Any ASR Experience?

[denverpilot]

Separate and unrelated issue. The requirement for holding was in there from the start.

He said "maintained currency". You replied without the full requirements for "maintained currency".

So you didn't answer his question fully. You explained why nav tracking was added, but that wasn't the answer to his question. You can't "maintain currency" without holds.

 

[Tom-D]

He said "maintained currency". You replied without the full requirements for "maintained currency".

So you didn't answer his question fully. You explained why nav tracking was added, but that wasn't the answer to his question. You can't "maintain currency" without holds.

I knew that,, but it hadn't occurred to me that doing the ASR approaches would be OK for the currency, because I do them heads up in VFR, just for training the Approach controller.

 

[gismo]

And holds.

And I still don't see any way to fly a hold without also getting some time at tracking an electronic navigation signal which would seem to make the requirement for the latter rather redundant.

 

[gprellwitz]

And I still don't see any way to fly a hold without also getting some time at tracking an electronic navigation signal which would seem to make the requirement for the latter rather redundant.

That requirement was added in 1978 by the US Department of American Redundancy Department.

 

[denverpilot]

That requirement was added in 1978 by the US Department of American Redundancy Department.

Followed immediately with the Paperwork Reduction Act of 1980.

Coincidence? I think not!

 

[poadeleted20]

I knew that,, but it hadn't occurred to me that doing the ASR approaches would be OK for the currency, because I do them heads up in VFR, just for training the Approach controller.

If you do them "heads up in VFR" they don't count for pilot currency. To count for pilot currency, they must be done under actual or simualted instrument conditions.

 

[poadeleted20]

He said "maintained currency". You replied without the full requirements for "maintained currency".

So you didn't answer his question fully. You explained why nav tracking was added, but that wasn't the answer to his question. You can't "maintain currency" without holds.

The question was, I thought, whether you could maintain currency with only ASR/PAR approaches for the six required approaches, and the answer is yes. The bit about the addition of interception/tracking was just historical information about how that part of the currency requirement came about.

 

[poadeleted20]

And I still don't see any way to fly a hold without also getting some time at tracking an electronic navigation signal which would seem to make the requirement for the latter rather redundant.

Me, too, but someone asked the question about this, and the Chief Counsel said each item (approaches, holding, interception, and tracking) had to be explicitly logged.

 

[Tom-D]

If you do them "heads up in VFR" they don't count for pilot currency. To count for pilot currency, they must be done under actual or simualted instrument conditions.

Well, that splans it, I was right, and didn't know it. I don't log them. I'm just a target for the scope. but its fun, I could do one in actual if I had too, but it would be a bad thing to do and not be current IFR.

But if it is the skin of my sweet cheeks, lets get it done and see if the phone rings.

 

[roncachamp]

I used DF as a topic in my freshmen aviation class. No one had any idea what I was talking about. Our professor told me he hasn't seen or heard of DF in about 15-20 years. I always thought it was a nifty piece of radio tech.

I did not know you could do a DF Approach. All I found was that it was a directional aid for NAV emergencies and for the lost student pilot.

Here's a DF approach:

 

[Fearless Tower]

Beg to differ. They are instrument approaches, but they don't involve the use of navigational systems. So, they count for currency, but not for the long IFR XC for the instrument rating.

Correct and in some cases there are actual published approach plates for them.

Jeppesen publishes actual approach plates for them. I don't know if NACO does, but they at least publish the approach data/mins:
http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1202/SW4RAD.PDF

 

[poadeleted20]

Here's a DF approach:

JOOC, when's the last time that approach was usable?

 

[roncachamp]

JOOC, when's the last time that approach was usable?

Beatsthehellouttame.

 

[BillTIZ]

Here's a DF approach:

Notice it is dated in 1982 !
Looks about right for most DF approaches.

FSS would have the pilot key the mic to get a bearing of the aircraft, then turn you 90 degrees to the bearing and ask your speed, certain minutes later he would ask for another mic hold down and get a new bearing, now he knows your distance from the antenna and he will provide headings to turn you inbound and estimate your arrival time.

Periodic mic keying and heading adjustments to station passage and then the turn to the outbound heading on the approach. Periodic position checks during the approach and heading adjustments inbound to the field.

Now, how many people have completed an airborne directed radar approach.

 

[Tom-D]

Now, how many people have completed an airborne directed radar approach.

me...

but at the time, most reading this would not have had full control of their bladders yet.

 

[Richard]

me...

but at the time, most reading this would not have had full control of their bladders yet.

lol

You're officially old.

BTW: I made a DF steer to intercept a CG vessel on the high seas. It worked perfectly, even taking into account drift.

 

[BillTIZ]

me...

but at the time, most reading this would not have had full control of their bladders yet.

Still taught in USAF in the 80s.
I've done them in T-43, B-52, and B-1B (pre GPS)
We had to build our own procedure based on published approaches and TERPS.

I guess that would make me old too, my daughter was a newborn when I was taught how to do them.

 

[gkainz]

snip ... Now, how many people have completed an airborne directed radar approach.

Not me, but I've controlled a bunch of them from marshall stack to the carrier. Not quite a precision approach, since we were a number of miles away, but close enough to complete the approach visually.

 

[kkoran]

Pueblo, CO has a PAR, but only for military. I wanted to use it as one of my IFR XC approaches and got denied (made it a non-precision instead).

PAR at PUB? When was this?

 

[maddog52]

Notice it is dated in 1982 !

Now, how many people have completed an airborne directed radar approach.

BTDT. B-52G and B-52H

 

[poadeleted20]

Now, how many people have completed an airborne directed radar approach.

I've done ARA's in A-6's and F-111's. IIRC, we had roughly non-precision approach minimums on them.

 

[BillTIZ]

MadDog and Capt'n Ron, all the old warriors are coming out of the woodwork. SAC trained killers.

Yes, non precision minimums, depending on the airfield locations. Most large SAC runways were out in the open, 200ft minimum was normal.

 

[denverpilot]

PAR at PUB? When was this?

I remember there being a radar approach there in the early 90's.

 

[poadeleted20]

MadDog and Capt'n Ron, all the old warriors are coming out of the woodwork. SAC trained killers.

SAC my sweet patootie. There was no "B" in the F-111's I flew. The command patches on my flight suits all had a big sword in the middle. I may be circumcised, but I've never been SAC-umcised.

 

[Mike5250]

Going to key west soon and I'll shoot the ASR approach. My Cfi mentioned it is common at KEYW.

 

[BillTIZ]

SAC my sweet patootie. There was no "B" in the F-111's I flew. The command patches on my flight suits all had a big sword in the middle. I may be circumcised, but I've never been SAC-umcised.

I thought I'd get a rise out of someone


Yes, my flight suit had the armoured fist. Until the "Hostile takeover" that became ACC. We often wondered how it could be "Air Combat Command" when they were not a "war fighting command" and only provided forces to the war fighting CINCs.

I have artwork on the wall, SAC 40 years, "Mission Accomplished".
I retired from AFMC, AFFTC.