Any Experience with ArcticAir?

Ted

Ted

The pilot formerly known as Twin Engine Ted
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I'm thinking towards summer. The Aztec has plenty of airflow to keep things cool in the summer, between the fact that it has lots of great ducts and the fact that Piper included the "feature" of lots of air leaks that I have been slowly fixing.

The 310, by comparison, is sealed up tighter than a drum, and is a sauna. Even with tinted windows in back, I was getting too warm yesterday with all the vents open for a bit. For the bit of summer flying I've done with it, it's pretty brutal.

I noticed Wayne suggested the ArcticAir unit at some point, and this looks like it might fit the bill:

http://www.arcticaircooler.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=82

The current draw won't be an issue as the 310 has plenty of juice with its two alternators, and the air conditioning draw won't be any more than the de-ice draw (and I shouldn't need both at the same time...).

Anyone have experience with this unit's effectiveness, reliability, etc.?

I'm also still trying to figure out the best place to put it. I have a few different ideas that I think might work. The biggest trick will be trying not to interfere with the dog cages.
 
My hangar mate,,, the RV-6 in my video, bought one of the smaller units to try and keep his plane cool when he, his wife and small dog visits Phoenix . He says it works ok for about 30 minutes and then all the ice melts and after that it is just dead weight. His trick is to fill it up with ice just before he departs and he climbs as fast as possible up to where it is cool. 12,000+...... FWIW.

Ben
 
N801BH said:
My hangar mate,,, the RV-6 in my video, bought one of the smaller units to try and keep his plane cool when he, his wife and small dog visits Phoenix . He says it works ok for about 30 minutes and then all the ice melts and after that it is just dead weight. His trick is to fill it up with ice just before he departs and he climbs as fast as possible up to where it is cool. 12,000+...... FWIW.

Ben
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My mechanic mentioned a similar experience with one of his other clients. Basically, the unit only cooled from the ramp to the runway.
 
Larger units do pretty well - basically, good for keeping you tolerably cool during load, takeoff and climb. Then you shut off the pump (cold water), and save the remaining ice for descent and maneuvering for landing.

I hope Ken Ibold chimes in - he was one of the first pireps I read on the topic, seemed pretty pleased with it for use in his (then) Lance. Ken's reports, I value.
 
I'd think any Jag mechanic could build one in about an hour, based on the fact that Cutler was able to do it in about a week.

I couldn't build a boy-scout birdhouse with directions on the box, so I bought one off the internet, and found that it worked very well for the time I really need it in the 180. With only one person in the plane, the stream of cold air on the back of my neck makes the cabin reasonably comfortable.

So far I have had sufficient ice for descent and landing, but that may be due to the use of block ice for the majority of the ice load, with only enough crushed ice (and a little water) to keep the secondary coolant temp at a satisfactory level.
 
I used one of the big units in my Lance for a couple of years. I would turn it on during preflight, and get into a coolish cabin, run it until takeoff, then shut it down. On approach, turn it back on when you get the descent and use it one the ground. I would not run it at altitude. I sold it with my airplane. As far as I know the new owner uses it as well. Note this was in Florida. No complaints.
 
I'm now realizing that the link I posted for some reason pointed to the wrong product. I was aiming for the version that actually has real air conditioning, not ice. I'm looking for something that can provide continuous cooling. Keeping things comfy on the ground is a good start, but in cruise the 310 is a real greenhouse. Not enough outside air going through.

If you look at the 400 CFM, 24 Volt, 2 Fan, Real A/C, that's what I was referring to. RAC400-2-24D is the part number.

So, any pireps on that? :)
 
First and foremost, be certain you have a reasonable plan for where you will exhaust the condenser air, and where you'll offload the evaporator condensate.

Also, make certain that you are comfortable with the current draw.
 
The current draw isn't an issue. It's pretty comparable to the current draw when I'm running de-ice. THe bigger question is one of how to deal with the air, yes, and also where to put it.

The 310 has enough juice with its alternators to keep up (it helps having two).
 
I had a smaller 12 volt model (still have it and it's for sale) in my previous airplane.
Last month I flew down to Cordelle, GA where ArcticAir is located and purchased a new 28volt, dual fan (the largest the offer). I live in Memphis and it is inconceivable flying without the Arctic Air! Seriously, it makes a world of difference. I am never cool enough. So when I purchased a 28 volt version for our new plane, I made sure I got the dual fan version. And on a side note, the owner, Greg and Walter (the GM) will bend over backwards to answer questions and explain how the unit works. I am extremely pleased with its cooling ability and their service.

Howard Benz
Memphis
 
Thanks for that great PIREP! We figure we want one for the 310, we'll just have to figure out the specifics of when we buy it.

I might be interested in your 12V model as well, I'll send you a PM.
 
What about filling it with dry ice? It's super cold would last for quite a while?
 
Steve said:
Basically, the unit only cooled from the ramp to the runway.
Click to expand...

When you are flying in Phoenix - especially DVT or PHX where you could be waiting 30 min for IFR release, that thing sounds like it is worth its weight in gold.
 
mhockey21 said:
What about filling it with dry ice? It's super cold would last for quite a while?
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The working fluid with these units is water, and if I recall correctly they actually circulate the melted ice water (you have to start with some water in the bottom of the unit for it to work).

Dry ice is much colder than the freezing point of water, meaning that the working fluid would freeze instead of circulate. No working fluid...no cold air!
 
Steve said:
well, there is that confined space issue...
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Unless you're flying a pressurized plane, in which case you wouldn't need one of these gizmos, I'm pretty sure there are enough air leaks to prevent any problematic CO2 buildups.

This brings up one question, though: For those who use these coolers, do you typically have outside air vents open also, or is it more effective to keep those closed and only have the cooler unit blowing air on you? (Open vents would also tend to minimize any CO2 buildup concerns!)
 
I have used one many times and the tricks are. Use as much block ice as possible (some crushed to fill voids helps) and the least water possible (you'll get plenty of water soon enough). Also as stated before turn off after climb and cooler temps outside, remember to close the vents to help preserve ice. As far as placement the back seat is great if you have a four seater and two people, I've never tried it but sure it would help some from the baggage area.
 
mhockey21 said:
What about filling it with dry ice? It's super cold would last for quite a while?
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Not a good choice. While it is a colder temperature, it has much less heat capacity. Accordingly, it does not absorb as much heat as frozen water does. So, even though it's colder, it won't do as good of a job.
 
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PPC1052 said:
Not a good choice. While it is a colder temperature, it has much less heat capacity. Accordingly, it does not absorb as much heat as frozen water does. So, even though it's colder, it won't do as good of a job.
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CO2 latent heat of sublimation is 571 KJ/Kg
H2O latent heat of fusion is 334 KJ/Kg

YMWV (your mileage won't vary on this one) - just gotta find a working fluid for the CO2 system...
 
So I built my own last summer and it worked pretty good.
This summer I am building version 2.0

Version 2.0 will have plexiglass creating a top compartment and a bottom compartment (not air tight).

With one chamber, the hot air is drawn in and quickly melts the ice.
I will now have the Ice in its own chamber and I am going to make a custom duct that is sealed connecting the fan to the heat exchanger.

So now no more hot air blowing on the ice so it should last much longer and also I can use dry ice as it will dissipate slowly versus just blowing C02 out into the cabin.

Mine is hybrid meaning it can either plug into the plane AC outlet, or run on a 12V battery. I can get about 3 hours out of the battery.

Lastly I discovered by pranking a co worker that you can stick the tip of a compressed air can (like for cleaning computer keyboards) into a coworker's coffee and it will freeze it.

I am going to see if it is feasible to add a tube that goes down into the water and I can shoot a can of compressed air into it. I would think you could bring the water temp back down a bit that way (theory only at this point)

Here is the one I built last summer. Cost about $100 in parts. I am also adding a more powerful fan. The one below is 190 CFM I found one that is 250 drawing only another .5 amps

Also considering making the circulation a closed loop. That way I can use antifreeze and dry ice

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I built one of the ice chest type units a couple of years ago and really love it. I created a web page showing how it was done for anyone who might care to take a look at it. Just google. n8749N. And it should pop up. I get about 38 degree air out of it when it is 85 or 90 outside. Feels great.
 
Am I the only one that finds it hilarious that people will adamantly forgo an air conditioning installation but will throw one of these coolers in the back seat no questions asked ?

For the record a 12,000 BTU A/C system on a Robinson R44 Helicopter comes in at a scant 33 lbs.
 
jaybee said:
Am I the only one that finds it hilarious that people will adamantly forgo an air conditioning installation but will throw one of these coolers in the back seat no questions asked ?

For the record a 12,000 BTU A/C system on a Robinson R44 Helicopter comes in at a scant 33 lbs.
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What does an A/C system installation cost on a GA plane? There is also a drag factor attached to the condenser in the airstream that costs fuel.
 
pfffft.... money - can't take it with ya ;)

(i think the weight complainers was just something I remembered from years ago on the Red Board)
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
So I built my own last summer and it worked pretty good.
This summer I am building version 2.0

Version 2.0 will have plexiglass creating a top compartment and a bottom compartment (not air tight).

With one chamber, the hot air is drawn in and quickly melts the ice.
I will now have the Ice in its own chamber and I am going to make a custom duct that is sealed connecting the fan to the heat exchanger.

So now no more hot air blowing on the ice so it should last much longer and also I can use dry ice as it will dissipate slowly versus just blowing C02 out into the cabin.

Mine is hybrid meaning it can either plug into the plane AC outlet, or run on a 12V battery. I can get about 3 hours out of the battery.

Lastly I discovered by pranking a co worker that you can stick the tip of a compressed air can (like for cleaning computer keyboards) into a coworker's coffee and it will freeze it.

I am going to see if it is feasible to add a tube that goes down into the water and I can shoot a can of compressed air into it. I would think you could bring the water temp back down a bit that way (theory only at this point)

Here is the one I built last summer. Cost about $100 in parts. I am also adding a more powerful fan. The one below is 190 CFM I found one that is 250 drawing only another .5 amps

Also considering making the circulation a closed loop. That way I can use antifreeze and dry ice
Click to expand...

that's very similar to the icebox that I bought from Philip. I'm sure you guys could point out differences, but the principle is the same. They say ice/water is colder, but I run ice packs with water, and it seems to blow around 70F. Not cold, but definitely cool. Considering it reaches 95+F in Georgia summers, I think it works great.
 
jaybee said:
pfffft.... money - can't take it with ya ;)

(i think the weight complainers was just something I remembered from years ago on the Red Board)
Click to expand...

I like being hot, makes it easier to talk girls into stripping down and flying naked more comfortable.:D A/C is way down on my list of what to spend money on. In my current condition, I'm at no great risk of taking money with me.;)
 
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