Any active/ret. Air Force Pilots out there?
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RotorAndWing
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35 AoA
Pattern Altitude
My point was that we don't spend as much time practicing that skill as you think. The practicing part is for flight school, the FRS, and maybe a couple/three devoted FCLP/CQ weeks out of a year of pre-deployment workups. During that time, we do the exact same stuff that any ACC squadron is doing, 99% of the time. ULT, Airwing Fallon, LFE's, etc etc. On cruise, the only difference is that the beginning and end of the flight is on the ship. No extra looks at the back end of the boat unless you bolter
And to the others, please don't take this as not being on one team.....I actually really like AF guys, and have had great experiences flying with them. Just some good natured ribbing, at least I hope!
But in response to Jim's theory, I suppose that would mean that when I was the FNG, I didn't get a guns kill on a patch wearer in a light grey Eagle within 270 degrees of turn from a high aspect merge? Or that I didn't kill him in the flats on the next set when he decided that he shouldn't keep trying to turn level 2 circle with me? Or that he didn't knock it off for gas to get back to his 12000 ft runway? No, that must have just been a really vivid dream.....:wink2:
Having spent time with both USAF and USN aviation back in the day, a big difference between the two was the basic approach to a flight manual.
The USAF -1 said what you can do in the airplane and everything else is forbidden.
NATOPS said what you cannot do in the airplane and everything else is OK.
What actually happened in the air may have been a different story.
I often wondered about that and eventually determined it reflected the relative history of the services from before the invention of the airplane. And no, I am not that old.
Cheers
The USAF -1 said what you can do in the airplane and everything else is forbidden.
NATOPS said what you cannot do in the airplane and everything else is OK.
What actually happened in the air may have been a different story.
I often wondered about that and eventually determined it reflected the relative history of the services from before the invention of the airplane. And no, I am not that old.
Cheers
I know. My daughter is a Naval aviator and you should see us go at it (in a good natured way)
EvilEagle
Pattern Altitude
Absolutely all in fun.
35: you do realize that "yeah but this one time when I...." story's are just asking for it right? Clearly since you beat that guy, and I won every fight against top gun instructors, we must be the best in the world. I guess we should just hang it up, eh?
35: you do realize that "yeah but this one time when I...." story's are just asking for it right? Clearly since you beat that guy, and I won every fight against top gun instructors, we must be the best in the world. I guess we should just hang it up, eh?
I just finished teaching a group of middle school kids who all want to fly. We took them to the local university which has an aviation program. Unanimously the "Chief Pilot" (Dept co-chair and USAFA grad) & one of the graduating seniors repeated "math math math math math and all the english & writing you can cram".
35 AoA
Pattern Altitude
:wink2: I do feel the anecdote was relevant in this instance though.
And since you mention it, I didn't win those sets out of superb airmanship....if anything I did a lot of things that an experienced Hornet/SH guy would have made me pay for. I'm truly not good at BFM, at least compared to the guys who are good at it. I think it was just a matter of fighting a guy who had never fought a Hornet before. My moves were all smoke and mirrors, but it worked. Had he been the kind of Eagle guy who does things like split throttles, I think I would have been hosed.....
RotorAndWing
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silver-eagle
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Someone has to be the best... But I think he was countering the intended slam against Navy pilots and not boasting.
Then again... But this one time....
Some other time.
ClimbnSink
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Greg
Hence explaining why some want to believe the FAA is operated like the Air Force.
That explains a lot.
JimNtexas
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Jim - In Texas!
Nobody 'slamed' Navy pilots. I just pointed out a simple fact because so many of our Navy friends go on and on about how hard it is to land on a boat, like landing on a boat somehow helps them win a fight.
Landing on a boat is hard. Very hard. Probably the most difficult maneuver routinely done by any flying organization anywhere. The time spent training for such a difficult task in the Navy is used by the Air Force to train to fight. That's a fact.
As far as my friend above who got a shot on an F-15. I'm impressed. When I was in Europe a Navy pilot was able to shoot an RF-4C right off a tanker! Even more impressive!!!
I was in a flight of two EF-111's, two F-4G's, and two F-111A's and we got good shots on a fracking Navy SHIP!
Another time I used the sensors in the EF-111A to detect a submarine coming home to Scotland. We found it with just a bit of conning tower out of the water and were able to peform a welcoming low pass. Being an EF-111A we could not of course actually hurt anyone, but an Aardvark low pass is an impressive sight to see.
Witmo
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Tim
...
As far as my friend above who got a shot on an F-15. I'm impressed. When I was in Europe a Navy pilot was able to shoot an RF-4C right off a tanker! Even more impressive!!!
...
I saw where the Navy pilot in that incident not too long ago was selected for admiral. I don't know if the appointment ever made it through Congress. I knew the backseater in the RF-4C and I bet he was livid. The Navy pilot had a relative (father) in high places. He should have served some time in Leavenworth breaking big rocks into small ones, not going to War College.
Witmo
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Good. Here's hoping he's not nominated again.
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'Varks got off a shot? That *is* surprising. Most any Navy ship should've been able to outmaneuver youI was in a flight of two EF-111's, two F-4G's, and two F-111A's and we got good shots on a fracking Navy SHIP!
Nauga,
and another 40 acres
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35 AoA
Pattern Altitude
I don't think any of us truly think that. Perhaps the impression has been made, but I think you would be hard pressed to find a guy who really believes that. It does allow us to do our mission, as in power projection from the sea into enemy airspace, but it is just a tool required to do that.....not an actual tactical feat. And to be quite honest, there has never been a time while behind the boat at night when I have thought to myself "man, I am so glad I do this and am not some AF dude landing on a 12000 ft runway".....it is just painful and sucky. Night cat shots are even worse....
Shepherd
Final Approach
Come on, guys. Don't make me be the one to say it, because I've got nothing against Buff drivers.
OK fine.
"OMG! The dreaded 7 engine approach!"
Glenn
16th TFS, 33rd TFW
'71-'73
PS: I got to be the entertainment for an SNJ crew from the Kittyhawk when they were returning me to my outfit after I went for a swim in the South China Sea. That damn catapult REALLY leaves an impression when you are too stupid to cinch up tight, as instructed. They were laughing so hard I can't for the life of me figure out how they were flying the plane.
OK fine.
"OMG! The dreaded 7 engine approach!"
Glenn
16th TFS, 33rd TFW
'71-'73
PS: I got to be the entertainment for an SNJ crew from the Kittyhawk when they were returning me to my outfit after I went for a swim in the South China Sea. That damn catapult REALLY leaves an impression when you are too stupid to cinch up tight, as instructed. They were laughing so hard I can't for the life of me figure out how they were flying the plane.
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Everskyward
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So do I. I also have to say that while I have seen this Navy vs. Air Force teasing, and maybe more serious than teasing, in real life, I as a civilian can't really tell the difference when flying with someone from the Navy vs. Air Force. Military pilots, at least the ones I've flown with in a crew, tend to have a good feel for the airplane as I would expect.
Of course I'll get in trouble for saying this...
RotorAndWing
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So do I. I also have to say that while I have seen this Navy vs. Air Force teasing, and maybe more serious than teasing, in real life, I as a civilian can't really tell the difference when flying with someone from the Navy vs. Air Force. Military pilots, at least the ones I've flown with in a crew, tend to have a good feel for the airplane as I would expect.
Of course I'll get in trouble for saying this...
As with anything, you will have the bad with the good. Fact is the military does produce some below average pilots from their ranks, just as does the civilian world. It really comes down to the individual.
Everskyward
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True. But I have probably only flown with about five. It's not like we have a huge employee pool.
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Velocity173
Wait a second. I thought all you guys just grabbed the "towel racks" and let the computers take care of the cat shots.
Been a while since I watched this but its fun to be a fighter pilot, even if you are French.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_VtgDfL3Eg&feature=related
Cheers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_VtgDfL3Eg&feature=related
Cheers
35 AoA
Pattern Altitude
Wait a second. I thought all you guys just grabbed the "towel racks" and let the computers take care of the cat shots.
For the actual ride down the cat track, yes.......but you quickly grab the stick as soon as it gets off the end. That isn't the part that sucks/is scary though. It is the blackest place in the world on cat 1/2 at night, and you just get shot into a black hole, so you pretty much just pray that everything will work right because you have about 2 seconds to eject if it doesn't, and you really have no visual cues other than the airspeed indication in the HUD. That is the part that sucks. On a night trap/approach, at least you have control over your destiny
denverpilot
Tied Down
Never thought about that. I know how dark it is in the middle of the ocean at night, but never thought about being launched out into that blackness. Wow. Interesting mind's eye picture, merging the two.
Thanks for serving y'all.
Threefingeredjack
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I used to get a weird feeling when launching at night, because once off the flight deck we were stable, (theoretically
) and the boat was moving about all axis. And of course lifting off in a helo is MUCH less violent.....in fact we rarely even spilled our lattes'........
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Velocity173
I imagine the Somatogravic Illusion has claimed it's share of Naval Aviators through the years. It would suck if the jolt takes the AI out on the stroke. Crap!
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35 AoA
Pattern Altitude
Obviously some nights are better than others, but most of my time in tension at night consists of this:
run up signal.....
run motors to mil, wipe the hell out of my controls, take my time looking at engine instruments, set the radalt for 40' which will tell me if I am about to die....
bring the launch bar switch up, put my head back, flick the pinky switch to turn on my exterior lights, put hands on racks
sit there for an eternity staring off into the black hole and thinking "this is horrible, why am I agreeing to fly into this?"
then my thoughts are suddenly stopped by the hand of god throwing me forward, and throwing my legs into my lap
Right hand slams both throttles into full blower quicker than you can imagine, and probably almost pushes them into the instrument panel I am hitting them with so much force
Pray that nothing goes wrong
As soon as I feel the rough gravel road give way to smooth flying, gear and flaps come up and I thank God for another night of being alive
run up signal.....
run motors to mil, wipe the hell out of my controls, take my time looking at engine instruments, set the radalt for 40' which will tell me if I am about to die....
bring the launch bar switch up, put my head back, flick the pinky switch to turn on my exterior lights, put hands on racks
sit there for an eternity staring off into the black hole and thinking "this is horrible, why am I agreeing to fly into this?"
then my thoughts are suddenly stopped by the hand of god throwing me forward, and throwing my legs into my lap
Right hand slams both throttles into full blower quicker than you can imagine, and probably almost pushes them into the instrument panel I am hitting them with so much force
Pray that nothing goes wrong
As soon as I feel the rough gravel road give way to smooth flying, gear and flaps come up and I thank God for another night of being alive
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Velocity173
Obviously some nights are better than others, but most of my time in tension at night consists of this:
run up signal.....
run motors to mil, wipe the hell out of my controls, take my time looking at engine instruments, set the radalt for 40' which will tell me if I am about to die....
bring the launch bar switch up, put my head back, flick the pinky switch to turn on my exterior lights, put hands on racks
sit there for an eternity staring off into the black hole and thinking "this is horrible, why am I agreeing to fly into this?"
then my thoughts are suddenly stopped by the hand of god throwing me forward, and throwing my legs into my lap
Right hand slams both throttles into full blower quicker than you can imagine, and probably almost pushes them into the instrument panel I am hitting them with so much force
Pray that nothing goes wrong
As soon as I feel the rough gravel road give way to smooth flying, gear and flaps come up and I thank God for another night of being alive
Lol! Excellent description. Flew out to the Stennis back in 99' to see how CATCC was done on the ship. Got to see Tomcats! Anyway leaving in the C-2 I remember the crew chief telling us to cross our hands over our chest and put our heads down. I said forget that, I wanna see this. That cat shot put my head down! Pretty sure they're not getting slung off as fast as you guys either.
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I remember my first Cat Shot in the back seat of a Tomcat on a Fam Flight. The Pilot briefed the procedure for a cold cat shot as hearing him call EJECT EJECT EJECT, pull the curtain and hope the boat doesn't run over you. He also said I would not hear the second two ejects since he would be going up the rails after the first. My first check was to make sure the ejection sequencer was set for BOTH (IIRC).
Cheers
Cheers