're warbirds or something exotic, they're never worth saving from a financial standpoint. Emotional perhaps.

Not always true, guy I know recently snagged a Cessna 150 which had been sitting for a decade or so in a hangar, got a killer deal on it, little elbow grease and she's apparently a great flyer, shy of some faded exterior paint.

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

We need an outdoor storage site for them....in the desert maybe...how about S Arizona?
People could come pick parts off them - it would be like, I dunno, a 'boneyard' of sorts.

 

[frfly172]

By the time you convince ,some of the owners to part with their treasure ,the aircraft isn't usually salvageable . Due to theft of parts and deterioration due to weather.

 

[Tom-D]

Unless they're warbirds or something exotic, they're never worth saving from a financial standpoint. Emotional perhaps.

That really depends upon what they are and the condition they are in.

I found a 48 rag wing 170 that sat in a dry hangar from 1990 to 2013, bought it for $5k. It was worth restoring.

 

[coloradobluesky]

1. Fix them up. Might not be financially sound, but it might be someone's hobby.
2. Part them out.
3. Continue to store them until 1 or 2 happens.

There is a Twin Commache on our field with two runout engines and it needs everything else too. Even if you got for free, it would cost more to fix it than it would be worth. It has some parts value but no one can bring themselves to do that, yet.

 

[Tex_Mike]

That really depends upon what they are and the condition they are in.

I found a 48 rag wing 170 that sat in a dry hangar from 1990 to 2013, bought it for $5k. It was worth restoring.

I know of a Tricpacer that has been sitting in a hangar for about15 years. It gets started up every month or two and gets it's annual when do. I have often wondered if it was good to fly or if parts of the plane are slowly rotting

 

[James331]

I know of a Tricpacer that has been sitting in a hangar for about15 years. It gets started up every month or two and gets it's annual when do. I have often wondered if it was good to fly or if parts of the plane are slowly rotting

Depends on if the APIA is shady or not. If it's getting signed off she should be good to go, just sad that it appears she doesn't really do the go part

 

[Dr. O]

Our county owned airport has solved the ramp queen issue. A few years back they put in a new ramp and they removed all but two tie downs - which are reserved for transient aircraft - and banned planes from being left outside. Basically, any plane that is going to set out for more than a night or two has to be hangared or you have to sign a contract with the manager that has daily penalties if the airplane does not leave when it was agreed.
And they enforce their rules.
Funny thing is, other than the ranting and ravings of a few who had unflyable planes out there rotting into the ground at the time they made the new rules, it has been nothing but smiles since. The airport looks neat and clean.

 

[docmirror]

What difference does it make to the airport if the aircraft is flyable or not? just asking. the rent on the space is paid that is what they are interested in, is it not?

I've heard in some cases fuel flowage. A plane that never flies, never uses fuel. A plane that flies each week uses a lot more fuel.

 

[Tom-D]

I've heard in some cases fuel flowage. A plane that never flies, never uses fuel. A plane that flies each week uses a lot more fuel.

When the ramp has plenty room who would care the flying ones will burn as much fuel as they normally would, and collect the ramp fees from those who don't.

 

[docmirror]

When the ramp has plenty room who would care the flying ones will burn as much fuel as they normally would, and collect the ramp fees from those who don't.

Yes, in an airport where there is plenty of space avail that's no problem. Many metro areas are space bound. I'm looking for a new airport right now, and a lot of places have waiting lists. I think the further rural you go, the easier it is to find open tiedown.

 

[Twin_Flyer]

Because ACTIVE aircraft is what keeps an airport alive and viable with fuel sales, on airport business support and daily flights and airport operations vs just being a giant parking lot of storage planes that never move. If it did not matter and was just rental income, why not just rent out the hangars as mini storage to general public?

Big brother FFA no likey!!!!

 

[Dan Thomas]

I know of a Tricpacer that has been sitting in a hangar for about15 years. It gets started up every month or two and gets it's annual when do. I have often wondered if it was good to fly or if parts of the plane are slowly rotting

Bad. Very bad to just run the engine and put it away. Got an engine in the shop right now with corrosion due to that. So many owners think they're doing the engine a favor by running it periodically, not understanding that they're pumping water vapor into the crankcase with blowby gases; water that condenses in there, mixes with the oil and forms acids that eat the engine's guts. That engine needs to be flown for an hour to get the oil hot enough and long enough to flash the water out of the case.

 

[TK211X]

Tampa? If you can tell me specifics I'd be happy to snoop around for the owner and use it for decoration on my own property. That's where i'm going with this, in my mind, planes are works of art. They are engineered to fly. I think that airplanes that are no longer airworthy and have no plans to be, should be found a place to be put on display. I don't know, McDonalds play place or something.

 

[ZeroPapaGolf]

Big brother FFA no likey!!!!

You gotta watch those guys!

[

 

[champ driver]

You buy them up and then you can do whatever you want to do with them, until then, they are other peoples property.

 

[Phoenix]

The market is honest, those airplanes have more value as someone's nonflying mental trophy then as another's flying toy. Truth is lots of people like being airplane owners more then being active airplane pilots and are willing to pay for that claim.

 

[Jimmy cooper]

Eventually they disappear, or get parted out. With the middle class also disappearing ,its a natural occurrence.

 

[hook_dupin]

Scrap aluminum rates aren't high enough to solve this problem

 

[BillTIZ]

What difference does it make to the airport if the aircraft is flyable or not? just asking. the rent on the space is paid that is what they are interested in, is it not?

After a while, the rent goes unpaid, aircraft are considered abandoned. The county then auctions off for what is due them.

Others that are derilicts, they want them moved to an area not viewed by the general public. If you've got a long term repair waiting on parts, the aircraft has to appear to be flyable. It's an image thing.

 

[BillTIZ]

Because ACTIVE aircraft is what keeps an airport alive and viable with fuel sales, on airport business support and daily flights and airport operations vs just being a giant parking lot of storage planes that never move. If it did not matter and was just rental income, why not just rent out the hangars as mini storage to general public?

Not allowed if the airport recieved airport improvement funds from FAA to maintain an airport. It's an airport for airplanes, not an RV or boat storage lot.

 

[TEFLONSEAN]

Husband died in 1982.

Wife still thinks his 182 is worth 100k+......sitting there growing into the asphalt.

 

[Tom-D]

Not allowed if the airport recieved airport improvement funds from FAA to maintain an airport. It's an airport for airplanes, not an RV or boat storage lot.

The airport can designate any area as parking, and the FAA can't do a blinking thing about it..

EXCEPT,, when the area was improved as a runway, or any other reason the FAA money was requested.
Old ramp areas that are no longer needed as ramp can be converted to the use the airport needs.

 

[FloridaPilot]

I just wish there was a way to buy them cheap and to start a flight school to teach kids how to fly. Unfortunately, the numbers wont work!

 

[AKBill]

I bought a 1965 Beech A23 for $400. No prop or engine. The airport auctioned it and my wife was the only one to bid. She bid $200 and the airport said they wanted what was owed for tie down around $2000. Tami walked away. A week later I called the airport manger acquiring about the A23. Talked him into selling it for $400.

Took me 3 months working weekends to take apart and move to my house. Most of the fuselage will go for scrap aluminum. Wings, tail, landing gear, flight controls all fit my Sport.

I am slowly reworking everything salvageable to use as spare parts for my plane if needed...

 

[TEFLONSEAN]

I just wish there was a way to buy them cheap and to start a flight school to teach kids how to fly. Unfortunately, the numbers wont work!

The wives of the deceased think they are still worth 100k....

Let them keep paying the rent.....until they pass away....then the kids who inherent this crap can pay us to take it off their hands. (After they pay rent for 5 yrs and realize it is worth a dime)

It's all relative....ya just gotta wait for the wings to fall of to find a good deal.

 

[Henning]

In a few of the airports here in Tampa, (Especially KSPG) there are some Piper's and Cessna's in a tie down outside just collecting dust. They are old but are just sitting there collecting dust. Nobody is using them and I feel it's a shame.

Does anybody have any ideas on what to do with old airplanes just sitting there? Maybe some ideas I can submit to the FBO and find some use for them.



As always thanks for your input!!

The FBO is happy to collect rent on them. They are junk if they have been sitting there any amount of time. You can call the owners and talk to them about scrapping them and splitting the proceeds.

 

[Henning]

I just wish there was a way to buy them cheap and to start a flight school to teach kids how to fly. Unfortunately, the numbers wont work!

You could be given the planes, a $100hr grant, and still not be able to make the numbers work. The planes need more work than they are worth to get safe again. You can't leave planes just sit, especially not in coastal Florida.