Another wannabe pilot walks into the room...

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Christian Rogers

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Christian Rogers
Good afternoon guys.

I am hoping to start flight training early next year. In the mean time I am studying ground school topics and just trying to learn what I can while setting aside cash to let me finish my PPL all at once. The current plan is to start flying once I have about half of the money needed set aside.

So for ground school: Is it necessary to purchase one of the many courses available, or could I learn the material adequately by studying the FAA books (Pilots Handbook, Airplane Handbook, AIM) plus the operator's manuals that go along with the plane I will be using?

Also, is is feasible to complete ground school and the written exam prior to beginning actual flight training?

Any insight would be appreciated.

Chris Rogers
Birmingham, AL
 
M2C - being a student that is almost finished. I did the written test first, studying over the winter and taking the test in early spring. That gave me 100% of my time in the good flying weather to spend in the plane. I actually found it helpful to be as prepped as possible with the knowledge from taking the written test. Yes, you do need to take a certified course to prep for the written test, like Gleim (which is what I used), Kings (another very popular one), or a few others (Sporty's, etc.). The OTHER reason you do that is that you need a certificate of "ready to take the test" to be able to take the test. The on line classes will give you a "final prep test", and if you pass that you will be given a certificate to print out and bring to the testing facility.

You could go another route, and that is paying the CFI to coach you, but that will be more $, you can't study on your own, etc. Honestly, the on line courses are fairly good and with all of the You Tube videos available for free (Cindy's is great) you're covered.

BTW - get your 3rd class medical now. Review the requirements very carefully, and call AOPA medical assistance with any questions. I did that, as well as got a complete physical from my doctor prior to the AME visit just to cover the bases. You do NOT want to be surprised, and you want to make sure you've rectified anything you can before you get checked out. (Getting your BP under control, etc.)
 
It's not a question of being feasible but if it is a good idea, and IMHO it is not. Get a few hours of training before digging into the knowledge test...then what you are studying will make more sense. Insofar as home study vs a ground school vs a course it is a matter of your learning style. The vast majority of the courses do just one thing....prepare you to pass the knowledge exam; they do not scratch the surface of making you a pilot. There are a number of good books written by instructors like me for just that purpose. Check out my signature block.

Bob Gardner
 
Great input! Thank you.

Is there a danger to going directly to the AME prior to having another Doctor check me out? If the AME discovers something that is easy to correct, will it be harder to then get the certificate?
 
PS after reading the reply from WDD' you DO NOT have to take a certified course. Pilots have aced the written using home study and a signoff to take the written from their CFI.

Bob Gardner
 
The AME is the "final exam". If he/she finds something, it's not like you can come back later for a "retest". If they find something and you need a special issuance, then you're headed down that very expensive path. If they disqualify you, you're kind of really stuck, and getting that fixed - if possible - is thousands of dollars and a lot of time.
 
Christian Rogers said:
Great input! Thank you.

Is there a danger to going directly to the AME prior to having another Doctor check me out? If the AME discovers something that is easy to correct, will it be harder to then get the certificate?
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Get your medical done ASAP before you waste any time or effort on training.

In my experience, an AME isn't there to do a full checkup. All the times that I have gone to an AME he/she reviews the paperwork, checks BP and goes through the history with you if there are any things they have questions about. Should be maybe 30-45 minutes tops if you don't have any conditions that need discussing. If you do, then as long as they aren't disqualifying you get your medical cert right then.

Do NOT go the AME unless you are sure you are going to pass. Getting a fail is a MAJOR problem.

Anything your primary care physician diagnosed should be in the report beforehand.
 
Yes, that is what I meant by "you could go another route with the CFI". He/she will give you the certificate to take the written.
 
Christian Rogers said:
Great input! Thank you.

Is there a danger to going directly to the AME prior to having another Doctor check me out? If the AME discovers something that is easy to correct, will it be harder to then get the certificate?
Click to expand...

Best practice if you suspect that you have any disqualifying medical conditions (go to www.faa.gov, regulations, and drill down to Part 67 to see what those are), go to an AME FOR A CONSULTATION. Do not let the AME fill out any forms to submit to the FAA or you will be locked in. The purpose of the consultation is to ensure that you have no disqualifying conditions....then pay the nice doctor again and take your flight physical. The "danger" lies in the fact that if the AME finds a disqualifying condition it is in your record forever and it takes many months and dollars to fix it, if it is fixable at all.

Bob Gardner
 
Christian Rogers said:
Thanks! I just checked the medical standards on the FAA website at:

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/aam/ame/guide/standards/

For 3rd Class, I am well within limits for all the criteria based on my most recent physical and eye test.
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Keep in mind the form asks HAVE YOU EVER IN YOUR LIFE on your medical history.

So it is a bit more than just your most recent visits to your primary care doctor.

Some new airmen gloss over this and truthfully mark yes to an item without knowing that it is something the FAA wants to know a lot more about than "it happened XX years ago, but I am okay now". Then find themselves in a major and expensive snafu to satisfy the FAA.

So make sure you're fully aware of how your complete medical history, even as a young kid, plays a part of obtaining your medical certificate.
 
Great! Go or it, and enjoy life free as a bird.

Bob
 
Christian Rogers said:
Thanks! I just checked the medical standards on the FAA website at:

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/aam/ame/guide/standards/

For 3rd Class, I am well within limits for all the criteria based on my most recent physical and eye test.
Click to expand...

I’ve had more in-depth physicals for high school sports, the thing with the FAA is they are about 60 years behind modern medicine, kinda puritanical and a yuuuuuge government bureaucratic dumpster fire, so if anything doesn’t check the box just right it’s gojng to be a complete nightmare even if you’re healthy as a horse.

Just go to a AME that you’d like to use, ask for a FULL mock medical, basically it’s the test you’d normally get BUT YOU DONT GIVE THEM A MED EXPRESS NUMBER, if you fill out the online app and get the number and give it to them, EVERYTHING in that exam is now “on record” so to speak. I’d also ask around the airport for what AME folks like.

After that go start training, find a CFI you click with, the CFI is by and far the most important part of your training, it’s like a tattoo artist, don’t look for the shop, find the best artist and go to the shop they are at, again ask around the airport and here for a referral.

Get the written done before your practical test, that’s it, don’t worry about getting it done before training, bad idea actually, easier to learn ground as you do air work, the king videos have produced excellent results for my students and well as myself.

Try to learn to fly in a glider or tailwheel, don’t look for the easiest plane to fly, find the one that builds the best foundation, flying a 172 for training is like picking a university based on which one has the easiest tests to pass.
 
James331 said:
the CFI is by and far the most important part of your training, it’s like a tattoo artist, don’t look for the shop, find the best artist and go to the shop they are at,
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@Christian Rogers --- Big BIG emphasis on this point....

I am currently nearing the end of my commercial pilot training. Over the years since starting my aviation journey, I have flown with many instructors. All were good people and good teachers. But the ones that I really clicked with were the ones I learned the most from and made the fastest progress with.

So in addition to your "homework" of getting your flight medical done and done properly on the first throw, your next assignment is to find the right instructor that is the best possible fit for you and your way of learning.

If you let us know where you are located, perhaps one of the PoA gang might have an instructor recommendation or two to give you a good start.
 
Christian Rogers said:
Good afternoon guys.

I am hoping to start flight training early next year. In the mean time I am studying ground school topics and just trying to learn what I can while setting aside cash to let me finish my PPL all at once. The current plan is to start flying once I have about half of the money needed set aside.

So for ground school: Is it necessary to purchase one of the many courses available, or could I learn the material adequately by studying the FAA books (Pilots Handbook, Airplane Handbook, AIM) plus the operator's manuals that go along with the plane I will be using?

Also, is is feasible to complete ground school and the written exam prior to beginning actual flight training?

Any insight would be appreciated.

Chris Rogers
Birmingham, AL
Click to expand...

Hello Chris,

I would advise you to have all the money you anticipate saved for pilot training before you begin for two reasons. It is likely you underestimated the amount required and flight schools provide pie in the sky values as to the real cost. The regulations require 40 hours, the reality is the average student today arrives for the test with more than 60. To minimize your training expense, any break in training will cost you more money. So you want to be able to train 3 days a week and have the money to finish. The flight test will cost you $500 and the written test $150.

For ground school you have options, you can attend a normal ground school or do a home study course. The home study course may be purchased or you may use FAA handbooks. All the FAA handbooks May be downloaded for free.

If you have a quality ground school in your area, I recommend you attend ground school. If not I recommend you download the materials and do your own study. You will get the written test endorsement from your CFI.

The biggest misconception about any home course is you can buy course, get the endorsement to take the test and you are done. The FAA does not allow a student to train himself via books or videos without zero instructor interaction. The CFI endorsing you for the test is at minimum is required to review your home training with you before endorsing you for the flight test. That meanS he will discuss the minimum topics and log this as ground training.
 
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Hi, Chris,

I'm personally a big fan of the "do flight training and ground training in parallel" approach. Read about a thing on Tuesday, then fly on Wednesday and experience the thing you just read about, which solidifies the thing much better in your brain and muscle memory. That being said, everyone is different and has different life constraints and learning habits, so there's no one "best" way that works for everyone. Do you already have a lot of practice at learning things from books on your own? (I personally, do much better being guided through it by a fellow human, someone like John and Martha King.).

Best of luck!
 
kath said:
Hi, Chris,

I'm personally a big fan of the "do flight training and ground training in parallel" approach. Read about a thing on Tuesday, then fly on Wednesday and experience the thing you just read about, which solidifies the thing much better in your brain and muscle memory. That being said, everyone is different and has different life constraints and learning habits, so there's no one "best" way that works for everyone. Do you already have a lot of practice at learning things from books on your own? (I personally, do much better being guided through it by a fellow human, someone like John and Martha King.).

Best of luck!
Click to expand...

Tell Chris how much a King Course costs.
 
MIFlyer said:
$398? https://www.kingschools.com/courses/private-pilot/default.asp?sco=WB&scu=YSCORP&msclkid=d5df6a0bde9011a4609b37a36891d86e&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Brand - King Schools&utm_term=king schools private pilot&utm_content=King Private Pilot

It's a good investment and will save you some hours with the instructor, so your time with him/her can be helping the things you really don't get.

i'm puttering on IR and am finding the King course amongst the best, for me. You can go on youtube and find some example clips. I just think they explain things really well.
Click to expand...

Is his CFI required to review the King Course with Chris before he is endorsed for the practical test?
 
The CFI needs to sign off that he/she has prepped you for both the oral and practical test. Part of that is that he/she is required to review any questions you missed on the written test, regardless if you studied via on line or in his/her ground school.

That prepping does not require the CFI using the online King Course. You will be prepped for the oral and practical test regardless if you took the on line course or the CFI ground school.

In my case, the prepping will involve a mock oral interview.
 
WDD said:
The CFI needs to sign off that he/she has prepped you for both the oral and practical test. Part of that is that he/she is required to review any questions you missed on the written test, regardless if you studied via on line or in his/her ground school.

That prepping does not require the CFI using the online King Course. You will be prepped for the oral and practical test regardless if you took the on line course or the CFI ground school.

In my case, the prepping will involve a mock oral interview.
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61.105 Aeronautical knowledge.
(a)General. A person who is applying for a private pilot certificate must receive and log ground training from an authorized instructor or complete a home-study course on the aeronautical knowledge areas of paragraph (b) of this section that apply to the aircraft category and class rating sought.



61.103 Eligibility Requirements - General
d) Receive a logbook endorsement from an authorized instructor who:

(1) Conducted the training or reviewed the person's home study on the aeronautical knowledge areas listed in § 61.105(b) of this part that apply to the aircraft rating sought;

To meet the requirements of section 61.1 03( d), an applicant must provide a logbook endorsement from an authorized instructor who either conducted the training or reviewed the applicant's home study curriculum that applies to the aircraft rating sought, and the instructor must certify that the applicant completed the appropriate ground-training or home-study course. That is more than a mock oral and reviewing the questions you missed - although many CFIs don’t know this is a requirement and the DPE is not required to police it.
 
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Christian Rogers said:
Great input! Thank you.

Is there a danger to going directly to the AME prior to having another Doctor check me out? If the AME discovers something that is easy to correct, will it be harder to then get the certificate?
Click to expand...

Yes. Let me rephrase that. YES!!
 
Before your check ride be able to answer or have knowledge of every thing in the ACS related to private pilots.
 
I researched a lot into home study ground programs and went with Gleim 'cause they offered the most stuff for the money (not only online courses but books, flight bag, e6b, etc.) so for me they worked out well.
I thought I would do as you suggested, get all the ground knowledge and test out the way and start flying but around section 2 or 3 of the ground stuff, I realized I had no idea what I was studying about. I am very visual and hands on, I need to see the actual airplane, be able to touch the controls, fiddle with the gauges, etc, in order to retain the knowledge. So I started flying on weekends and did ground during the week.
But the 40-hour requirement is misleading, I was nowhere near ready to take the check ride, not even at 60 hrs :(
We all go at different pace, don't be surprised if you need 60-70 hours to complete.
 
I also used Gleim, mainly because it fit my learning style. I like digging into a book, highlighting, taking notes, etc.

Found it also dated though. In hindsight I could have skipped learning how to use the EB6 hand held slide rule for example.

For instrument - when I get there - I think I'll experiment and try the King course. I also can take notes from a video. Must just be how I learned to learn those many years ago when you had to read the book and go to class. Bottom line - use what method works best for your style(s).

For me it was invaluable to have all of the ground / written test knowledge under my belt. Made the flying a LOT easier, knowing what the CFI was referring to, etc. Knowing the book before coming to class makes it sink in a lot better. I read / study on my own time and save the money to pay for ground time with my CFI for such things as how to do a proper NavLog, how to file a flight plan, how to get the frequency for flight following and where it doesn't work, etc.

As far as the number of hours, 1) who cares how long it takes you - it's not a contest. 2) The average is somewhere around 65-70 hours. Sounds like you're right in the ball park - nothing "wrong" with how you're coming along IMHO / FWIW.
 
I always did better with home study . Highlight what you don’t truly understand and spend some time with a good CFI.
 
Props for the best thread title in a long while!

I have no insights that others haven't offered. Just had to comment on the creative title.
 
I concur with getting your Medical done ASAP. I can also attest to getting an AME consultation BEFORE doing the actual exam, which i did NOT do. My AME exam was on 6/14 and after several more tests and back-and-forth with the FAA, my 3rd class medical is finally "in the mail" today - 5 month delay in my flight training. Good luck with your training!
 
bobmrg said:
PS after reading the reply from WDD' you DO NOT have to take a certified course. Pilots have aced the written using home study and a signoff to take the written from their CFI.

Bob Gardner
Click to expand...

Bob's point is right. However I prefer a certified course like the King school PPL training. Don't need to buy the deluxe kit, just their basic PPL training. They have lots of memory tricks that are corny but helpful. You don't need it, but it makes life easier. Also King always has a 20-22% off sale every balck Friday season.
 
When it comes finding the cfi time, find a good one, one that loves teaching and when he cuts himself he bleeds 100LL... i couldnt agree more with the suggestion of a taildragger, i know nothing of a glider first hand, but a low powered taildragger will teach you piloting skills a 172 or Cherokee 140 never will... they will be skills you will treasure no matter what you end up flying...
 
Hey there! Hope you'll be joining us up in the sky, you are right to be joining forums like this and talking to other students and certificates pilots as part of your preparation to make flight training decisions.

All in all, I see no bad advice here from any of the previous posters. I would definitely encourage you to get at least a bit of flight time while you're doing your ground studying before going for any manner of exam. It's one thing to read a book and regurgitate answers to test questions from memory. It's a very different thing to actually see and feel what's going on in flight and be able to APPLY what you've studied. I feel that that's very important to completely understanding what you're learning, and no book alone can ever prepare you for an exam.

Also, I just wanted to touch on the medical aspect of things...WHAT EVERYONE HERE HAS SAID IS VALID AND TRUE. BE CONFIDENT THAT YOU WILL PASS, OR DON'T DO IT. What I haven't seen anyone mention, however, is something I would like to remind all potential pilots of: the availability of a sport pilot certification.

A sport cert does not require a medical at all--it comes with it's limitations (no night flying, no IFR, no more than one passenger, aircraft weight specifocations), but it is something that is also very cost-effective, also. However, if you were to fail a medical FIRST, before going for a sport pilot cert, you likely would be denied.
 
Clip4 said:
Is his CFI required to review the King Course with Chris before he is endorsed for the practical test?
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I've done two study courses (commercial and instrument) and never talked to a CFI. You print out the signoff, but it won't print until you have answered every question at least once.
 
BrianNC said:
I've done two study courses (commercial and instrument) and never talked to a CFI. You print out the signoff, but it won't print until you have answered every question at least once.
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The private won’t let you print until you’ve passed a sample written test and reviewed your wrong answers.

But I guess clip knows more than my DPEs and the people at the test centers that allowed me to take the written (with just the printed endorsement from the software) do and my certificates are null and void since my CFI never signed an endorsement of the endorsement I got from the software.
 
OP, remember to always be the Captain of your own life. In this case, that means not being steered into the wrong direction by outsiders.
Lots of good advice here, knowledge is great, keep learning, and remember that not all instructors are good, or bad, but you have to find the right person for you.
Don't be railroaded into taking someone because some flight school said "This is going to be who you get". Probably nothing else along the path to becoming a Pilot is more important than YOU picking out the right instructor for you.
We all make choices, some people will agree with you, others will tell you that what you are doing is all wrong. Again be the Captain of your own life. Many people tried telling me to just follow the path most others took to becoming a pilot. I didn't, but did it my way, I was 18 then, turn 49 in a couple of weeks, and zero regrets looking back. I put as much effort into picking my instructor, as I did into what airplane to purchase, because both could help make or break how it went. School one I went into, they had two instructors, neither one was even close to what I wanted in an instructor. Drove down the road a ways, got to school number two, it had a much better vibe, the lady who greeted me showed me around the place, friendly, answered my questions, and introduced me to the only instructor who was there at the time. We chatted some, he took me out to the ramp and told me how they work, and as we talked, the owner/instructor was just taxiing in, I got the opportunity to meet him briefly. Back inside I was offered a coffee, and to wait for their third instructor to land, and meet her. It gave me the opportunity to meet several students who were flying with them, and eventually the last of their three instructors. I left there feeling great, drove down to the last school at the airport, it was somewhere between schools one and two for the feeling I got from them. I met their two instructors, and the one had a short opening in his schedule, so I took them up on their offer of a short familiarization flight. It was "okay", but not the right fit for me. I drove back to school number two, was again greeted warmly, and I asked when I could schedule a familiarization flight with them. She looked over the schedule, and said that evening the owner was available to tske me up. I left and went back many hours later, had a pretty good flight in their warrior. I was asking him about the lady instructor on staff, I met her for only t minutes, but she and I seemed to click. He offered up some information about her, and said that when we land he would check her schedule. Well I booked another familiarization flight with her for the following evening, we went up in their 172 this time, and I knew 3 minutes after we took off I had found my instructor. Now I told her that I had bought a 172, it was in getting some work done, but would be ready to fly soon, and asked if she would like to be my instructor. She replied " Heck ya, I would love to do that ". Done deal, and we flew often, I a few times flew with the other two guys there, partly because I like to get others opinions and skills, but also sometimes I just really wanted to fly and she was busy/sick/away, but primarily I flew with her. We often flew in the evening as her last flight of the day, and would then grab dinner together, we became friends as well, and she is still a friend to this day.
Long story I know, but pick the right person for you, and don't let some stranger decide who you will get stuck with.
 
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