Anti-collision lights during daytime.

Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Light and Sporty Guy
OK, I will say up front, Master on, Strobe on, Fuel on, Mags on, throttle closed, choke on...

I dutifully flip the switch on every time I start the engine and assume that something good will come of it.

But, I don't recall EVER actually seeing a strobe / beacon lit up on some other airplane in flight during the day. Night, dusk, yea. If it's dark enough, they show up.

Have any of you ever actually noticed the light before you saw the airplane?

Does it really make any difference to anything (other than being in the rules)?

Or, is there some secret club that I don't know about where everyone turns off the light after takeoff?
 
I was told by at least three CFIs to turn the beacon on (but not the strobe) before engine start, as a warning to anyone nearby on the ramp that the plane's on and the engine will be started. And yes, I still yell, "CLEAR!" before starting. I don't turn strobes on until I'm at or near the hold short line -- one of my final pre-takeoff checks.

In the club 172, no one ever turns the beacon off. When the master is on, so is the red blinky.

But I don't think I have ever seen another airplane during the day because of lights, except for once. I was in the pattern and another student was inbound, he turned on his landing light for extra visibility since it was hazy. That worked.
 
Having replaced my landing light with an LED unit, I keep it on continuously. I figure that it can't hurt, it is very bright, the current draw is minimal (1.3 amperes) and it will last about three times as long as the average airframe. And I have noticed other landing lights from far away in the daytime.
 
IMO even with good eyes you'll only spot a strobe when it's too late to matter during a hot summer day here in Texas.

Ryan
 
The meaning I've always heard associated with lights:

Position Lights:

The plane is powered. Useful to be able to look at your plane from the FBO and tell if you left the battery master or APU on. The position lights are operated by the battery master switch. There is a switch for the position lights, but I guess it's just there for mechanics to use in troubleshooting...I don't know. Never flipped it.

Beacon:

The engines are running or about to be running. Turned on in the 'Before Start' checklist and turned off in the 'After landing' checklist.

Storbes (Anti-Collision):

Turned on when cleared by tower to enter the runway for flight. Some eager beaver FO's like to turn them on when crossing runways as a sign that they can identify the difference between a runway or taxi way. The best thing to do is smile at them.

After takeoff Strobes are to be turned off at night whenever you enter a cloud and think the lightning just got 'really bad...and really close too'. Preferably before you pee yourself and demand an imeadiate vector from ATC away from a 'crazy big Thunder Storm at your 12 O'Clock!!!'. Once the strobes are turned off for this reason they are not to be turned on until the next flight.

Landing Lights:

Surprisingly, these can be used for takeoff too. I know...who knew?

Taxi Lights:

If you fly a plane with these then sit back and live the dream. You've made it big fella!

Wing Inspection Lights:

I've never heard a good explanation of what these are used for.

Logo Light:

This is a light to indicate to other pilots the mood of the pilot group.

Logo Light on means the pilot group is happy. They will go the extra mile to get the company aircraft moved to the destination. No obstacle is too big to make the customer happy.

Logo Light Off means the pilot group is ****ed. Management is looking for concessions or they will have to furlough. A/B fund is being eliminated and trip rigs are no more. Pilots get in the plane looking for whats wrong with the plane and no writeup is too small to ground the plane. Logo lights have not been turned on at any US carrier since 2003.
 
AIM 4-3-23:

"c. The FAA has a voluntary pilot safety program, Operation Lights On, to enhance the see-and-avoid concept. Pilots are encouraged to turn on their landing lights during takeoff; i.e., either after takeoff clearance has been received or when beginning takeoff roll. Pilots are further encouraged to turn on their landing lights when operating below 10,000 feet, day or night, especially when operating within 10 miles of any airport, or in conditions of reduced visibility and in areas where flocks of birds may be expected, i.e., coastal areas, lake areas, around refuse dumps, etc. Although turning on aircraft lights does enhance the see-and-avoid concept, pilots should not become complacent about keeping a sharp lookout for other aircraft. Not all aircraft are equipped with lights and some pilots may not have their lights turned on. Aircraft manufacturer's recommendations for operation of landing lights and electrical systems should be observed."

Bob Gardner
 
Captain said:
Storbes (Anti-Collision):

Turned on when cleared by tower to enter the runway for flight. Some eager beaver FO's like to turn them on when crossing runways as a sign that they can identify the difference between a runway or taxi way. The best thing to do is smile at them.

After takeoff Strobes are to be turned off at night whenever you enter a cloud and think the lightning just got 'really bad...and really close too'. Preferably before you pee yourself and demand an imeadiate vector from ATC away from a 'crazy big Thunder Storm at your 12 O'Clock!!!'. Once the strobes are turned off for this reason they are not to be turned on until the next flight.
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:rofl:
 
The FAA requires anticollision lights to be on " when the pilot-in-command determines that, because of operating conditions, it would be in the interest of safety to turn the lights off."

Note that it says nothing about being in flight or being day or night or being on an active runway. Now I'll buy the no strobes in the clouds and the no strobes while holding short of the runway at night, but in the day time, there's little reason not to run them from start up.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
But, I don't recall EVER actually seeing a strobe / beacon lit up on some other airplane in flight during the day.
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During my PP oral exam, the issue of lights on during the day came up, and I said they weren't required but I would turn them on for flight safety. The DPE rolled his eyes and said he was part of a lengthy study on the subject several decades back (the 1960's I think) and they found lights on during the day didn't make aircraft more visible at all. Zero improvement over unlighted aircraft. He seemed adamant that it was a pointless exercise, and contrary to the claims in the AIM, there wasn't any evidence to support turning on lights during the day to enhance see-and-avoid. On the contrary, all that is accomplished is to reduce the real useful life of incandescent lights for the dark periods when you really need them. Obviously those with LED lights can turn them on to their heart's content.
 
Nav lights only are required at night.

Anti collision lights are required at all times (unless determined it would be safer not to).

This isn't some advisory from the AIM. It's not some study by some unnamed source, it is the FAR.

Yes, to be effective in the day as real anticollision lights especially at high closure rates, they need to be way brighter than would be practical operating at night. But, as others pointed out, but the FAA bowed down to ALPA and the NTSB and at least required you to turn on what you got (even if they were ineffective).
 
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> Have any of you ever actually noticed the light before you saw the airplane?

Yes (for PulseLights & HIDs). The experience motivated me to install and HID
landing light and LED taxi light.

On hazy days, I notice tower strobes before I notice the tower(s).
 
flyingron said:
The FAA requires anticollision lights to be on " when the pilot-in-command determines that, because of operating conditions, it would be in the interest of safety to turn the lights off."

Note that it says nothing about being in flight or being day or night or being on an active runway. Now I'll buy the no strobes in the clouds and the no strobes while holding short of the runway at night, but in the day time, there's little reason not to run them from start up.
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My plane's "required equipment list" does not require operational anticollision strobes during day VFR or IFR operations. They are required to be installed/operational at night.
 
I was told by a prominent member of this forum, to turn on the strobe switch and leave it on. Let the next owner be the next one to turn it off if he chooses.

I get comments often saying something like "I never saw a 140 with strobes before." The funny thing about that comment is that when I'm with the Cessna140 club people, their planes almost ALWAYS have strobes.
 
Jim Logajan said:
On the contrary, all that is accomplished is to reduce the real useful life of incandescent lights for the dark periods when you really need them. Obviously those with LED lights can turn them on to their heart's content.
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Very good point. Although my LED has already paid for itself (not to mention the the time it takes to replace the light over and over), it's the peace of mind knowing there's one less thing to worry about when I walk out to pre-flight my airplane.
 
Now that we've added the LED landing and taxi light (and per Captain's note, I guess a 182 counts as "made it" then? ha...), I just leave everything on.

Exceptions are taxiing when another aircraft is likely to be caused a problem by your strobes, and weather conditions. Also won't turn the landing/taxi combo on until ready to move, if marshallers are present.

So usually it's beacon on prior to start, ready to roll, the LEDs, and crossing the hold line onto the runway, the strobes. Nav lights are saved for night ops only, since they're still incandescent right now, but I'll thrown them on in bad weather too.
 
A useful experiment to do during pre-flight in the sunlight is to notice how close you have to get to clearly see the position and strobe lights; walk a bit away and see whether you think they make the airplane more visible.

Consider the wording of 91.209(b) and the discretion it allows, given that needlessly burning the useful life of filaments in incandescent lamps is not always in the interest of safety. On the other hand, my understanding is that that discretion was likely put in there to cover other situations, such as strobes in fog or to avoid blinding others while on the surface at night.
 
wsuffa said:
My plane's "required equipment list" does not require operational anticollision strobes during day VFR or IFR operations. They are required to be installed/operational at night.
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You plane's MEL doesn't override the fact that the FARs require them to be operated day or night if you've got operational ones.
 
Would anyone here consider a beacon on to be in compliance with the requirement for "anti-collision" lights?

Beacon: Red flashy thing, usually on the the belly and / or top of the fuselage.

Strobes: White blinky things, usually on the wing tips.


Or is it everyones position here that the Strobes (see official definition above) must be on for all phases of aircraft operation?
 
While the flashing beacon is on from start-up to shut-down, I never turn on the strobes until I take the runway, and they go off as soon as I clear the runway. If you've ever been parked next to another plane which has its strobes on (even in daylight), you'll understand why I do that. Even if your strobes are your primary anti-collision lighting system, the reg which requires your anti-collision lights to be on during all operations including ground ops (91.209(b)) has an exception allowing them to be off "when the pilot-in-command determines that, because of operating conditions, it would be in the interest of safety to turn the lights off." Since I think preventing flash-blindess is "in the interest of safety," I leave them off when I'm on the ground (other than on the runway).

Of course, some air carriers have rules in the FOM requiring "strobes on" all the time, but that's beyond my control and I hate it when they pull up next to me and start flash-blinding me.
 
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  • Beacon always left on.....
  • Strobes on when on the runway (or crossing) and in flight
  • landing/taxi light on in airport environment even if over flying, switched off when I reach cruise
  • nav's on at night,start up to shut down and daytime poor visibility conditions (east coast haze)
 
Captain said:
Would anyone here consider a beacon on to be in compliance with the requirement for "anti-collision" lights?

Beacon: Red flashy thing, usually on the the belly and / or top of the fuselage.

Strobes: White blinky things, usually on the wing tips.


Or is it everyones position here that the Strobes (see official definition above) must be on for all phases of aircraft operation?
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The Beacon should meet the requirements as an anti-collision light.

But on my ride, the strobe (mounted on top of the vert. stab.) is the only light on the outside of the airplane. So that is what I turn on.

(On the inside there is a back-light on the radio display and the transponder has a flashie light, and I think some gauges may have lights that are not hooked up)
 
I like to leave the beacon on at all times, if for no other reason than it reminds me I left the master switch on when I'm walking away from the airplane.
 
bobmrg said:
AIM 4-3-23:

"c. The FAA has a voluntary pilot safety program, Operation Lights On, to enhance the see-and-avoid concept. Pilots are encouraged to turn on their landing lights during takeoff; i.e., either after takeoff clearance has been received or when beginning takeoff roll. Pilots are further encouraged to turn on their landing lights when operating below 10,000 feet, day or night, especially when operating within 10 miles of any airport, or in conditions of reduced visibility and in areas where flocks of birds may be expected, i.e., coastal areas, lake areas, around refuse dumps, etc. Although turning on aircraft lights does enhance the see-and-avoid concept, pilots should not become complacent about keeping a sharp lookout for other aircraft. Not all aircraft are equipped with lights and some pilots may not have their lights turned on. Aircraft manufacturer's recommendations for operation of landing lights and electrical systems should be observed."

Bob Gardner
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So that time I (forgot and) ran the landing light until I was arriving at SBY to meet Ron, I can claim I was observing Operation Lights On. That's good to know.
 
denverpilot said:
Because a beacon *is* an anti-collision light in the regs.
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Okay, that's the way I read it too. I guess I thought I was seeing a trend in the thread that strobes were required on at all times and I was debating jumping in on that.
 
Captain said:
Okay, that's the way I read it too. I guess I thought I was seeing a trend in the thread that strobes were required on at all times and I was debating jumping in on that.
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Some aircraft don't have a beacon, and the strobes are utilized in lieu of the beacon as their only anti-collision lights.
 
I flew a Warrior that had the strobes and beacon wired to a single switch, which I found to be annoying for the fact the strobes were always on with the beacon. I wished the owner would allow a split switch be installed, but no joy. I always keep the beacon on on my Cherokee.
 
My landing lights only operates when the gear is down (it's attached to the gear itself and yes there's a switch like in a fridge that turns them off when the gear is raised).
However, landing lights are purely recommended. As I stated, the anticollision lights (ALL OF THEM) should be operated at ALL TIMES unless you have a good safety of flight (like you don't want to blind the guy on final approach or you're in the clouds) to not use them.

That's the rules.
That's the only thing that makes good sense.
 
flyingron said:
My landing lights only operates when the gear is down (it's attached to the gear itself and yes there's a switch like in a fridge that turns them off when the gear is raised).
However, landing lights are purely recommended. As I stated, the anticollision lights (ALL OF THEM) should be operated at ALL TIMES unless you have a good safety of flight (like you don't want to blind the guy on final approach or you're in the clouds) to not use them.

That's the rules.
That's the only thing that makes good sense.
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By 'all of them' I'm assuming you mean beacons and strobes. I've never seen any airline taxi around with the strobes on. It doesn't happen. They do have their beacon on though.

As far as flight goes. My plane has a 3 position switch. OFF - GND - AIR

OFF is Off, GND is beacon only, and AIR is strobes only.
 
Here's what I was taught for daytime flying and continue to do on a C172SP:


  1. Beacon on before prime and engine start.
  2. Taxi on right before I start taxiing.
  3. All lights on right before takeoff.
  4. Taxi and landing off at 1000 feet (except closed pattern).
  5. Taxi and landing on as part of my pre-landing checklist (all lights are now on).
  6. Everything but beacon and taxi off after clearing the runway.
  7. Shutdown, master off, turn off all the light switches at some point as I'm putting the plane away.

Not sure if all this is necessary, but it's what I was taught and I do it out of habit.
 
I was taught with the phrase, " lights, camera, action" right before takeoff. My course of action right after I'm given take off clearance is to turn the landing light and strobe lights on, flip the transponder from standby to on and takeoff. I was also taught that the beacon is an indication of an occupied plane and that the engine is either running or soon to be running.

This is all day time flying and usually only if I'm leaving the airport environment and not just doing pattern work.
 
Beacon on before start till shutdown, strobes on taking the runway and off leaving, langing/taxi on flying in airport environment or night with navs. BTW we have the new whelen led's for beacon, landing/taxi and tail. You can see it during the day (the beacon is so bright you don't want to stare at it even in daytime). Whelen will be having new strobe/nav light led's coming out this fall...can't wait.
 
Thread creep, but the AIM says unless told otherwise by ATC, transponder operation is now ON at all times also.

I was also taught Lights, Camera, Action, but it's becoming only a final check on the transponder and lights...

It's really only a callout for a last-minute runway heading to DG check at this point, considering the recommended changes in operating procedures in both the regs and the AIM.

Since I have two anti-collision devices, I will probably continue not to switch on the strobes on the taxiway, but this thread has me thinking about it...

It's probably not going to blind anyone during the daytime, and seeing strobes bouncing off the end of the hangar row at night is just another way for other ground traffic to really be able to see that an aircraft is about to appear from between the hangars if they're crossing at the row end. That along with a really brightly lit up swath in front of me from the LEDs.

Lights on always unless it's going to be a safety issue, is starting to make a lot of sense.

Plus, I have original Cessna strobes. They're not that bright. Airliners and some newer aircraft or ones with retrofit stuff on them... those kids have some blasters.
 
denverpilot said:
Thread creep, but the AIM says unless told otherwise by ATC, transponder operation is now ON at all times also.
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Really? Start-up to shutdown? This is the first I've heard of this. I was taught transponder to STBY until immediately before takeoff to immediately after clearing the runway post-landing.

I'm aware that certain airports (i.e. BOS and PVD) have ground RADAR that requires the transponder to be left on. I was told that PVD mentions this in the ATIS. How about non-towered airports that don't have RADAR coverage on the ground anyway.

I just want to make sure I'm doing the right thing.
 
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MassPilot said:
Really? Start-up to shutdown? This is the first I've heard of this. I was taught transponder to STBY until immediately before takeoff to immediately after clearing the runway post-landing.

I'm aware that certain airports (i.e. BOS and PVD) have ground RADAR that requires the transponder to be left on. I was told that PVD mentions this in the ATIS. How about non-towered airports that don't have RADAR coverage on the ground anyway.

I just want to make sure I'm doing the right thing.
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This is a fairly new recommendation for transponder usage - the AIM explanations of changes section indicates that document was changed February 9, 2012.

As to thread creep - the original post asked "Have any of you ever actually noticed the light before you saw the airplane?"

Instead of getting "yes" or "no" answers, people have been reporting their procedures or citing alleged authorities. I'm also guilty of not answering that question.

So - in the day I don't recall ever seeing the light before I've seen the aircraft.
 
Okay, to answer the question, daytime... only really big aircraft with monster lights. Otherwise, no. But... Once the aircraft is seen, the strobes sometimes help keeping it in sight if it's in ground clutter or a cloud (flat) backdrop.

Nighttime, definitely. Many many many miles away.
 
Daytime, I've picked up a few landing lights or strobes.
A lame rotating beacon, NEVER. (And I don't leave mine on as a "master" indicator because I'm pretty sure I wouldn't notice by the beacon that I'd left it on. Especially when walking away from the plane [and closing the hangar door behind me].)
 
Captain said:
By 'all of them' I'm assuming you mean beacons and strobes. I've never seen any airline taxi around with the strobes on. It doesn't happen. They do have their beacon on though.
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By all of them, I mean all of the installed anti collision lights.
And having been based at IAD for ten years I can tell you they most certainly do use all of them.

As I said, you can argue a safety issue of leaving the strobes off on the ground, but that's your only out in the regs. Otherwise, you are expected to run them when ever you're moving.
 
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